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Old 04-21-2007, 11:13 PM   #1
Davenow
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Default OL/CL delay... I havent kept up. Give me lowdown (07 FXT)

Ok so we all know by now (or should) that you shouldnt do a downpipe on an 04+ WRX without EM, as its dangerous.
And we also know that the 04-05 STI does not have the same issue, and CAN safely run a downpipe sans EM.

I havent kept up beyond that. I would assume the WRX is the same, but what about the forester XT? I know the 04-05 were basically the same ecu as the STI, but the 07 to me looks to be closer to the WRX.

The reason I ask is that I have this thing now, and I have a downpipe. But I havent decided what EM I will be running as of yet, and I am trying to determine if it would have the lean run problem from the ol/cl delay like the wrx, or is it like the 04-05 STI and it will be fine?

Yes I am aware this is a noobish Q, but I havent stayed on top of this stuff as much over the past year or so.
Please no guesses or people who dont really know but heard someone say they read it on the internet somewhere


*flamesuit on
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Old 04-21-2007, 11:25 PM   #2
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IIRC Dave, the FXT ECU is much like the 06-07 WRX. There is a timing shelf that you have to zero out and add back in some timing to get it to be smooth. Also if you 0 the O/L to C/L delays, the fuel map will control the transition point (which makes the car quite smooth). In short, yes you need a tune after getting the D/P. Adding the D/P without EM will cause the car to overboost as well. The 06-07 WRX has lean spots stock that are not very good. All in all, the newer subarus can benefit from a tune even with stock parts. The 07 STI has to have a tune to run right, it is really bad.

-Gabe
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Old 04-22-2007, 12:12 AM   #3
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Dave,

I am not sure about the 07 FXT ROM. We (at enginuity) do not have a copy yet to disassemble (I think). So I can only really guess at the naswer, but I would say get em. All of the 07's so far and most of the 06's have problems with any D/P. Running lean/overboost/etc. Perhaps I can pull your rom when Kevin comes down next week.
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Old 04-22-2007, 12:19 AM   #4
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I just looked at the 06 FXT ROM and it is exactly like the 06 WRX except it is missing an emissions timing shelf that the 06 had. The FXT still has one (06 WRX has two), so even on it you need EM for a D/P.

There is already a lean spot in the stock map (but not as bad as the 06-07 WRX), adding a D/P makes it worse.

-Gabe
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Old 04-22-2007, 01:22 AM   #5
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I figured as much.

Any kind of ETA on the 07 flash? And anytime you want to come pull it off my fxt you are way more than welcome to.
I am going to need the same cable as the 06-07 wrx right? (I would thinks so, everything I can tell at least LOOKING at it says its the same as the WRX, but obviously I cant see the ecu mapping.

I had thought the 07 would be the same as the 06, but with all the problems the 07 STI owners are reporting, its obvious SOMETHING has changed. I know subaru has a flash that fixes the STI, Im going to find out on monday if its available for the FXT as well.

Last edited by Davenow; 04-22-2007 at 01:28 AM.
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Old 04-22-2007, 01:26 AM   #6
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BTW I feel a bit of a hesitation in the 4500rpm area, that is almost exactly like what the MSM has, just to a MUCh lesser degree. Considering that the hesitation on the MSM is the delay, I figure its the same thing on this. Although its not anywhere near as bad on the FXT as it is on the MSM.


I wonder if the 02 signal clamp we use on the miatas would have the same effect. Basically its a pressure switch that ties into a boost signal, and goes inline with the 02 sensor line to the ecu, and just before you hit 0 vacuum/boost it kicks the crossover into effect. That way the delay doesnt happen while you are under boost.
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Old 04-22-2007, 09:02 AM   #7
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Same cable for the DBW cars. Let me see if the team has a copy.
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Old 04-22-2007, 09:27 AM   #8
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you know what sucks the most about this?

I feel like a total noob with this reflash stuff, because although I know the basics of efi tuning, I havent really seen the street tuner or enginuity/openecu/ecuexplorer for more than a few minute, hell I havent even seen deltadash in like 3 years I know "how" to tune, like what I am changing, why I am changing and how the change effects other things, I just need to play with the software to get the hang of HOW to make the changes
I should probably DL it and play with it a bit
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Old 04-22-2007, 10:02 AM   #9
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ok installed enginuity, DL'd some guys rom image just to look through.
Other than having an ishtload of parameters that I am not 100% sure what to do with yet, this seems pretty easy to get the hang of. When I look at the boost and fuel tables, am I seeing ACTUAL values? As in where it says 14.50 in the boost table, is that 14.5PSI? and where I see 14.7 in the fuel tables,thats 14.7-1 obviously right?

If so, WOW this will be a ishtton better than what I have previously used.
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Old 04-22-2007, 10:50 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davenow View Post
ok installed enginuity, DL'd some guys rom image just to look through.
Other than having an ishtload of parameters that I am not 100% sure what to do with yet, this seems pretty easy to get the hang of. When I look at the boost and fuel tables, am I seeing ACTUAL values? As in where it says 14.50 in the boost table, is that 14.5PSI? and where I see 14.7 in the fuel tables,thats 14.7-1 obviously right?

