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Old 06-02-2007, 12:24 AM   #1
Mojambo
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Default Koni inserts in STI inverted struts-specs and pics inside

OK,


So I was silly and bought a used set of 06 STI takeoffs for my own STI and planned on getting Koni Yellows for them. Afterwards I find out they don't fit.

Well, based on some searching and actual taking apart of the STI struts. I can say that it should be possible with a little effort.

See thread below for similar details and discussions. I wanted to start a new thread to give more detailed information as to what the dimensions of the sti inverted struts were.
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...ti+koni+insert

Jweiss, I hope it's ok that I took some details from the other thread and added it in here.

koni insert info:
http://www.koniracing.com/8610.html
8610-1351 (WRX front)
------------
Max length (top of piston to bottom of housing): 560 mm
Min length: 390 mm
Stroke: 170 mm
OD of body: 44 mm (widest) - 41 mm (smallest)

8610-1408 (WRX rear)
------------
Max length: 654 mm
Min length: 440 mm
Stroke: 214 mm
OD of body: same as 8610-1351

Page 10 gives specs:

http://www.koni-na.com/pdfcatalogs/K...ortCatalog.pdf

OK,

I removed the bottom 14mm nut and pulled the insert out. I immediately noticed that the grease was really caked and how the inverted housing would not get any love from the grease.(1year old struts) One of the rear struts had water or moisture that came up through the bottom nut as the grease was really brown and getting hard.

I then removed the cap that holds the dust seal. I used a piece of steel and hit it from the bottom untill it came off. (really easy)

Then with the dust seal off I can get access to the proper measurements inside the strut housing. There are 2 bushings/sleeves inside the strut housing that are pressed in there. They have some type of coating on them to enable to inverted cylinder to glide. These are pressed in, but I'm sure that with a little creativity they can come out quite easily.

My measurements show that the inside diameter of the front and rear struts with no bushing is 44.2mm. At this point I did not want to take out the bushing and risk damaging it in case the KONI's don't fit, so I pressed the caliper as far in as I could and took the measurement.

Outer diameter is 50.8

This means wall thickness is only 3.3mm




Vernier Caliper is rated to .02mm accuracy.


This means that the Koni insert could actually work with a little effort. From what the measurements are showing, the Koni housing would fit, but the 3, 1mm tabs that pressure fit the insert would have a hard time making their way in. A little time with a file or dremmel to the strut housing would get this to fit.

So tell me, does anyone think this will work?

I'm begining to see the light!

thanks

Eric


Taking struts apart:
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Last edited by Mojambo; 06-02-2007 at 12:32 AM.
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Old 06-02-2007, 12:31 AM   #2
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Removed dust seal:


Shiny inverted insert from bushing:


Compare front and rear inverted insert:


Inside of Strut housing:
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Old 06-02-2007, 01:04 AM   #3
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Other than a lathe... What about taking it to a muffler shop to have them just expand the pipe a hair? Just like how they make exhaust systems...

I would think that would even be cheaper than going to a machine shop?
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Old 06-02-2007, 02:07 AM   #4
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Interested to see how this turns out.

05 Struts
DA inserts
GC coilover conversion

would make a nice setup.
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Old 06-02-2007, 02:51 AM   #5
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This sounds like great news. Harbor Freight sells an exhaust pipe extender. You could just get that and pop it with an impact wrench for that extra hair of clearance.

What about the strut housing length, have you measured that? Would we have to trim a little bit off like the WRX struts?

If this can be done with a little work, I just might do this over getting coilovers.

