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Old 12-23-2001, 07:32 PM   #1
BluJay
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Default Go Fast Bits underdrive pulley set

I installed the GFB underdrive pulley set, in red, this afternoon.

I chose the GFB set over other sets for two reasons. First, it is both lighter and also underdriven, unlike some other sets that offer a lighter pulley wheel that is still of stock diameter. Second, some underdrive sets only give you a smaller crank wheel, and I was worried about underdriving the alternator b/c I spend a lot of time sitting in traffic (low rpms + high electrical load from stereo, amplifier, cellphone = dead battery, or so they say). The GFB set offers a lighter, underdriven crank wheel, and a matching, smaller-than-stock alternator wheel, so the alternator is not being undrdriven. I'm still worried about the A/C compressor running too slowly but I guess I have to wait till the summer to see if it's going to be problem.

The set, which I got for $200, comes nicely packaged, in a retail box. The 2 wheels are of high quality. nicely finished, with cool etched logos. The kit came with 2 new Gates belts.

Unfortunately, the instructions that came with the set were horrible, and made the install a your-basically-on-your-own affair. I searched all over i-club and the web for better instructions, but couldn't really find anything on point. The instructions have references to the power-steering pulley wheel, which does not get replaced by this set on the MY02, and there are no pictures at all. Worse, there is big bold writing at the top stating something to the effect of, "Only professional automotive technicians should attempt to install this product." This was disappointing b/c the product comes packaged for retail and is being sold directly to car owners over the web.

Installation was difficult to say the least, and required much improvising on my part. GFB needs to improve the instructions on this kit before I recommend it to anyone. I took some pics and will post instructions soon in the "install" sticky under the Factory Forced Induction forum, but to be honest, I'm hoping someone finds a better way to put these on. The crank pulley was not as hard as I'd heard to get off, but the alternator pulley was very stubborn. I couldn't figure out how to hold the pulley wheel still so I could loosen the nut holding it on. The method I used is not one I'd recommend.

Do the pulleys make a difference? In a word, yes. My initial impressions after the first 10 miles, which included 3 miles of WOT runs after the ECU reset, are positive. I don't feel any greater power up high, at WOT. Where I do a feel a quite-noticeable difference is at partial throttle, low-rpm running. Previously, my car was a dog when pulling out of rolling-stops where I was going too fast for a downshift to first. I would hardly call it quick now, but there's a lot more power down there, and quicker acceleration means I build boost sooner. Its a welcome improvement. I wasn't really expecting much of a hp gain, so I'm not that disappointed that I don't feel more maximum power at WOT.

That about covers it, I guess. If you have any questions, feel free to ask. I'll continue to post my impressions of the kit as I accumulate some more mileage. Bottom line, I think the improvements are worth the money, but until I see better installation instructions from GFB, I say look elsewhere.

JYH
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Last edited by BluJay; 02-22-2002 at 03:41 PM.
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Old 02-21-2002, 10:15 PM   #2
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Well i am going to bring this back from the grave. I got my set in from mastero subaru. It looks great and i would seriously like to do it tonight. However it did not come with belts. What is the world comming to? I was wondering if you could give me the size of the belts that i need if you do not mind. Also do you hear any squeeking at startups? thanks
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Old 02-22-2002, 10:44 AM   #3
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I don't know the size of the belts, but they were Graves belts, and I can get you the part number off the belt when I get a chance.

As for squeaking, yes, there was some after the installation, but tightening the belt tension took care of it.

JYH
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Old 02-22-2002, 03:16 PM   #4
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I called Joe as Mastero Subaru and we solved the problem. I bought the correct belt size and he gave me the amount of the belts back onto my credit card. I would have liked to recieved the belts with the pulleys but the service was good. I would order form him again.
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Old 02-22-2002, 03:30 PM   #5
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Cool. I'm glad it worked out for you.

Good luck on the install. I'd like to know how you get the alternator pulley off. I put a screwdriver through the alternator to hold the inner assembly still so I could undo the nut. It doesn't appear to have damaged anything, but it didn't seem right. If you can find a better way I'd like to know.

Also, if they ship you belts that are not Graves belts, I'd like to know the part #, if you don't mind posting it.

Thanks.

