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Old 04-21-2007, 02:49 PM   #1
Jimmy S.
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Default Critique my computer build (Oh NOEZ! Not another one!)

My P4 is dying rather quickly. I have upgraded this bastard to the max and cannot get anymore juice out of it. This is looking to be a mid to upper end gaming machine that has to last me a bit (I pulled 5 years out of this P4 with only minimum upgrades here and there)

Quote:
NZXT DUET BLK Black SECC Steel/ Aluminum HTPC Mid Tower/ Desktop Computer Case - Retail

CORSAIR XMS2 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model TWIN2X2048-6400C4 - Retail

(2) PNY VCG88GTS32XPB GeForce 8800GTS 320MB GDDR3 PCI Express x16 HDCP Video Card - Retail

Thermaltake Purepower RX W0144RU ATX12V 600W Cable Management / Active PFC / 14CM Fan / Quad +12V Power Supply - Retail

Arctic Silver Ceramique Thermal Compound - OEM

ASUS P5N-E SLI LGA 775 NVIDIA nForce 650i SLI ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail

Thermaltake CL-P0310 120mm CPU Cooling Fan - Retail

Intel Core 2 Duo E6700 Conroe 2.66GHz LGA 775 Processor Model BX80557E6700 - Retail

Subtotal: $1,412.93
Add or subtract something? I have Hard Drives, CD roms, etc etc already.

-JS
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Old 04-21-2007, 03:36 PM   #2
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Seems kinda lacking in the power for 2 8800s
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Old 04-21-2007, 03:46 PM   #3
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Take out one of the video cards, and lower the power supply if you want (Min of 350 watts.)

I don't know what screen you are running, but I was able to run at full resolution and full specs at 1920x1200 with a e6400 and a 7950GT. SLI doesn't really make sense with how fast stuff is. Just sell your card and get a faster DX10 card in six months when the new ones are out with better features then what is out there now.
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Old 04-21-2007, 03:46 PM   #4
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Wait a few days and the E6700 will be down to $315 or so.
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Old 04-21-2007, 05:04 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mxer View Post
Seems kinda lacking in the power for 2 8800s
In what? Processor? I didnt want to step up to the extreme as the 400 bucks for HT just does not seem right. The Quads are too freaking crazy right now in price so I settled with the 6700...which seems good enough.

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Originally Posted by StuBeck View Post
Take out one of the video cards, and lower the power supply if you want (Min of 350 watts.)

I don't know what screen you are running, but I was able to run at full resolution and full specs at 1920x1200 with a e6400 and a 7950GT. SLI doesn't really make sense with how fast stuff is. Just sell your card and get a faster DX10 card in six months when the new ones are out with better features then what is out there now.
I run two 21" widescreen viewsonics. I really want the 8800 technology so maybe I will drop a GTS and get the GTX 640. I have read that the sli is faster though but that would save me what....200 bucks?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mac35 View Post
Wait a few days and the E6700 will be down to $315 or so.
Nice...you have some inside information?

I was planning on buying next week.

Thanks for the info and keep it coming. It will be my first build in like 4 years.

-JS
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Old 04-21-2007, 05:13 PM   #6
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SLI is faster, but it isn't fast enough for what you get. SLI is more for farther down the road when you want a faster card, but can't afford it, so you get a second card and run this to get faster frame rates. The problem is, since SLI is out there, the older cards are still expensive, and you can sell your "old" card and get a new one which is faster than the SLI one you would, and save money.

Get a faster card and you'll still be able to run max settings at 1680x1050 too. People run SLI to go "hey, I have a gaming computer!" when it doesn't do much unless you're pushing some huge real screen real estate on a really crappy video card/processor combination. When you switch the card out, get a new PSU too, 450 is really the max you'll need unless you're running a ton of hard drives.
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Old 04-21-2007, 05:18 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StuBeck View Post
SLI is faster, but it isn't fast enough for what you get. SLI is more for farther down the road when you want a faster card, but can't afford it, so you get a second card and run this to get faster frame rates. The problem is, since SLI is out there, the older cards are still expensive, and you can sell your "old" card and get a new one which is faster than the SLI one you would, and save money.

