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Old 06-09-2007, 01:51 AM   #1
Got Boost?
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Default convince me to buy a hydra

I am really looking into a Hydra with hydramist system. I am not to familiar with the Hydra and have both pages of threads in this area. For those of you that have made the leap, was it really worth it? If so what really makes it shine? How hard is it to switch maps? I know the customer service is there for it as I was introduced to Phil last year at SEMA via Garret at Worldone. Both guys are super nice and were pleased to answer any questions I had at the time. Sorry for sounding like a noob .... But I am really debating doing this or ditching my Cobb and jumping on the Open Source bandwagon. If it helps, here is what is done to my car for drivetrain upgrades......

06 sti with 18k miles on it
new shortblock with CP pistons (long story)
Frank 50 w/8cm hotside ... internally gated
APS dr525 fmic
APS turbo inlet
APS cai
PE 850cc injectors
walboro pump
koyo radiator
Invidia dp
Espilir exhaust
ACPT cf driveshaft
Cobb AP w/protune

I live in vegas + crappy 91 gas and summer heat of 115 degrees = the reason I am looking to meth. sorry for the long read and appreciate any input
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Old 06-10-2007, 06:19 AM   #2
keaniegenie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Got Boost? View Post
I am really looking into a Hydra with hydramist system. I am not to familiar with the Hydra and have both pages of threads in this area. For those of you that have made the leap, was it really worth it? If so what really makes it shine? How hard is it to switch maps? I know the customer service is there for it as I was introduced to Phil last year at SEMA via Garret at Worldone. Both guys are super nice and were pleased to answer any questions I had at the time. Sorry for sounding like a noob .... But I am really debating doing this or ditching my Cobb and jumping on the Open Source bandwagon. If it helps, here is what is done to my car for drivetrain upgrades......

06 sti with 18k miles on it
new shortblock with CP pistons (long story)
Frank 50 w/8cm hotside ... internally gated
APS dr525 fmic
APS turbo inlet
APS cai
PE 850cc injectors
walboro pump
koyo radiator
Invidia dp
Espilir exhaust
ACPT cf driveshaft
Cobb AP w/protune

I live in vegas + crappy 91 gas and summer heat of 115 degrees = the reason I am looking to meth. sorry for the long read and appreciate any input
Owning a Hydra has many, many perks.

The one thing you'll find is that the farther down the mod path you go, the more happy you are with your Hydra.

I got my Hydra first just so I could run AVCS on my 2.5l swap easily. Later, it allowed me to run the Hydramist.

With the speed density, I plan on later running a reverse intake manifold with a custom intake tract. This is the kind of stuff you can't do without an EM like this.

Not to mention that Phil is the best tuner in the subie community IMO.

I deal with Garret at World One all the time. The sooner you rely on those two for advice and tips, the better off you'll be on your build.

Keane
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Old 06-11-2007, 11:52 AM   #3
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personally i am a noob also and my situation presents me as such but here is what i think about the whole thing.
i installed fp big 16g turbo
pe 650cc injectors
walbro fuel pump
and all the other bolt ons. then i got my car dyno'd in naperville Illinois at Genesis Racing Development. I want to stop there and let everyone know they are a joke. do not goto them. My power reading were less then when i was stock. out of frustration we started doing the engineuity thing and i believe that the software being a beta version froze on a reflash and fried my ecu. i think the program has potential but everytime you reflash you kill a little more of your ecu and well its just not worth it. also on that note the cobb is good to a point but i dont think it is practical for exspansive upgrades. granted cobbs time attack car runs ap but i dont like it. if you are looking to "go big or go home" you might as well invest in the best and hydra is the best.
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Old 06-11-2007, 08:19 PM   #4
THE-95-STi
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Let me put this in simple Terms, your best EM $ for $, as far as future plans and mods go

Small bolts-ons(with no serious future plans)=Piggback/Flash

Small/Big bolt ons(Engine build/turbo upgrades)=Hydra
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Old 06-13-2007, 02:37 AM   #5
VAUGHNB19
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just got my hydra installed in my hybrid(rs turbo with sti shortblock)..had a little problems installing and turns out we found other mechanical problems with my car which was after installing the hydra..it like the hydra found the problems that was always there but never known with my stock ecu and apexi neo with my mods...

if i got this system later, then i prolly would have blown my new motor...
one problem was that my car was running like crap when i installed the hydra only because of my mechanical issues that seemed like the hydra found.which were the timing belts were ready to snap cuz it was rubbing off something due to the bad timing belt tensioner that was now replaced...
bare with me how i repeat myself..hehe..and we found out that there was 2 leaks..