JYH
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Old 02-22-2002, 06:07 PM   #6
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In the instructions they said to use a air powered rattle gun or similar since there is no way to lock the pulley. DO NOT CLAMP THE PULLEYS WITH ANYTHING OR INSERT A ROD INTO THE HOLES TO LOCK THE PULLEY WHILE LOOSENING OR TIGHTENING THE NUTS, AS THIS COULD CAUSE IRREVERSIBLE DAMAGE.
Well it started to drizzle here and it is getting darker. O well i can't wait. That is why they invented theh flash light.
On the front it says NAPA but on the back it says The Gates Rubber Co.
050330 18 mm x 850 mm
040335 14 mm x 860 mm
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Old 02-27-2002, 04:45 PM   #7
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I have to say that the driveability of the car is greatly improved now with the pullies in. Air tools are a must to get the alt pulley off.

Now if your in a high gear and going slow, you normally have to downshift. Now the car doesn't shudder complaining to you to down shift. Over all the car is much smoother accelerating, and voltages have not changed any while driving.
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Old 02-27-2002, 05:01 PM   #8
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None of you have lost any highrpm power that you can tell right? It still pulls the same at higher rpms?
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Old 02-27-2002, 09:34 PM   #9
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Feels the same at the higher RPMs to me.
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Old 03-02-2002, 09:02 PM   #10
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to get the crank pulley off (22mm nut), put the car in 4th gear and have a friend step on the brake. it is difficult but with a good breaker bar it will come loose. the alternator pulley (24mm nut) is a different story. here's how we did it...my friend grabbed the pulley in some channel locks, with the old belt as padding, and i cranked it loose with the breaker bar. use a little lock-tite on the threads (not the shaft!) of the nuts when you put them back on. tightening the nut on the alternator with the new pulley on, well you'll just have to do the best you can. we torqued the crank bolt to 27Nm...not sure the conversion, but my craftsman torque wrench has both english and metric. be careful not to overtorque, the aluminum is softer than the stock pulley and may deform.
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Old 04-28-2002, 05:59 PM   #11
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Question Torque Specs

I'm about to install my set on a 02 legacy. Does anyone have the torque specs for reattaching the pulleys?

Thanks,

leeberbs
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Old 05-03-2002, 08:50 PM   #12
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Just installed my GFB power pulley set(or had it installed at local service station for $68)..
I bought them from teaguesauto/boxer4racing.com for $220. Dale Teague was very helpful with supplying me with additional information and installation instructions..
I bought the pulleys in the red color, and i'm impressed with the quality of the pulleys and there lightweight..
After driving around running a few erands today after picking my car up from shop I can feel a definite gain in drivability at lower rpms, as well as smoother shifts and slightly easier rev-matching.
In midrange and high rpms i do feel alittle more power in the buttometer, but not as pronounced as is the case at low rpms.
Also I had no idea how heavy the stock crank pulley was! it weighed in at approx. 5lbs. on my scale, where the GFB crank pulley weighs only 1lb.
NO change in the voltage after driving around with the stereo on and the lights on using the factory guage pod voltometer guage as a reference..
BTW all my refrences in this post as to gaining HP or other performance gains are going by feel only i have not dyno tested my car or taken to track to compare against my previous times.
The mods to my car are K&N airfilter w/mod,TurboXS-rfl-BOV, MBC(bleedvalve-type),Samco IC hoses,STI muffler. I ran a 13.44@100mph before i installed the SamcoIC hoses and now the GFB pulleys..
paul


Last edited by PaulRex; 05-17-2002 at 07:13 PM.
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Old 05-06-2002, 11:21 PM   #13
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Still debating on pulleys. Lots to choose from. For those that are set on GFBs here is the site with the best price I have found.