Get a faster card and you'll still be able to run max settings at 1680x1050 too. People run SLI to go "hey, I have a gaming computer!" when it doesn't do much unless you're pushing some huge real screen real estate on a really crappy video card/processor combination. When you switch the card out, get a new PSU too, 450 is really the max you'll need unless you're running a ton of hard drives.
Awesome. Thanks for the tips. That description of SLi makes sense.

-JS
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Old 04-21-2007, 07:06 PM   #8
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Yeah, SLI is at the extreme end of performance, better off with ONE top of the line card than two mid-high level ones. My OC'd 1900xt ran as fast as a buddy's SLI setup. There's far more sane ways of improving performance.

Not sure about it's applicability with that CPU but look at the newest MB's that run even faster memory and FSB speeds.
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Old 04-21-2007, 08:34 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mxer View Post
Seems kinda lacking in the power for 2 8800s
Agreed, lose the Thermaltake and buy a Power PC and Cooling. Actually, if you want to go top end...
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=108088

Other than that, I would say buy a 6400, save some money (and spend it on the PSU) and overclock it
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Old 04-21-2007, 08:39 PM   #10
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PC Power and Cooling is overpriced for what it is. They are great power supplies, but they make it seem like you need WAY more to power your system then you really do.
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Old 04-21-2007, 08:41 PM   #11
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I didn't know there was a 650i mobo. I have the 680i, it's not bad. Few bugs for the first month or so, but after an update it's been fine. I have the GTX vid card, and the same cpu. It runs all games on max settings, I love my setup. I have the PC Power and Cooling PSU, and it's been great so far.

My current rig:

Code:
Case	Coolermaster RC-830-SSN2-GP CM Stacker 830 Aluminum Full Tower Case (Silver) Retail ***Free Shipping***	$239.99 
PSU	PC Power & Cooling Silencer 610 EPS12V EPS12V 610W Continuous @ 40C Power Supply - Retail	$169.99 
Motherboard	EVGA 122-CK-NF68 nForce 680i SLI Socket 775 1333MHz DDR2 - 1000 Extreme Overclocking Motherboard Retail ***Free Shipping***	$249.99 
CPU	Intel Core 2 Duo E6700 Conroe 2.66GHz LGA 775 Processor Model BX80557E6700 - Retail	$509.99 
RAM	Corsair TWIN2X2048-6400C4D 2GB DDR2-800 XMS2-6400 Dominator Series Memory Retail ***Free Shipping*** 	$294.00 
Hard Drive	Western Digital Raptor WD1500ADFD 150GB Serial ATA 10,000RPM Hard Drive w/16MB Buffer ***Free Shipping*** 	$220.90 
Video Card	EVGA 768-P2-N831-AR GeForce 8800 GTX 768MB GDDR3 PCI Express Video Card w/Dual-DVI, HDTV-Out Retail ***Free Shipping*** 	$599.99 
Sound Card	Creative 70SB046A00000 7.1 Channels PCI Interface Sound Blaster X-Fi XtremeGamer Fatal1ty Professional Series - Retail	$125.99 
DVD	SAMSUNG 18X DVDR DVD Burner With 12X DVD-RAM Write, LightScribe Technology Black IDE Model SH-S182M/BEBN - OEM	$32.99 
OS	Microsoft Windows XP Pro SP2b 1pk w/Upgrade Coupon for Vista - OEM	$139.99
Are you still coming out here in early May?
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Old 04-21-2007, 09:09 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StuBeck View Post
PC Power and Cooling is overpriced for what it is. They are great power supplies, but they make it seem like you need WAY more to power your system then you really do.
I agree, and you can get top quality components, but you have to know what youre looking for.
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Old 04-21-2007, 09:32 PM   #13
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Why run 800mhz RAM on a 1066 FSB? Price?
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Old 04-21-2007, 10:38 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by MistaOctamopus View Post
Why run 800mhz RAM on a 1066 FSB? Price?
The jump in price is like 200 bucks!

-JS
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Old 04-21-2007, 11:12 PM   #15
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That's what I figured. I had an unlimited budget when I bought my machine, so I didn't look at prices other than what the best prices I could get for what I want. Not the best way to buy computers, but my machines last at least 5 years. Since people are posting their specs, this is what I built. I dunno what it cost, and I wouldn't want to know.