car now is still runing rich but will be ready to be tuned professionally on the dyno in 2 weeks, with that said that mechanically my car now is all good..

but yes, if you plan to do many mods, which we will always will and want more, then get this system.....my hybrid runs so smooth i love it!!! just cant wait til the dyno!!!
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Old 06-18-2007, 02:57 PM   #6
Got Boost?
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I am a little hesitant due to some stuff I was told about the hydra.... like it will stall out of nowhere and sometimes not immediately restart. Is there any truth to this? My car runs very well now (377whp on mustang dyno, 91oct,) and I like how easy it is to switch real time maps. How much work is it to switch maps on the hydra?
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Old 06-18-2007, 04:37 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Got Boost? View Post
I am a little hesitant due to some stuff I was told about the hydra.... like it will stall out of nowhere and sometimes not immediately restart. Is there any truth to this? My car runs very well now (377whp on mustang dyno, 91oct,) and I like how easy it is to switch real time maps. How much work is it to switch maps on the hydra?
Kind of. If the map isn't good, this could happen. I don't know about the "not immediately restart" part. That sounds more like a function of the electrical system.

Fully tuned, especially from Phil, will run like it came from the factory. It's all in the tune.
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Old 06-18-2007, 06:30 PM   #8
RemlapaN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Got Boost? View Post
I am a little hesitant due to some stuff I was told about the hydra.... like it will stall out of nowhere and sometimes not immediately restart. Is there any truth to this? My car runs very well now (377whp on mustang dyno, 91oct,) and I like how easy it is to switch real time maps. How much work is it to switch maps on the hydra?
The thing is, why would you want to switch maps real time? With the hydra you do have the ability to run two fuel maps and two spark maps, which can be toggled by grounding a wire in the harness, but in reality you do not need multiple maps unless you switch between race gas and pump daily.

If you use an aftermarket EBCS, you can just raise / lower the boost without needing to change your hydra's map since it uses MAP as the fuel load site. So you could run 20psi and 15psi (or anything in between) using the same Hydra map, and just change the settings on your EBCS.

The biggest thing I liked about the Hydra is the consistency. The stock ECU had its good days, and its bad days regarding performance. With the hydra, it is what it is assuming you do not get a bad batch of gas. I've been using a Hydra in my car for over 2 years now, and have had ZERO problems. I drive my car every day, and it has never failed to start in any weather condition from -10 to 100 degree weather, and never broke down on the road.

I did have one instance where an intercooler coupler came off, but sinec the Hydra uses speed density I was able to (carefully) drive the car home even with a massive boost leak. With the stock ECU I would have been calling a tow truck.
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Old 06-18-2007, 11:18 PM   #9
Got Boost?
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I would like a couple different maps due to the fact that we have incredibly crappy gas in Vegas... and 100 unleaded at the pump can be hard to get a hold of sometimes. I also would like to have a valet map like I have now.... same protune as what my current map is, but it only revs to 3k and does not boost.
I also would like to have meth/no meth maps. It was 119 degrees today and I was getting a little knock, hence the reason I would also be going with a hydramist.... to help out during the summer months.

thanks for the time and sorry if the questions are dumb. Its just a lot of paper to drop on an EM/meth system, and wanna make sure I know what I am getting myself into before its too late.

for a boost controller, I will prolly end up going with the Apex AVCR. My buddy has one, and it is nice and easy to use.
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Old 06-18-2007, 11:23 PM   #10
RemlapaN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Got Boost? View Post
I would like a couple different maps due to the fact that we have incredibly crappy gas in Vegas... and 100 unleaded at the pump can be hard to get a hold of sometimes.
This would normally be addressed by lowering your boost, not by changing fuel maps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Got Boost? View Post
I also would like to have a valet map like I have now.... same protune as what my current map is, but it only revs to 3k and does not boost.
I believe the newer Hydras have a Valet feature, so you can turn it on and off with a toggle switch you hide somewhere. It will not be built-in, and will need some wiring done, but I am fairly certain it is doable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Got Boost? View Post
I also would like to have meth/no meth maps. It was 119 degrees today and I was getting a little knock, hence the reason I would also be going with a hydramist.... to help out during the summer months.
The fuel maps are the same, the spark maps are the same (not really, but for the current conversation they are), you would only Ideally want to raise boost for meth, or lower it for non-meth once the car is tuned and set up for a hydramist. When the hydra is properly set up, it will automatically change your fuel maps and spark maps when your meth injection turns on, and revert to your base maps if the meth is turned off, or it fails and does not spray.

