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Old 12-10-2001, 10:13 AM   #1
2.5GT
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Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Olney, MD. Work in McLean, VA
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2000 Celica GT-S
Spectra Blue

Default Project Frankensubie almost complete - RE: SOHC swap

As a lot of you guys know, I've decided to replace my 97 GT motor with a couple of blown headgaskets with a 01 Legacy GT motor. Well, the project is almost complete and the car is almost fully functional.

A preliminary drive of the car showed NO CE lights or problems whatsoever!! I just need a new cam gear and timing belt from a SOHC legacy motor which should arrive tomorrow morning. I'm hoping to take delivery of the vehicle by tomorrow night.

I'm so stoked!!!

Jason
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Old 12-10-2001, 12:25 PM   #2
nuburu2
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98 BK-GT White
'97 SVX Ebony Pearl

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Cool Jason! I'm sure all of us DOHC folks have had the same concerns when reading about catastrophic failures of the Phase1 motors. I'm even more interested in your butt-dyno impressions of the improved lower end torque delivery of the Phase2. Please do us all a favor and write the whole process up in detail to share. We'd all be in your debt!

Glenn O
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Old 12-10-2001, 12:50 PM   #3
2.5GT
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Quote:
I'm sure all of us DOHC folks have had the same concerns when reading about catastrophic failures of the Phase1 motors.
Yup, from headgasket problems to piston slap, DOHC engines have gotten some pretty bad reputations. That was definitely my concern. But damn, I love the LOOK of the car!!!

I'll have to talk to my mechanic more about the details, but here is what I remember (when I mention DOHC, I'm referring to 2.5L engines, but I have a feeling the 2.0L engines are no different):

1. Intake manifolds - DOHC manifolds fit DOHC heads. SOHC manifold fit SOHC heads. This holds true for ALL EJ-series engines. However, I believe all heads bolt onto all blocks.

2. Throttle Position Sensor - the TPS is much more complex on the DOHC engines than the SOHC engines. Have a feeling this is related to the difference in MAF/MAS systems utilitzed on the engines. The TPS sensors are NOT compatible.

3. Throttle Bodies - 00-on SOHC engines (not sure about the 99's) have the IAC integrated into the throttle body, whereas the DOHC engines have the IAC integrated on the intake manifold. Since the TPS sensors are incompatible, I could not use the throttle body off the new engine, and the DOHC throttle body did not bolt onto the SOHC intake manifold. Therefore, I needed to use a throttle body off a 95 impreza 1.8L engine - it has the same bolt pattern as the SOHC throttle body, and has provisions to use the more complex TPS sensor.

4. Crank sensor - DOHC engines use a 11-tooth design whereas the SOHC engines use a 2-tooth design (I heard the 99 SOHC engines also use an 11-tooth design, but I have not confirmed this). The 95 Impreza also had an 11-tooth design which is compatible with the DOHC ecu and built for a SOHC engine. Thank God!

5. Cam Angle sensor - Again, sensor tooth patterns were different between the SOHC and DOHC engines. My trusty 1.8L impreza came to the rescue by donating it's camshaft position sensor. We found that the passenger side camshaft pulley on the new engine was cracked and also needed to be replaced. However, the 95 impreza pulley was too wide and had an extra lip on the edge which rubbed against the head. Therefore, it would not accomodate the timing belt of the newer engine (which is thinner than both the DOHC and 95 1.8L timing belts). So, a 01 legacy camshaft pulley is on order along with a new timing belt. The cam sensor pulley did not have the extra lip so it still can be used with the newer timing belt.

6. Exhaust manifolds - Interchangeable between the DOHC and SOHC 2.5L engines. This is about the ONLY part of the swap that was straightforward

7. Power steering lines - The ps lines needed to be "coerced" around the newer, and wider fuel injectors. Nothing a little bending with a rubber mallet and flat head screwdriver couldn't fix. These were later "modified" even more to accomodate the resonance tube protruding from the intake. I'm considering getting a Cobb tuning intake anyway, so this might be a moot point

So far, so good. If I think of anything else, I'll post it here.

I'd say that this is a much cheaper route than buying a wiring harness and ecu for the new engine (which would also require a new air box and MAS sensor - my engine didn't come with either), and DEFINITELY CHEAPER than it would cost to get a Subaru dealership to change the headgaskets!! The going rate for replacement is $2200-2500 around these parts. I spent $1500 for an engine with 5K miles on it and another $150 on various other parts to get it running. I'd say I cam out on top!!

