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Old 06-06-2007, 12:29 AM   #1
REX8
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Default Video: Maybe The Only Thing Keeping Me From An S2000 In H1

Video from a B-Run H1 race recently... (Subaru on track as well)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...45686659989943

Some Nasa Mid-A guys may know Scot in the Yellow S2000, the in-car is a swapped hatch (K24, making 225+ whp and 300 lbs less than the S2k minimum weight).

Most of the S2k's bailed out of the series because they just can't compete at their weight with the swaps.

FWD sucks comments welcome, but watch first...

Anyone know who the Subaru driver was? Or what he was doing? I heard 275 Hoosiers compared to their RA-1's....He flies off the end of the main straight at 2:43 and wasn't appearing to have his stuff together before that either.

I think there's also a Legy Turbo at 8:30...can't imagine who that could be...

Anyway, thought it was a pretty good session.
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Last edited by REX8; 06-08-2007 at 06:54 PM.
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Old 06-06-2007, 12:02 PM   #2
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That looked pretty even to me - the S2000 got stuck behind slower traffic, which is what allowed the camera car to pass. S clearly had a braking advantage at the end of the straight, and the camera car was clearly faster coming on to the straight (the corner at which he passed twice).
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Old 06-06-2007, 12:21 PM   #3
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that STi is an XXTuning car. Its an 04 sti, with rolled fenders on 275's with a BBK all around. It has a really nice cage in it and iirc its running on Teins

there are problems with every series that trys to even cars out with weight but in the end its up to the driver. it looked like that S2k was doing well IMO.
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Old 06-06-2007, 12:41 PM   #4
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I didn't really see such an even match.

I saw a faster car, always able to pull back any gap created by traffic, but not able to pass because of a single braking zone. On a different track, with another passing opportunity, that's a walk.

Scot in the S2k is one of the top guys in the series. Depending on the track, the average s2k driver has been struggling. Usually the hatches have the first 3-5 spots every race. The power difference is pretty significant.


Certainly good close racing at B-Run...but you can clearly see the car with the upper hand IMHO.

Last edited by REX8; 06-06-2007 at 01:01 PM.
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Old 06-06-2007, 12:44 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spazegun2213 View Post
that STi is an XXTuning car. Its an 04 sti, with rolled fenders on 275's with a BBK all around. It has a really nice cage in it and iirc its running on Teins
Thats not the same car from the opener at VIR running down that black/silver 911 Cup car in the rain was it ( I thought that was an XXT car as well)???

If so, that has to be a different driver.
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Old 06-06-2007, 01:22 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by REX8 View Post
Thats not the same car from the opener at VIR running down that black/silver 911 Cup car in the rain was it ( I thought that was an XXT car as well)???

If so, that has to be a different driver.
Same car, maybe a different driver. Either way people screw up, and it looks like the sti just pulled a stupid move and lost it under braking.
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Old 06-06-2007, 04:14 PM   #7
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Same car, maybe a different driver. Either way people screw up, and it looks like the sti just pulled a stupid move and lost it under braking.
Don't I know it...
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Old 06-06-2007, 04:49 PM   #8
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The S2K is a very capable H1 car. Scott has a lot of seat time in the car and definately stands a chance at winning. The difference between the S2k and the rest of the cars is that run in H1 is that they may have more motor but the S2k has better handling and brakes and needs to be driven differently. There were not many S2000's running in the series for the reason that they are expensive to run. you can't rotate your tires from front to back as you can with a hatch or coupe, go fast parts are more expensive. If it were in my budget I'd be running that car but it's not so I'll stick with H5 and watching the S2k come up in my mirrors and then disapear in front of me.
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Old 06-06-2007, 05:01 PM   #9
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Holy snap! That STi driver went off track in a flury of tire smoke!!!
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Old 06-06-2007, 10:11 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Zephyr View Post
The S2K is a very capable H1 car. Scott has a lot of seat time in the car and definately stands a chance at winning. The difference between the S2k and the rest of the cars is that run in H1 is that they may have more motor but the S2k has better handling and brakes and needs to be driven differently. There were not many S2000's running in the series for the reason that they are expensive to run. you can't rotate your tires from front to back as you can with a hatch or coupe, go fast parts are more expensive. If it were in my budget I'd be running that car but it's not so I'll stick with H5 and watching the S2k come up in my mirrors and then disapear in front of me.

