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Old 05-10-2006, 06:15 PM   #1
RainMaker
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Default Injen CAIntake (and maybe others) dyno testing on a Stage2 STI

Hey guys,

The mad dyno testers are back (Chris&Gregg). This time we have been feeling some really weird juju in response to Injen's claim of 30hp from their intake. We've also read lots of places some supposition that the stock intake is practically limitless. We went aways back and didnt find any good, applicable, objective dyno testing of the Injen intake (or really any other intake). We just so happen to have a stage 2 car sitting around (with headers on it now )... and we happen to have an Injen CAI right here too.

Im a big believer in the benefits of a cold intake charge, but I couldnt dream up any decent tests that would show the effect of under-hood air (short ram intake) vs external air (CAI) on the dyno. I'm open for suggestions. I like the APS CAIs, the K&N CAIs, and the Injen CAIs.

I believe that the MAF housing in the Injen intake (and others) are not perfect simulations under power of the stock MAF housing. Fortunately, the car learns its way back to stock like AFRs within a reasonable amount of time, IF the change isnt much (Insert debate here... I know, I know). Therefore, I think we should baseline the car on the dyno and log it on the street, then install the Injen and let it learn for awhile... and then dyno again and log on the street again, showing learned fuel trim correction. As with the header test, we'll show you all the changes in weather and try and keep everything as close as possible. All dyno'ing will be on our faithful local Dynojet and results will be available both uncorrected and with the error-prone SAE correction.

Now, when we did the header test we had an *excellent* response form folks willing to help out with the dyno tab. Again, this time, Chris&Gregg are willing to foot the bill for the test of what we have mentioned (stock, and Injen). We understand that SOME folks would like to see how a Perrin Panel Filter dynos out. Personally, *I* could care less. Some folks may want to see the APS intake. So here's the deal...
If I get $50 in contributions, we'll dyno and log the Perrin Panel Filter too. If we get $100 and someone loans us an APS 65mm CAI, we'll dyno test and log the Perrin PF, the Injen, stock, AND the APS. If a vendor want's their CAI dyno'd too, and can put up the $50, we'll do it as long as they understand the wordy disclaimer below.

Current Intakes to be Tested:

1. Stock
2. Stock with a Perrin Panel Filter
3. Injen CAI
4. K&N Typhoon CAI

As before I'll list all contributers and their amounts right here so that you guys can see that Chris&Gregg arent in this for the $$$ (or a Perrin Panel Filter, for that matter ).
Contributions can be sent to the paypal address cnolke@excite.com.

Contributors:
1. aaronwrx - $20
2. Ryan Perrault (nic?) - $10
3. Unabomber - $20
4. Chump - $10
5. ekw - $10
6. TylerTR - $10
7. Evodon84 - $15
8. JDGrimm - $10

We'll keep y'all posted on when and what in this thread, and the final total results will be assembled and truncated in a second final thread.

After intakes, we will be looking into dyno'ing different vendors Stage2 tunes.

Let the games begin

Disclaimer: Contributions from participating vendors will be accepted only up to the $50 it takes to dyno their part. If there is enough protest from the forum members, we may send you the $$$ and the part back.
All parts will be returned to vendors following testing. If the part is a stinker (ie it might hurt the car) and we realize that early, we reserve the right to apply the dyno $ to other parts and just send the stinker back. We will only dyno production parts that are available for purchase by anyone here at NASIOC. If we feel that we got a ringer in any way, we'll make as much fun as we can of the vendor here in the thread, and we may send you a non-ringer part back . Vendors and manufacturers may use the results that we find ONLY related to their part vs. stock, and not of other vendor's or manufacturer's parts. Please PM me with any questions.
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Last edited by RainMaker; 05-16-2006 at 07:28 PM.
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Old 05-10-2006, 08:07 PM   #2
Unabomber
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When it comes to put up or shut up, let it not be said that I am one to not put up. You have paypal!
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Old 05-10-2006, 08:53 PM   #3
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ooooohhhhhh snap!...........................you have another paypal


I would really like to see a shortram dyno vs a cold air.....of the same intakes of course....to see if there is actually power lost by the shortram.
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Old 05-10-2006, 09:06 PM   #4
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Isn't the stock setup a cold air intake?
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Old 05-10-2006, 09:12 PM   #5
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If you guys are interested I have an EBay intake I would donate if you would return it.
It's just sitting right now as I am waiting to get a tune up at Mach V.
I planned on running a K&N cone with it and junking the filter that came with it but I would be interested to see the results either way. LMK.
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Old 05-10-2006, 11:25 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt Crunch
Isn't the stock setup a cold air intake?
Same old argument. I don't think anyone has defined at a very technical level the difference. The stocker does draw in air from outside the engine bay via the snorkus. It doesn't draw in air as low to the ground as the typical 'CAI'. There is also a difference in the layout of the piping as more of the stocker's piping is in the engine bay. The filter is also tucked inside the engine bay (the biggest difference for definition purposes that causes most people to not consider it a CAI). How about we comprimise and call it an Induction Box Intake? Kind of like the Typhoon when using the shroud?? But then again the sentiment is that the Typhoon has heat issues like other shorties as well.

offset
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Old 05-11-2006, 12:20 AM   #7
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OH SNAP! is right! I didnt realize people were quite this interested. I'm really pleased... I was worried I was the only one.