Big props to the OP, even though it was kind of an accident.
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Old 06-02-2007, 07:07 AM   #6
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That's awesome Eric - I was just thinking about this again last night

We should talk... I have a spare pair of (rear) housings since doing the V7 -> V8 swap

I'd also be interested in figuring out how to do the 'bump travel mod'
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Old 06-02-2007, 08:00 AM   #7
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Subscribed!
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Old 06-02-2007, 10:18 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UkNuck View Post
That's awesome Eric - I was just thinking about this again last night

We should talk... I have a spare pair of (rear) housings since doing the V7 -> V8 swap

I'd also be interested in figuring out how to do the 'bump travel mod'
I've not read anything on the bump travel, so I'm in the dark on this. I'm actually going to show this to an ottawa member. Valheru. He's a machinist and were going to take a look at a solution. Only thing is that there is soo little material to remove if any that paying a machinist to do this would be counter productive to the cost of the koni insert project I'm planning. I'll be meeting with him on wednesday.

if your V7 rear are no longer going to be used, maybe we/you could try to get the top bushing/sleeve out of it to see how it goes. I'll be doing this as soon as I can confirm that there is a minimal chance the inserts won't fit.

As per the Koni Tech manual the ID needs to be minimum 43.5mm. See page 10 on the link I posted above.

I have a friend at work who just ordered a set of koni for his RSX. I'll be measuring them at work on monday and taking pics so we have a refrence. As it seems, all the 8610 inserts are using the same insert body to a certain degree.

Here is to getting more pics and specs on monday!
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Old 06-04-2007, 09:16 PM   #9
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Hey,

Just a little update. I measure the KOni inserts my friend had for his RSX. Turn out they are specific RSX inserts and measure 47.5mm.

Funny thing is that the body is not tapered on these inserts, but to have the small nubbs to secure the fit.

Can anyone meaure koni inserts for a WRX? Just curious as to what the claimed dimention from KONI is compared to the actual dimentions when measured with a caliper?

I'll be removing the inside bushings this week.

thanks

Eric
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Old 06-05-2007, 08:24 AM   #10
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Based on the measurements I have taken from the STI struts and Koni inserts I think it is very doable. The inserts are going to fit very tightly in the housings, but it could work.

Tony
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Old 06-05-2007, 08:33 AM   #11
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Some speculation, just off the top of my head b/c I'm intrigued by the idea of removing the bushings. I've had STi struts apart to see if Konis were possible and just figured they were welded in... pressed in never crossed my mind.

If the bushings are actually pressed in, a bit of work with a slide-hammer might get them out. However, if they are pressed in, I would expect to find a 'step' in there that they register against. The upper one probably has the step below it, the lower one probably has one above it (and would've been installed from the bottom-end before the end was formed. If there are steps in there, you'd have to cut those off somehow to slide-hammer the bushings out. A head porting tool might be useful there.

Other than that, I'd take an 90-deg die-grinder (with a smaller disc) to cut them out. A couple of slices down them and you could 'fold' them out, possibly with the help of a chisel.

I don't think a muffler-tube expander is the way to go. That strut body is probably stiffer than typical muffler tube and might just crack instead of expand.
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Old 06-06-2007, 08:09 AM   #12
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This is a great project, I'm excited about it. I hope you stay motivated enough to see it through.

Could you measure the length of your bump stops? It looks like Subaru shortened the fronts for 2006. The 2005 bump stops had four progressions and were roughly 2-3/8 inches long. That year also rode on its bump stops at stock ride height.
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Old 06-07-2007, 03:09 PM   #13
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good news,

I local club member is doing koni inserts in a few weeks. I'm hoping to have a strut ready by then to do a test fit!! I'll use the caliper to take exact measurements and pics! Can't wait!


bump stops are the same as you mentionned stretch, I already cut off one ring at the top. I'll be doing the bump travel mod too from D_REX

thanks

Eric
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Old 06-07-2007, 03:37 PM   #14
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What about heat press fit?
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Old 06-09-2007, 05:34 AM   #15
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I emptied a strut yesterday. I cut the bottom out just like the D_REX bump travel mod. I used a 1 1/2" hole saw.

I then removed the 3 bushing/guides from the inside of the strut housing. There are no nubs or anything inside the strut to stop or place the bushing inside the housing. This means the insides are smooth and ready to accept an insert.

pics and more measurements to come. I will be test fitting and measuring a set of koni inserts in about 2 weeks! stay tuned

Eric
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Old 06-09-2007, 06:58 AM   #16
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Nice work Eric!