If so, WOW this will be a ishtton better than what I have previously used.
The fuel values are targets for open loop operation. They are determined by an aglorithm in the ECU using the MAF sensor and not an O2 sensor. LTFT (Long term fuel trim) is learned during closed loop with the "limped" WB O2 on our cars then applied during Open loop fueling. So these are just targets, but you tune this table with a WB02 to try and achieve the correct A/F ratio.

On a side note the 07 FXT (and 07 LGT) uses a CAN bus which ECUFlash does not support yet. Hopefully it will (Colby may be looking into adding it already, IDK). I am looking into it as well in my spare time, but its gonna be a good while b4 I have anything made to flash and read over the CAN bus.
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Old 04-22-2007, 02:25 PM   #11
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I got ahold of a cable at the autoX today, but it wouldnt read the rom on my ecu...
It could be a problem with Vista and ecuflash I suppose. Enginuity seems to work fine, but ecuflash wont read the ecu.
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Old 04-22-2007, 02:37 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davenow View Post
I got ahold of a cable at the autoX today, but it wouldnt read the rom on my ecu...
It could be a problem with Vista and ecuflash I suppose. Enginuity seems to work fine, but ecuflash wont read the ecu.
ecuflash won't read your CAN bus ecu, thats what gabedude was saying.

07 LGT owners have the same problem
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Old 04-22-2007, 05:08 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by 97whitesi View Post
ecuflash won't read your CAN bus ecu, thats what gabedude was saying.

07 LGT owners have the same problem
I understood that. It was worth a shot to see if I could get ANYTHING off it.
What I meant is that I dont know if the problem I had was ONLY the can bus issue, or if it was also a vista compatability issue as well.
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Old 04-22-2007, 10:43 PM   #14
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I am working on a solution for enginuity as is Colby is for ecuflash. Subaru is releasing an API to read+write all 03+ Suabru ECUs (including CAN bus) for repair shops.

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Old 04-22-2007, 11:27 PM   #15
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Oh dear god let it come fast. The urge to mod is really acting up.
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Old 04-23-2007, 12:00 AM   #16
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Cobb will more than likely get it first or already has it. EcuTek prolly does too.
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Old 04-23-2007, 07:53 PM   #17
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I dont think CObb has it yet. Ill call tomorrow and ask though.

Any thoughts on how long it will take after cobb does it for you guys to get it? I want em asap, but I really dont want to buy an ap, then sell it at a loss (although it wotn be that much of a loss) a month later.

And I need the map to be for an STI tmic and 16G anyway.
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Old 04-24-2007, 08:03 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davenow View Post
Ok so we all know by now (or should) that you shouldnt do a downpipe on an 04+ WRX without EM, as its dangerous.
And we also know that the 04-05 STI does not have the same issue, and CAN safely run a downpipe sans EM.

I havent kept up beyond that. I would assume the WRX is the same, but what about the forester XT? I know the 04-05 were basically the same ecu as the STI, but the 07 to me looks to be closer to the WRX.

The reason I ask is that I have this thing now, and I have a downpipe. But I havent decided what EM I will be running as of yet, and I am trying to determine if it would have the lean run problem from the ol/cl delay like the wrx, or is it like the 04-05 STI and it will be fine?

Yes I am aware this is a noobish Q, but I havent stayed on top of this stuff as much over the past year or so.
Please no guesses or people who dont really know but heard someone say they read it on the internet somewhere


*flamesuit on
If you run a downpipe without EM...do you have to keep the stock catback for it to be safe?? Shorty downpipe or full downpipe?? Does it matter??
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Old 04-24-2007, 09:30 AM   #19
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See if you can get the wastegate of the 16g ported. Or do something about boost creep. It will creep if you're in a area with weather that drops below 40.. =( My 16g has terminal boost creep when it gets cold. It's bad enough I have to tune for it. Since I can't control the boost I have to pull timing and run richer and pretend my boost target is 20psi.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Davenow View Post
I dont think CObb has it yet. Ill call tomorrow and ask though.

Any thoughts on how long it will take after cobb does it for you guys to get it? I want em asap, but I really dont want to buy an ap, then sell it at a loss (although it wotn be that much of a loss) a month later.

And I need the map to be for an STI tmic and 16G anyway.
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Old 04-25-2007, 11:31 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zumble View Post
See if you can get the wastegate of the 16g ported. Or do something about boost creep. It will creep if you're in a area with weather that drops below 40.. =( My 16g has terminal boost creep when it gets cold. It's bad enough I have to tune for it. Since I can't control the boost I have to pull timing and run richer and pretend my boost target is 20psi.

Wrongish. Well, not always correct is more like it. I know of several 16-18-20Gs in New England that dont have creep problems. Some do, some dont. There is no 100% setup that definately will or wont creep.


And I was one of the first people on nasioc to port a turbo years back. I can handle the porting work myself if it needs it I want to say I have done maybe 30+ turbo ports and easily 15 or so manifolds. (and 2 sets of TGV deletes, several throttle body smoothings etc)
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