I would highly recommend a separate EBCS (boost controller) for what you are wanting to do, because for the most part, you would never need to swap maps in the Hydra with an EBCS. Bad gas? Lower the boost via the EBCS. Valet? Set it to wastegate pressure. Meth? Raise the boost via EBCS.

The turbosmart e-boost2 is a very nice ebcs that a lot of hydra owners are using. AVC-R is probably easier for the end-user, but my understanding is it takes a bit longer for the tuner to get it working with the hydra.

EDIT: The short answer to your question is it takes 1 Laptop and 30 seconds to change the maps in a Hydra, but this is rarely needed except for switching between race fuel and pump fuel. For most other situations, simply raising and lowering the boost via an EBCS will do everything you are asking about.
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Old 06-18-2007, 11:38 PM   #11
Got Boost?
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so I could up the boost and the Hydra would auto compensate everything else, assuming the knock count allowed it to do so? I am really starting to like the ease of how this sounds. For a race gas map, do I change a real time map or flash a new base map on? I am also assuming that the Hydra will compensate for barometric pressure as well, because I go to California often... 2000 ft elevation change + humidity. If all of this is true, I can already feel the $ being spent well worth it
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Old 06-18-2007, 11:51 PM   #12
RemlapaN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Got Boost? View Post
so I could up the boost and the Hydra would auto compensate everything else, assuming the knock count allowed it to do so?
Well, its not QUITE that simple, basically... your tuner would tune the car for up to 20psi lets say. So you would be safe running anything below 20psi, and assuming your fuel map is set up properly, you could run anything between 0 psi and 20psi without having to deal with any map changes at all, just changing boost. It is all in the setup and thoroughness of the tuning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Got Boost? View Post
I am really starting to like the ease of how this sounds. For a race gas map, do I change a real time map or flash a new base map on?
There is no "real time map" or "base map" distinction. There is only a primary map, a backup (failsafe under knock), and auxilary. The aux map is used for meth injection if you have it. So in order to change to race gas, you would just download your race map to the hydra, and re-download the pump map when you want to go back to pump gas.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Got Boost? View Post
I am also assuming that the Hydra will compensate for barometric pressure as well, because I go to California often... 2000 ft elevation change + humidity. If all of this is true, I can already feel the $ being spent well worth it
They probably do not come with this standard, but I believe altitude compensation could be done if really needed, I dont know if anyone has tried it. Phil is the person to ask for that sort of thing.


The biggest thing about any standalone ECU is it all revolves around the setup, and the tuning. If enough time is spent scaling your fuel maps and hitting all the load sites, you can literally have one single map that will let your car run perfectly from 0psi to 20psi with anything in between. At the same time, if the fuel map is not right, your car can run good at 20psi, rich at 17psi, and lean at 15psi (or any other variation)...

I would recommend reading all the guides at www.elementtuning.com, as they help give you an idea what it does and does not do, and gives pictures of the interface, and a ton of information. Element Tuning is the reason hydra ecu's are so popular in STi's. Their base maps and support is amazing.

For a stock car that always plans to stay stock, I would consider a hydra somewhat overkill. The more mods you do to your car, the more benefits you see by switching to standalone EM.
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Old 06-19-2007, 12:18 AM   #13
Got Boost?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RemlapaN View Post
Well, its not QUITE that simple, basically... your tuner would tune the car for up to 20psi lets say. So you would be safe running anything below 20psi, and assuming your fuel map is set up properly, you could run anything between 0 psi and 20psi without having to deal with any map changes at all, just changing boost. It is all in the setup and thoroughness of the tuning.


There is no "real time map" or "base map" distinction. There is only a primary map, a backup (failsafe under knock), and auxilary. The aux map is used for meth injection if you have it. So in order to change to race gas, you would just download your race map to the hydra, and re-download the pump map when you want to go back to pump gas.


They probably do not come with this standard, but I believe altitude compensation could be done if really needed, I dont know if anyone has tried it. Phil is the person to ask for that sort of thing.


The biggest thing about any standalone ECU is it all revolves around the setup, and the tuning. If enough time is spent scaling your fuel maps and hitting all the load sites, you can literally have one single map that will let your car run perfectly from 0psi to 20psi with anything in between. At the same time, if the fuel map is not right, your car can run good at 20psi, rich at 17psi, and lean at 15psi (or any other variation)...