$175 @ http://www.subaruwrxparts.com/

Also found the Unorthodox pulley for $185 @ http://www.spimotorsports.com/Catalo...ley_518107.htm
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Old 05-07-2002, 07:20 PM   #14
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Default i live in vegas over summer....

with the GFB kit its been posted that it wont underdrive your electric system but your AC will be effected...
does anyone know more details about this?

like do you need to be at a certain RPM before air comes through the vents or is it just not quite as strong as before? any info
would be helpful from those who have these pulleys installed!!!

thanks
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Old 05-07-2002, 08:50 PM   #15
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I used my AC today while driving around town and it worked ok got some nice cold air.. I honestly don't use my ac that much even when the weather is hot(within reason) i prefer to just open up the windows so this was not a factor in my GFB purchase, although this is the first time i have heard anyone mention the ac compressor being affected by them. The alternator was my main concern and while i have noticed a temporary drop in voltage when i first start my car or when idling for a while it goes away as soon as i start driving.- UPDATE: 5/16/02 While idling i have noticed that my ac compressor does not work as well/as efficiently as before, but seems to go back to 100% as soon as the rpms rise above 600rpm or so idle that my car has when warm. This is just my opinion and observations.. I have no actual proof that the ac is not working as well during idle except that i was trying to defog my windows using the ac and i noticed that the air was not as cool as it normally is and that the windows took longer to defog, and when i tested the ac again today at idle it again did not apear to be working well until i started driving.

Last edited by PaulRex; 05-16-2002 at 11:31 AM.
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Old 05-11-2002, 05:41 PM   #16
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Thumbs up GFB Pulleys in Blue Installed

A couple of friends and I installed the GFB underdrive pulley set in blue today. With an air wrench, the whole thing took under 30 minutes. The set was $175 from Exeter Subaru's SubaruWRXParts.com including belts from Gates and Contitech.

On my pretty darn near stock sedan (Stromung muffler, K&N filterpanel), the most noticeable benefit was quicker spooling, especially in the lower RPMs and in the lower gears. This makes sense as the reduced rotational inertia of the GFB pulleys is best felt when strongly accelerating the drivetrain. Much less of a noticeable effect in higher gears and moderately high revs or lower revs since accelerating the mass of the vehicle is a strong portion of the engine output. Seemed a little easier to rev match as well.

I'd be interested in seeing how a lightened flywheel would feel. The GFB took 4 pounds off of the drivetrain. A flywheel could take another 12-13 pounds off. I imagine the effect would be much more dramatic. Unfortunately, that install is much more extensive and expensive.

I drove a buddy's TXS Stage 2 wagon and he remarked it didn't make a sensible difference to him. Not surprising that his setup is probably putting 40-50 more HP to the asphalt. What I did notice was the unbelievable effect his new up-pipe and massive down-pipe had on the boost. This sucker just kept pulling and boosting to redline. That with the Unichip makes a potent combination. Oh yeah, and the Falken Azenis kick the a$$ off of my RE92s. No surprise there.

Wilkey

Massive thanks go to Pete and Shane for help with this install.
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Old 05-13-2002, 11:18 AM   #17
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Default Re: GFB Pulleys in Blue Installed

Quote:
Originally posted by Ginseng
the most noticeable benefit was quicker spooling, especially in the lower RPMs and in the lower gears. This makes sense as the reduced rotational inertia of the GFB pulleys is best felt when strongly accelerating the drivetrain. Much less of a noticeable effect in higher gears and moderately high revs or lower revs since accelerating the mass of the vehicle is a strong portion of the engine output.
I don't follow you. Could you explain this better (turbo spoolup being faster as a result of the pulley install)? There's a big difference between "spooling up sooner RPM-wise" and "spooling up sooner time-wise because the rev climb is faster" and I am just trying to understand what you mean.
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Old 05-13-2002, 12:22 PM   #18
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Ok,

Let me try it this way. The revs build more quickly in lower gears in the lower rev range due to the reduced rotational inertia. It does nothing to aid in the turbo's spooling up.

Once the drivetrain is at steady speed any benefits of the lighter and underdriven pulley are pretty much negligible in any sense.

Once the car is in a taller gear, the benefits of the pulleys are also sensibly negligible even during acceleration.

So, to sum up, the GFB pulleys on a nearly stock car provide most of their sensible benefit down low in the lower gears. This in itself is a good thing as I find I don't have to rev the heck out of 1st to get decent pulling power after the upshift to 2nd while in traffic.

Does that help at all, Jeff?

Wilkey
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Old 05-16-2002, 02:34 PM   #19
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I just had these installed on my WRX. In the lower gears, they provide a noticeable increase in acceleration. In 5th gear, the difference isn't really noticeable.