Glenn O, as soon as I get the car back I'm gonna see about finding another 97-99 GT in the area to run a few standing start "comparisons". Better than a butt dyno, IMHO. BTW, I get to keep the 6500rpm redline

Jason
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Old 12-10-2001, 01:00 PM   #4
nuburu2
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Thanks Jason. A couple of questions for clarity. So you're using SOHC heads and manifold? How do you keep the 6500RPM redline? Sounds like you made out like a bandito picking up that hardly used motor for that price!

Glenn O
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Old 12-10-2001, 01:14 PM   #5
2.5GT
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Here's the breakdown:
SOHC heads and Intake Manifold
Phase 2 block
1.8L throttle body, crank sensor, and cam angle sensor
97 DOHC ecu (hence the 6500rpm redline), wiring harness, and MAF sensor
Everything not mentioned is off my 97.

Yeah, I got lucky with finding that engine. It'll have less mileage than when I bought the car (used with 26,000 miles).

Jason
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Old 12-10-2001, 10:34 PM   #6
Legacy GTR
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What are you doing with your old engine? If you want to sell it for cheap I'll take it. I want an extra so I can take it apart, learn about it, possibley for a spare if I blow up mine.
Let me know,
Mike
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Old 12-11-2001, 08:05 AM   #7
2.5GT
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My old engine has a blown headgasket. I've posted on the mid-atlantic forums about selling it for $150 (Christmas money). I wasn't planning on sending it but if there aren't any takers down here I'd be willing to ship it as long as you add shipping to that price.
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Old 12-11-2001, 09:09 AM   #8
lucien2
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kewl......did you consider swapping in a WRX motor? I guess the plumbing would have been a nightmare.
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Old 12-11-2001, 09:25 AM   #9
2.5GT
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I thought about it, but then the cost of a wrx swap would have totally been more than the SOHC swap. I'd have to buy more parts along with have this rental car for much longer than I've had it already

As much as I would like a turbo legacy, I think I might stay N/A!

Jason
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Old 12-11-2001, 12:20 PM   #10
Legacy GTR
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That's actually a lot cheaper then I expected. What all does that include? I might even come down a get it. I'll lety you know.
Mike
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Old 12-11-2001, 12:43 PM   #11
2.5GT
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Still has:
Intake Manifold
DOHC heads, cams, etc.
Throttle Body
Block
Oil Pan
Pulleys (although I may be selling the Crank pulley)

It's missing:
TPS
MAF sensor
ECU
Wiring harness
IAC
EGR valve
fuel vapor canister (coal filled)
and peripherals (PS pump, Alternator, Condensor)

I have to get in touch with someone in the area who got in touch with me yesterday, but I'll let you know if that falls thru.

Jason
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Old 12-13-2001, 03:14 PM   #12
copec
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Default about the engine

have you sold it yet?

$150 sounds pretty reasonable, do you know if it is just a blown head gasket or if the heads or cracked or anything?

regards
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Old 12-13-2001, 03:26 PM   #13
2.5GT
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I've told this to everyone who's interested that I'll have to run a pressure test, just to make sure. If they turn out fine, then I'll prolly factor that into the cost of the engine (not sure how much the test will cost).

Jason
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Old 12-13-2001, 03:51 PM   #14
GTBGUY
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'98 QS Legacy L (auto)

Smile I'll take 'em!

2.5GT - Jason, I'll take your DOHC EJ25. Need it for a little experiment (That is if the local guy falls through)
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Old 12-14-2001, 09:26 AM   #15
2.5GT
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I should be talking to the local guy this afternoon/evening. If that falls through I'll post sometime this weekend.

Jason
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Old 12-15-2001, 01:28 AM   #16
miksmi
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Jason, who's your mechanic? I'm around the corner from you in Silver Spring. Thanks.

..Mike Smith

PS - Saw you in the Saturn on Sunday at the Six Flags auto-cross. (I was spectating.) I kept thinking, who in their right mind would auto-x what appeared to be a stock Saturn? Monday I caught your thread in Mid-A. Way to go!

Last edited by miksmi; 12-15-2001 at 01:36 AM.
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