I would recommend reading all the guides at www.elementtuning.com, as they help give you an idea what it does and does not do, and gives pictures of the interface, and a ton of information. Element Tuning is the reason hydra ecu's are so popular in STi's. Their base maps and support is amazing.

For a stock car that always plans to stay stock, I would consider a hydra somewhat overkill. The more mods you do to your car, the more benefits you see by switching to standalone EM.
thanks... I am already pretty heavily modded. see first post. I am just looking for ease of use and not have to worry about having to constantly adjust for stuff. example... the temp can change up to 40 degrees in 1 day here. I'll prolly just shoot Phil or Garret a call tomorrow and start askin questions.
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Old 06-19-2007, 12:35 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Got Boost? View Post
I am a little hesitant due to some stuff I was told about the hydra.... like it will stall out of nowhere and sometimes not immediately restart. Is there any truth to this? My car runs very well now (377whp on mustang dyno, 91oct,) and I like how easy it is to switch real time maps. How much work is it to switch maps on the hydra?

Dear Got Boost,

You have over 350 wheel horses.

You just said, "My car runs very well now...and I like how easy it is to switch real time maps." in the same sentence.

The rumors you mention above may have more to do with the tuning abilities of certain tuners. In other words, they might be blaming the Hydra for their own lack of skill/technical know-how. I don't know if there's any truth to the rumors or not.

I DO know you're making 377 WHP. If this is truly the case, your car is in a league among very few on earth. A 377 WHP all-wheel-drive that "runs very well."

Many, if not most compact cars with 377 hp are not very streetable, and can only be purpose-driven at a track, etc.

If you plan to constantly upgrade and tune, and you M U S T have 550 wheel horses, go with a Hydra. Just remember, you're putting a lot of faith in aftermarket tuners, not just the Hydra itself.

If you want 377 reliable horsies to throw around, it sounds like you're already there, dude.


SOTC
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Old 06-19-2007, 01:47 PM   #15
keaniegenie
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One thing to keep in mind is the apexi avcr has the ability to adjust the boost levels per gear, which is not necessary with the Hydra. The Hydra's boost controller does the same. This is why so many hydra owners use the e-boost. The e-boost is a simple, accurate boost controller that controls the peak boost levels.
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Old 06-19-2007, 02:28 PM   #16
Got Boost?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saab-on-the-cobb View Post
Dear Got Boost,

You have over 350 wheel horses.

You just said, "My car runs very well now...and I like how easy it is to switch real time maps." in the same sentence.

The rumors you mention above may have more to do with the tuning abilities of certain tuners. In other words, they might be blaming the Hydra for their own lack of skill/technical know-how. I don't know if there's any truth to the rumors or not.

I DO know you're making 377 WHP. If this is truly the case, your car is in a league among very few on earth. A 377 WHP all-wheel-drive that "runs very well."

Many, if not most compact cars with 377 hp are not very streetable, and can only be purpose-driven at a track, etc.

If you plan to constantly upgrade and tune, and you M U S T have 550 wheel horses, go with a Hydra. Just remember, you're putting a lot of faith in aftermarket tuners, not just the Hydra itself.

If you want 377 reliable horsies to throw around, it sounds like you're already there, dude.


SOTC
I don't want anymore hp unless it is by way of race gas or meth. I am happy with what I have now, and depend more on my ability to drive than the power the car is making... if that makes sense. As far as the streetable goes, it is a daily driver. But I need to really step up and get some meth or start buying better gas if I am gonna drive it in the middle of the day in the summer time.
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Old 06-19-2007, 02:29 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keaniegenie View Post
One thing to keep in mind is the apexi avcr has the ability to adjust the boost levels per gear, which is not necessary with the Hydra. The Hydra's boost controller does the same. This is why so many hydra owners use the e-boost. The e-boost is a simple, accurate boost controller that controls the peak boost levels.
thanks... that was the reason I was leaning towards the AVCR
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Old 06-19-2007, 04:19 PM   #18
Got Boost?
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just got off the phone with Element..... gotta get my stuff together. I am gonna prolly do the hydra, hydramist, launch control, and e boost controller. Then I will shoot to have Phil tune it when he comes here for SEMA. Thanks for all the help and for your time guys.
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Old 06-20-2007, 02:25 AM   #19
keaniegenie
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thanks... that was the reason I was leaning towards the AVCR
If you want a boost controller with this function and you ONLY plan on running pump + meth, I'd consider getting the Hydra with a better solenoid like the Prodrive. That's what I run and it works fine.

In the rare cases I run c16, I don't mind downloading a map via the laptop for those rare instances.
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