The Difference Between 「S-GT」 and 「WRX」

[flyinpig]

When one thinks of the performance model of the Impreza line, the 「WRX」 comes to mind. However, we have been faced with the unexpected. There is no 「WRX」 within the new Impreza line..

"I think the 'WRX=rally' image is too strong and thus awkward for the average customer to approach. We wanted to eliminate that perception by positioning the S-GT so that anyone can freely enjoy the sporty model." - Product Planning PIC Naoyuki Yamauchi

Until now, the Impreza was associated with the 「WRC」 and the 「WRX」 was the model that was under the spotlight and that had a cult-like following. However, the reality is that trying to increase sales by counting on the WRX to become a high volume seller was a hindrance. Therefore, with the 3rd generation of Imprezas we have changed our stance and have abandoned the WRX name.

"We hope to gain a broader customer base that can enjoy the sensation of this turbo car. The ride feel will be sporty and enjoyable, and not overly rigid (like the WRX)" - Yamauchi

But Subaru understands that fans will not approve of that alone. So we have prepared a special model that will be introduced later.

http://response.jp/issue/2007/0607/article95554_1.html

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[only1agam]

Originally Posted by flyinpig

When one thinks of the performance model of the Impreza line, the 「WRX」 comes to mind. However, we have been faced with the unexpected. There is no 「WRX」 within the new Impreza line..

"I think the 'WRX=rally' image is too strong and thus awkward for the average customer to approach. We wanted to eliminate that perception by positioning the S-GT so that anyone can freely enjoy the sporty model." - Product Planning PIC Naoyuki Yamauchi

Until now, the Impreza was associated with the 「WRC」 and the 「WRX」 was the model that was under the spotlight and that had a cult-like following. However, the reality is that trying to increase sales by counting on the WRX to become a high volume seller was a hindrance. Therefore, with the 3rd generation of Imprezas we have changed our stance and have abandoned the WRX name.

"We hope to gain a broader customer base that can enjoy the sensation of this turbo car. The ride feel will be sporty and enjoyable, and not overly rigid (like the WRX)" - Yamauchi

But Subaru understands that fans will not approve of that alone. So we have prepared a special model that will be introduced later.

http://response.jp/issue/2007/0607/article95554_1.html

the STI

[Superglue WRX]

Wow, so they feel the WRC image scared off Japanese buyers?.... I guess I could see that. WRC cars are a very intimdating image. Well, as long as it's a better ride than the outgoing model, only the image whores and those concerned with status will be affected by the change.

And it's been long enough to where people should have figured out by now that the WRX is only the middle of the road model. The STI version is meant for the track.

[rsholland]

Originally Posted by Superglue WRX

Wow, so they feel the WRC image scared off Japanese buyers?.... I guess I could see that. WRC cars are a very intimdating image. Well, as long as it's a better ride than the outgoing model, only the image whores and those concerned with status will be affected by the change.

And it's been long enough to where people should have figured out by now that the WRX is only the middle of the road model. The STI version is meant for the track.

Scared off? Hardly. They're looking for more customers. The WRX image carries with it certain baggage that many "potential" customers want no part of. The name change was a business decision, pure and simple.

Bob

[shirokuma]

There was actually a huge political battle within Subaru to even retain the Impreza name. Many people wanted to drop that as well, and start this new model with as little baggage as possible.

A lot of that has to do with the sales of the Impreza in Japan and possibly other countries besides America. Which have been dismal, to say the least. The vast majority of car buyers buy cars for such mundane needs such as getting from point a to point b, for carrying kids around, shopping, etc. The percentage that buy them to go quick through winding roads like Solberg is, well, small. And those people that did buy the cars for such heritage and purpose were buying the STI.

According to the dealers here, it was a good move. Cars are selling much, much better than when the GDA (the previous Impreza) was released. They are flying out the door in record numbers, in other words. So maybe the marketers were right this time. Or more accurately, maybe the brass at SOJ finally listened to what the marketers and the public were actually saying.