The installer checked the voltage coming out of the alternator and it is at stock levels. To me, this is a real advantage over other underdriven pulleys which underdrive the the alternator.

Rich
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Old 05-16-2002, 05:14 PM   #20
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Wow. This post finally caught on.

Rich10, your installer got the same voltage out of the alternator as before the install? I find that suprising.

I also appreciate that I don't have to worry as much because of the smaller alternator wheel, but I still think its slightly underdriven. At night, when I pull up to a light and the engine is idling I can see the headlights and dashboard lights dim, only to brighten once I hit the gas.

JYH
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Old 05-16-2002, 05:23 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by BluJay

Rich10, your installer got the same voltage out of the alternator as before the install? I find that suprising.

JYH
Actually, that's what I expected. Since the alternator pulley is smaller, with the smaller crank pulley the smaller alternator pulley is being driven at the same speed as the stock alternator pulley with the stock crank pulley. The installer, who had installed a number of other WRX under drive pulleys, said that this was the first pulley set for the WRX that gave the same voltage out of the alternator as the stock pulleys.

Rich
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Old 05-16-2002, 05:31 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ginseng
Let me try it this way. The revs build more quickly in lower gears in the lower rev range due to the reduced rotational inertia. It does nothing to aid in the turbo's spooling up.

Once the drivetrain is at steady speed any benefits of the lighter and underdriven pulley are pretty much negligible in any sense.

Once the car is in a taller gear, the benefits of the pulleys are also sensibly negligible even during acceleration.

So, to sum up, the GFB pulleys on a nearly stock car provide most of their sensible benefit down low in the lower gears. This in itself is a good thing as I find I don't have to rev the heck out of 1st to get decent pulling power after the upshift to 2nd while in traffic.

Does that help at all, Jeff?
*light starts dawning*

Kinda, and thank you for bearing with my lack of experience. I've been trying to wrap my head around lightened flywheel/pulley benefits for awhile now. So, the benefits from lightened rotational parts like a flywheel or crankshaft pulley are uniform across the powerband but are just less noticeable in higher gears and thus slower-climbing revs. I get what you're saying about the gearing effect, and that's a good part of the missing link I've been struggling with. It's making more sense to me now.

EDIT: So, what about harmonic dampening concerns and drivetrain warranties? Not concerned?

Last edited by jblaine; 05-16-2002 at 05:38 PM.
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Old 05-16-2002, 07:51 PM   #23
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Jeff,

I was also concerned about the harmonic damping effect of the stock crank pulley but now that I've got it off and can get a look at it, I'm not that concerned. There is, in fact, a thin rubber gasket or sleeve between the inner and outer annulus of the pulley but it's very thin. I don't imagine it would be very effective in damping out destructive-level vibrations. Rather, it probably serves to filter out some of the higher level vibration in the drivetrain. I think that with the significantly lighter weight of the GFB pulley, there is actually less stress at the crank. As for warranties, who knows when allightning bolt might hit?

I am quite interested in a lightened flywheel as well. The next logical extension beyond that is the driveshaft...but I don't think the cost benefit is there for me. In the drivetrain, acceleration of the rotating mass is a key part of what sucks up power. Recall, F=MA. And since T=FL, the key benefit of the pulleys is in torque. That the GFB increases low end torque makes sense. That it's effects are felt almost not at all at steady running speeds also makes sense. In that case, wind drag, bearing friction and tire friction are what eat energy.

I'd recommend these. But don't attempt it without an air wrench.

Wilkey
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Old 06-17-2002, 05:58 PM   #24
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I just put a set of these on my rs. While not a huge difference, it is noticable. My car just feels a little quicker, although it's also much easier to redline the car now... just revs so quickly and easily!

The only downside is that the AC is definately affected. This is only bad since right now it's getting hot and muggy here (strangely). I rarely put the AC on beyond 2, but now keep it at 3 or 4 sometimes.

Still, I like the mod... plus, makes the engine look nicer
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Old 06-17-2002, 10:16 PM   #25
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I have also noticed that it does pretty noticeably affect the AC. I find that if it's really hot, I have to sometimes stay one gear lower just to keep revs up so I can stay cool.

Maybe when I get a lightened flywheel I'll put back the stockers...either that or maybe someone can recommend a lightened but not underdriven unit.

Wilkey
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