They run very very similar lap-times, but the strengths of the swaps on the straights mean they have the advantage when it comes to passing, as most passing even in HC happens at the end of straights.

Scot will have a go at it, like he has in years past. But remember, he sold his last S specifically because he said its not competitive in the series. He only bought the yellow one after missing it. He went into this year thinking he is going to lose like he had in the past.

In any event, if I was running the same lap times, I'd rather have the faster car in the straight line. If most of the passing is in "turn 1" type situations, the S isn't fast enough off a corner to make up for the power difference. Standard case of "catch them in the turns, lose them in the straights". They are tired of trying to out brake them from too far back to get around. If its not a case of being on pole and holding them off with your braking, they aren't winning. Or at least that's how its been in years past.

No H1 S driver that I've talked to seems to feel its a winning combo...I guess you've heard differently?
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Old 06-06-2007, 10:13 PM   #11
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Quote:
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Holy snap! That STi driver went off track in a flury of tire smoke!!!
Almost had some Factory Five in his right side at the start there too.
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Old 06-06-2007, 10:47 PM   #12
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That kind of sucks. You would think they would at least want the S2K to have a chance to win. Setting the rules so that they are uncompetitive seems kind of stupid. I certainly wouldn't want to run in that silly series. They really should limit all the cars to similar acceleration and grip levels based on weight tires and maybe inlet restrictors. I know it is tough to do, but if you don't have the time or ability you shouldn't be organizing a series to begin with. I may not like what NASCAR has become or the way they race, but their management guys have their act togethor compared to other forms of motorsports in the U.S. Until we get ours together we have no hope of stealing any of NASCAR's popularity. Wow sorry that turned into kind of a rant. I guess maybe I had been wanting to say all that for a while.
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Old 06-06-2007, 11:10 PM   #13
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When the series started the S2k was very capable. There are new combinations that have since entered the ranks. It is a far strech to say that it is not fairly classed as most drivers have not exploided the rules fully. We do our best to classify cars by power to weight as well as overall configuration of the cars. This season we all must run on a spec tire, I feel that that is not the right way to run a series like Honda Challenge, others do. There are very few cars that run in the series that have totally exploided the rules to their full extent and you can see by the results which they are.

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Old 06-06-2007, 11:40 PM   #14
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What group was that? You say Honda challange but there was an STi and Factory Five in there too?

Just curious cause it seems like they were moving, yet some of our Spec Miata guys are faster then the Factory Five cars but the s2k, sti, f5, and camera car seemed to be moving a lot faster then a spec miata.

Is this some class that allows to the factory five to be modded more then usual?
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Old 06-06-2007, 11:45 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zephyr View Post

Zephyr
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(excuse me while I remove the foot from my mouth)



From what I've seen, you guys run a tight ship. Keep up the good work. I'm sure I'm just biased, getting an ear-full from one side all the time.

If Scot writes angry letters, he's just going through some personal "tension" thats all...

To be fair, there haven't been enough strong S2k efforts to pass that judgment I guess.

Its a great car, I hope it can gain the same traction here on the East Coast that it has on the West. I'd love to get into the series with one!

Last edited by REX8; 06-06-2007 at 11:50 PM.
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Old 06-07-2007, 09:07 AM   #16
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Great vid. To me they seemed pretty evenly matched, but I see your point. The swapped hatches are faaaaast. I'll always root for the S2K's, since I had one.