Intel QX6700 Extreme overclocked a tad at 3ghz
1KW PC power and cooling PSU (I've maxed it out with USB devices.... seriously)
eVGA 680i
4GB corsair Dominator 1066 memory
2x 8800 eVGA 8800 GTX superclocked AC3s
2x Raptor 150gb 10k RPM drives (1 for xp and for vista. if vista proves to be as crappy as it has been going it will turn into a media drive to run animation frames off of)
2x 500gb WD caviars
Digidesign Mbox2
2x Gateway 24" widescreens
3d Connexions spacepilot
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Old 04-22-2007, 02:57 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MistaOctamopus View Post
That's what I figured. I had an unlimited budget when I bought my machine, so I didn't look at prices other than what the best prices I could get for what I want. Not the best way to buy computers, but my machines last at least 5 years. Since people are posting their specs, this is what I built. I dunno what it cost, and I wouldn't want to know.

Intel QX6700 Extreme overclocked a tad at 3ghz
1KW PC power and cooling PSU (I've maxed it out with USB devices.... seriously)
eVGA 680i
4GB corsair Dominator 1066 memory
2x 8800 eVGA 8800 GTX superclocked AC3s
2x Raptor 150gb 10k RPM drives (1 for xp and for vista. if vista proves to be as crappy as it has been going it will turn into a media drive to run animation frames off of)
2x 500gb WD caviars
Digidesign Mbox2
2x Gateway 24" widescreens
3d Connexions spacepilot
Nice. If I was running protools I would have opted for a Mac though.

-JS
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Old 04-22-2007, 12:38 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MistaOctamopus View Post
Why run 800mhz RAM on a 1066 FSB? Price?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy S. View Post
The jump in price is like 200 bucks!

-JS
I'd go full bore on the RAM myself. Going cheap(er) on an initial build just means that it's behind the power curve right off the bat.

You're spending over $500 on your video cards, but going slightly bargain on the MB and RAM. Step up, spend the dosh.

Single 8800GTX for performance and simplicity though.

Last edited by richde; 04-22-2007 at 01:51 PM.
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Old 04-22-2007, 01:27 PM   #18
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Most ram will support the 1066 bus. , there really isn't a reason to spend the money.
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Old 04-22-2007, 01:49 PM   #19
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the new ati videocards are coming out sooner then later. They are siad to be very sweet and they might be cheaper then the 8800s.
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Old 04-22-2007, 01:53 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MistaOctamopus View Post
That's what I figured. I had an unlimited budget when I bought my machine, so I didn't look at prices other than what the best prices I could get for what I want. Not the best way to buy computers, but my machines last at least 5 years. Since people are posting their specs, this is what I built. I dunno what it cost, and I wouldn't want to know.

Intel QX6700 Extreme overclocked a tad at 3ghz
1KW PC power and cooling PSU (I've maxed it out with USB devices.... seriously)
eVGA 680i
4GB corsair Dominator 1066 memory
2x 8800 eVGA 8800 GTX superclocked AC3s
2x Raptor 150gb 10k RPM drives (1 for xp and for vista. if vista proves to be as crappy as it has been going it will turn into a media drive to run animation frames off of)
2x 500gb WD caviars
Digidesign Mbox2
2x Gateway 24" widescreens
3d Connexions spacepilot
I do believe that cost over 10k
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Old 04-22-2007, 01:59 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sokarul View Post
the new ati videocards are coming out sooner then later. They are siad to be very sweet and they might be cheaper then the 8800s.
If performance and price are somewhat similar and you're running dual monitors, Nvidia has the edge on user friendliness. Moving an application from one monitor to another is one click through Nvidia's software, where ATI requires reducing from full screen, dragging the window, then maximizing.

If past models are any sign of what's to come, don't buy an ATI card without carefully shopping and selecting a good after market H/S. The X19xx series cooler sounds like a hair dryer AFTER you ramp up the fan to actually keep the card somewhat cool through an external application.
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Old 04-22-2007, 02:06 PM   #22
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Agreed on waiting a bit on the CPU price drop Intel has announced. It should be coming soon. Also double check whether that's a good power supply, I've heard Thermaltakes get mixed reviews (some good, some bad). I'd suggest a Corsair HX power supply (they make a 520 and a 6something).

Also, why AS Ceramique? Go with AS5.

Finally, take a look at the airflow in your case, it might be wiser to get a tower CPU cooler that uses a fan that blows with the direction of air in your case, not at a right angle to it. I'm using a Noctua U9F and the fan blows from the front to the back, where about 4 inches away a 120mm exhaust fan is sucking air out.