What tools did you use to take out the bushings?

Cheers,

Jeff
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Old 06-09-2007, 09:45 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mojambo View Post
I emptied a strut yesterday. I cut the bottom out just like the D_REX bump travel mod. I used a 1 1/2" hole saw.

I then removed the 3 bushing/guides from the inside of the strut housing. There are no nubs or anything inside the strut to stop or place the bushing inside the housing. This means the insides are smooth and ready to accept an insert.

pics and more measurements to come. I will be test fitting and measuring a set of koni inserts in about 2 weeks! stay tuned

Eric
Interested if you could shot some pics.
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Old 06-09-2007, 04:43 PM   #18
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pics are here.




Tools used were:
Hammer
24" flat steel bar(long bar on a clamp)
1 1/2" hole saw

I started with using the hole saw to cut the bottom out. I'm going to be doing the D_REX bump travel mod, so this is a must. It also allows enough room to get a flat bar in there to remove the bushings. The bushins were the easy part. Cutting the hole out of the bottom takes time. By using the 1 1/2" hole saw, you remove the material that is not welded. Since the tolerances are soo tight, the bottom lip that will stop the insert will be about 2mm's. I'll then machine a spacer to keep things in place ala D_REX.

Next update will have koni measurements and a mock installation of the insert.

I'm pumped!

P.S. This was supposed to be a winter project 07-08...so much for that!
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Old 06-11-2007, 08:09 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mojambo View Post
I emptied a strut yesterday. I cut the bottom out just like the D_REX bump travel mod. I used a 1 1/2" hole saw.

I then removed the 3 bushing/guides from the inside of the strut housing. There are no nubs or anything inside the strut to stop or place the bushing inside the housing. This means the insides are smooth and ready to accept an insert.

pics and more measurements to come. I will be test fitting and measuring a set of koni inserts in about 2 weeks! stay tuned

Eric
Outstanding!... great news for 05+ STi owners looking for alternatives to pricey coilovers.

I have a set of struts sitting around waiting for this mod now... one that I 'inherited' from a buddy b/c I broke one of his struts installing camber plates (snapped off the top-nut-stud) and swapped him out with a good spare I had from a set. I was wondering what I could do with it, now I know

I can't believe that the bushings are just pressed into a location in the strut and nothing locates them postively, but that's definitely great news!

The rest of the job seems to be cake, do the D_REX mod, assemble with some ground controls... done!
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Old 06-11-2007, 01:56 PM   #20
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Hey Eric,

Ill let you know when my Struts come in, ive been told about a week or so to arrive and probably another few days to get to me.

Cheers.

-Rain.
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Old 06-11-2007, 03:59 PM   #21
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what part numbers are you using for this project??

8610-xxxx front
8610-yyyy rear


???
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Old 06-12-2007, 09:19 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 0000-09-0233 View Post
what part numbers are you using for this project??

8610-xxxx front
8610-yyyy rear


???
The first post now says 1351's and 1408's, but my understanding is you want the 1440's for the rear if you are using 04+ top-hats due to the change between bugeyes and 04+ Imprezas w/the rear strut tops.

I may indeed have my part numbers reversed though... check that before relying on my horrible memory!
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Old 06-14-2007, 06:10 AM   #23
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not too sure of part #. What ever the numer is of 04+ strut tops. I'm checking with Alex performance to get this setup in my hands.

thanks
E
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Old 06-14-2007, 08:32 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesohoh7 View Post
The first post now says 1351's and 1408's, but my understanding is you want the 1440's for the rear if you are using 04+ top-hats due to the change between bugeyes and 04+ Imprezas w/the rear strut tops.

I may indeed have my part numbers reversed though... check that before relying on my horrible memory!

I've confirmed it. 8610-1351 for all fronts
8610-1440 04+ rear (due to top hats)
8610-1480 <04 (due to top hats)

I also talked to a guy at koni about the stock WRX spring rates vs what some of us will be using..

I need a set too,
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Old 07-01-2007, 12:52 AM   #25
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Bump for updates?!
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