This video also reminds me why I don't think I could do W2W racing. I was stressed just watching the vid!
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Old 06-07-2007, 11:44 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BHawk View Post
That kind of sucks. You would think they would at least want the S2K to have a chance to win. Setting the rules so that they are uncompetitive seems kind of stupid. I certainly wouldn't want to run in that silly series. They really should limit all the cars to similar acceleration and grip levels based on weight tires and maybe inlet restrictors. I know it is tough to do, but if you don't have the time or ability you shouldn't be organizing a series to begin with. I may not like what NASCAR has become or the way they race, but their management guys have their act togethor compared to other forms of motorsports in the U.S. Until we get ours together we have no hope of stealing any of NASCAR's popularity. Wow sorry that turned into kind of a rant. I guess maybe I had been wanting to say all that for a while.
If you are capable of determining inlet restrictor and tire size to equalize a couple thousand different combinations of engine, chassis, weight etc. at different preparation levels, I am sure that any of the Honda Challenge rulesmakers would love your assistance!

Those who do make the rules are acutely aware of the imbalances present already, but you do have to be VERY careful to keep newer/potentially significantly more expensive cars from running over the class. At that point you may very likely lose a significant portion of your grassroots audience (remember, this is an AMATEUR series) If you want $80k+ compact Honda/Acura products, Grand Am Cup ST-class is not that far away. It's also a whole new world of hurt on the wallet because it's a pro series. In the meanwhile, I am guessing that NASCAR is somewhat safe from Honda Challenge...

-Chris
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PS- Honda Challenge is just one series that NASA runs. They share the track with other groups. H1-H2 cars have frequently run in the "Big Bore" group with Factory Five, American Iron etc. series while H3-H5 have shared track time with the "Small Bore" type group with Spec Miata, 944 Cup and such.
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Old 06-07-2007, 10:41 PM   #18
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Chris, thanks for explaining the dificulties that we run into with rules.

Up until 2007 we only had one class that allowed swaps/hybrids. For 2007 we now allow "Limited Prep" swaps in H2. This is because swaps like the B16 and GSR are not competitive with the K series engines. It also allows driver who want to run a swap to run at a lower overhead.

The video from the H1 hatch was from a NASA NE weekend. Since NASA NE is still in the early phase of it's wheel to wheel race program we only have one race group that all classes are thrown into. So far it has worked out quite well but I'm sure once classes start becoming far more populated things will have to change.

The STi that blew T1 is from XXTuning. The car is dumb fast and started that race on pole.

Z
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Old 06-08-2007, 12:29 PM   #19
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If you want to see a "tense" race... http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...52393884182372 watch that, heh. Whooooole lot more exciting!

Edit: I screwed that up. That's not from Scot's car, I made the mistake of hitting "more videos from user" and assumed that was stil Scot's stuff. Nope, it appears the above vid is shot from Chris Drabouski's car.

Last edited by ChrisDP; 06-09-2007 at 12:14 AM.
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Old 06-08-2007, 02:33 PM   #20
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Is the motor in the hatch a K24?
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Old 06-08-2007, 04:40 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisDP View Post
If you want to see Scot in a "tense" race... http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...52393884182372 watch that, heh. Whooooole lot more exciting!
That was fun to watch! I've just become a spectating fan of amatuer in-car racing. I love the grittyness and less polishness of it. Much more, "ya never know what's gonna happen".
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Old 06-08-2007, 06:11 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisDP View Post
If you want to see Scot in a "tense" race... http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...52393884182372 watch that, heh. Whooooole lot more exciting!
I don't think Scot was in that race...but good stuff none the less.
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Old 06-08-2007, 06:22 PM   #23
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In that video, the S2000 clearly had a disadvantage in terms of power.
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Old 06-08-2007, 06:46 PM   #24
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Yup, that is the K24 equipped hatch.

Quote:
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In that video, the S2000 clearly had a disadvantage in terms of power.
Which video #1 or #2? The car in the second video had a nearly stock drivetrain in that race. The second video, from Hyperfest 2006, there was only one S2000 present.
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Old 06-08-2007, 08:42 PM   #25
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Great vid. thx.
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