And no... it may never be said that the Unabomber is not a put up guy.

I really would like to discuss HOW the cars should be dyno'd, and if theres a way to include a short-ram intake (Cobb, Perrin, Worx, ???).

My thought is that with the right fans we can try and figure out how to dyno with the hood shut.

hrm....
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Old 05-11-2006, 12:23 AM   #8
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We have $50! Consider the Perrin Panel filter part of the test. What's next?
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Old 05-11-2006, 12:55 AM   #9
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As far as the dyno going, I'm wondering if you could cruise on the dyno for a few min before doing a Pull with the hood down -- this would let the engine bay heat up.... and the fan would simulate air being pushed in.
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Old 05-11-2006, 01:51 AM   #10
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Subscribed.

I've been debating back and forth about a new filter in the stocker or buying an aftermarket CAI. I've already messaged a few people offers on the sales forums so let's get the testing done ASAP.

Paypal'd $10 for the APS fund.
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Old 05-11-2006, 01:41 PM   #11
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Thanks for the contribution, chump. I'd love it if anyone has a APS 65mm or a K&N Typhoon that they would loan me.
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Old 05-11-2006, 09:25 PM   #12
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Hi folks,

I thought I'd chime in on this one a bit. I've been thinking about the best way to test intakes, and I am not convinced that a dyno is the best way. It seems that most of the difference would be based on improved (or decreased) airflow. It will be difficult to control air temps on a dyno, and that may have a significant impact.

This would really come into play in the whole short-ram vs. CAI debate.

One option would be extensive road testing/data logging. I've been fairly pleased with the breadth and consitency of data logging. The big piece that it is missing is the all-important horsepower number.

Obviously, drag strip (or lap time) numbers would be the ultimate, since that's really what it's all about, but it's hard to really eliminate all the variables, without a lot of runs and comprehensive data logging.

Anyway, just food for thought. I'm curious what other people think the most objective method of testing is.

Gregg
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Old 05-11-2006, 09:57 PM   #13
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another few $$ for the kitty.
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Old 05-12-2006, 12:46 AM   #14
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We have the offer of a Perrin Panel filter from a friend and he thinks he can spare a K&N too.

So far, so good.
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Old 05-12-2006, 12:59 PM   #15
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I have been waiting forever for this! I would love to see how far off the MAF readings are at idle and at WOT. After I get my check today I might have to help out with this dyno
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Old 05-12-2006, 01:05 PM   #16
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Money sent!
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Old 05-12-2006, 01:48 PM   #17
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i did the original typhoon test.

You need to figure out if you are going to reset the ECU each time. The manual suggests that you disconnect the battery before disconnecting the MAF sensor. If you do that the ECU will reset, and if it resets, what is your plan to let the ECU re-learn the intake?

This isnt going to be easy. good luck to you.
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Old 05-12-2006, 03:25 PM   #18
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We plan on resetting the ECU after each and every Intake swap. We then let the car learn in the settings for approximately 60+ (usually more than 100) road miles and then log. Then dyno.

Im actually not too worried about the learning part. The car has shown great learning thats pretty quick and accurate. We will log though to make sure everything is kosher, and we also log AFRs on teh dyno to see that the results are reasonable.
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Old 05-12-2006, 03:47 PM   #19
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Finally some investigation instead of all nasioc intake hate hype, something is WAY better than nothing, it's been long over due!
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Old 05-12-2006, 04:08 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desert pirate
Finally some investigation instead of all nasioc intake hate hype, something is WAY better than nothing, it's been long over due!
I don't know, I think people have started accepting intakes for the STi lately. Just hard for some people to seperate WRX knowledge from STi applications. I agree though, it will be interesting to see the results.

offset
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Old 05-14-2006, 11:33 PM   #21
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if all goes as planned i may have an APS 65mm CAI for you w/in the next week. it will have less that 1500 miles. pm me if you'd like me to send it out.







p.s. i may also have an AEM CAI w/a couple hundred miles on it. but it would also mean my car would be down till you send it back to me.


vince

Last edited by Bishop; 05-14-2006 at 11:42 PM.
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Old 05-15-2006, 12:42 AM   #22
RainMaker
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The APS might go really well, though we are getting a line of intake ready for testing, and I dont know when exactly we could get to it. I'll keep you posted with timing as we progress, adn if you cna loan it out, great... if not, that will be OK too.

I think we'll put off the AEM until more folks are interested, and you dont need it as badly

thanks,
Chris
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Old 05-15-2006, 12:48 AM   #23
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no prob. i'll keep you posted.
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Old 05-16-2006, 01:03 PM   #24
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Great! Thank you again for taking time for doing this. I didnt get a chance to send a little cash your way for the manifold test so i'll send some cash via paypal your way now for this.

Thanks guys


EDIT: ps, you should add the word "comparo" to the end of the threa title.

always helped me find the thread when it was buried
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Old 05-18-2006, 04:56 AM   #25
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Bump...come on ppl you know you want to know
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