And finally, my opinion, I'd step down the RAM speed and get more RAM. At least you're buying a case that's a lot cheaper than mine

I spent about $1600 on hardware for this:
E6600
4x1GB DDR2 675 Corsair XMS2 (~$320)
nVidia 7950GT
160gb + 400gb drives
Corsair HX 520 power supply
Dual NEC AD7170A optical drives
Noctua U9F cooler
Lian Li PC-V1100BPlus II case (~$340)

Coulda saved a bunch if I had the opticals and hard drives already, but what I had was older and hard drives have improved in speed considerably from when I built my P4 system.
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Old 04-22-2007, 02:50 PM   #23
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Ditch the E6700. You can get the E6600 for less than half the price. If for some crazy reason you run into CPU limited tasks all the time, overclock it.

I can't see getting the thermaltake heatsink. Their design philosophy on the whole sucks. Made the mistake of buying one of ther volcano 12's a couple years ago. I am currently using a Zalman CNPS9500. Nothing but praise... quite and cools the hot running FX-53 quite nicely.

No experience with the Thermaltake power supplys. Not sure I'd spend that much money with them though considering their cooling solutions. I have had a high end Enermax pop on my before, but have had no problems with the OCZ GameXStream 600W (cheezy name aside...) Modular cables are nice and all, but I'd rather just spend the time doing proper cable management.

Cases are a personnal preference, but I'd suggest getting something with two 120mm fans instead. I've gotten used to the drone of multiple 80mm fans, but the computer I'm putting together for someone else right now has me envious of the lack of noise. I personally love the Lian-Li cases... light and subtle styling.

Don't bother with SLI unless you plan on dropping huge amounts of money on a nice monitor. Stick with a single GTS: it will get you into the 1920x1200 range in all games just fine.

Also, there is no need to go with the ceramique. Any decent aftermarket cooler ships with thermal paste that does just fine. If you want it for the sake of having a ceramique fine, but it's not going to give you huge gains.

Loren
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Old 04-22-2007, 02:55 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lorenkb View Post
Ditch the E6700. You can get the E6600 for less than half the price. If for some crazy reason you run into CPU limited tasks all the time, overclock it.

I can't see getting the thermaltake heatsink. Their design philosophy on the whole sucks. Made the mistake of buying one of ther volcano 12's a couple years ago. I am currently using a Zalman CNPS9500. Nothing but praise... quite and cools the hot running FX-53 quite nicely.

No experience with the Thermaltake power supplys. Not sure I'd spend that much money with them though considering their cooling solutions. I have had a high end Enermax pop on my before, but have had no problems with the OCZ GameXStream 600W (cheezy name aside...) Modular cables are nice and all, but I'd rather just spend the time doing proper cable management.

Cases are a personnal preference, but I'd suggest getting something with two 120mm fans instead. I've gotten used to the drone of multiple 80mm fans, but the computer I'm putting together for someone else right now has me envious of the lack of noise. I personally love the Lian-Li cases... light and subtle styling.

Don't bother with SLI unless you plan on dropping huge amounts of money on a nice monitor. Stick with a single GTS: it will get you into the 1920x1200 range in all games just fine.

Also, there is no need to go with the ceramique. Any decent aftermarket cooler ships with thermal paste that does just fine. If you want it for the sake of having a ceramique fine, but it's not going to give you huge gains.

Loren
agreed on the thermaltake thing.
I had a volcano 6cu+ ages ago on my xp1800+

their philosophy on cooling is this:

design a medium sized heatsink with lots of flow restriction so you get good thermal conductivity for the volume.

then stick a ****ing gigantic fan that pushes 75+CFM at 70+ dba on there so you can dissipate a decent amount of heat.

its loud, and it sucks.

I just got a ripoff of the zalman for my switchover from watercooling (another costly mistake, I lost a 7600GT to a leak and ****loads of money selling all my parts on ebay for a 30% loss )
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Old 04-22-2007, 03:05 PM   #25
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Yep. "It's loud and it sucks" sums it up. Their rating of 48db for the volcano 12 is a joke. I think your assesment of 70 db is a bit closer

I had to be careful where I put my microphone, otherwise all that came across was the damned fan (not even set at the highest setting mind you...)

Loren
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