Cheers,

Paul Hansen
www.sevenphotos.com

[aspera]

Well that's stupid. Why have they spent millions in the WRC and rally in general if they didn't want 'WRX' to equal 'rally'? Why did they name the car WRX in the first place? Stoopid, stoopid, stoopid. Now Yamauchi want to throw all that model recognition away and give it a boring S-GT name. The Impreza isn't even a GT car!

This guy is a product planner? When you have a 'cult-like following" you don't start screwing with stuff. Notice they didn't ditch the Impreza model name. Well, not yet.

It sounds like the production planner just looked at Toyota and copied them. GT-S turns into S-GT. Maybe his next trick will be to change the Impreza name into something more popular like Camry or Accord. Camcorder?

[rsholland]

Originally Posted by shirokuma

There was actually a huge political battle within Subaru to even retain the Impreza name. Many people wanted to drop that as well, and start this new model with as little baggage as possible.

A lot of that has to do with the sales of the Impreza in Japan and possibly other countries besides America. Which have been dismal, to say the least. The vast majority of car buyers buy cars for such mundane needs such as getting from point a to point b, for carrying kids around, shopping, etc. The percentage that buy them to go quick through winding roads like Solberg is, well, small. And those people that did buy the cars for such heritage and purpose were buying the STI.

According to the dealers here, it was a good move. Cars are selling much, much better than when the GDA (the previous Impreza) was released. They are flying out the door in record numbers, in other words. So maybe the marketers were right this time. Or more accurately, maybe the brass at SOJ finally listened to what the marketers and the public were actually saying.

Cheers,

Paul Hansen
www.sevenphotos.com

Good to hear Paul. Thanks. It wouldn't surprise me if the label "S-GT" replaces "WRX" globally at some point.


Bob

[Mike Wevrick]

Originally Posted by shirokuma

A lot of that has to do with the sales of the Impreza in Japan and possibly other countries besides America. Which have been dismal, to say the least. The vast majority of car buyers buy cars for such mundane needs such as getting from point a to point b, for carrying kids around, shopping, etc. The percentage that buy them to go quick through winding roads like Solberg is, well, small. And those people that did buy the cars for such heritage and purpose were buying the STI.

I'm not sure I buy this reasoning. I bought my WRX because it is both fun to drive and practical. The STI is too extreme for my needs (not to mention much more expensive.) I don't see how the Impreza can compete as just a mundane A-to-B car. I see that sort of marketing as a big problem with the Legacy GT; the Legacy is sold as a mundane family car and very few people even know what the GT is capable of.

[LastResort]

I see an end coming for SWRT if they are trying to break away from the rally image. Nothing like spending millions of dollars on a rally image, one that you are still developing in the states with the X-games, and trying to suddenly ditch that image.

[shirokuma]

The STI isn't dead, it's just the WRX nameplate. And this may be only for Japan - America is simply and completely a different market with different needs. Such as needing a Sedan when every other market will only get the hatch.

Subaru was actually known for something besides rallying, and that was for affordable, tough, and useable AWD vehicles that could go nearly anywhere most users needed to go. The most common dealers in the mountainous countrysides of Japan are Subaru dealers.

America is unique and strange case when it comes to the WRX and to turbocharged models. They came late to that (this, depending on your pov) market spearheaded by a videogame, Gran Turismo. The turbo models in Japan, Australia, and the UK have been around since the late 80's, so the entire concept has been played out for a while.

'm not sure I buy this reasoning. I bought my WRX because it is both fun to drive and practical. The STI is too extreme for my needs (not to mention much more expensive.) I don't see how the Impreza can compete as just a mundane A-to-B car.

The most popular modified car in Japan, tracked by sales through the 550 Autobacs outlets across Japan, is the turbocharged Legacy models. When the Japanese audience buys a practical but fun-to-drive vehicle, they buy a Legacy GT wagon, usually automatic. The price was not hugely different from an optioned out WRX automatic turbo, and in exchange you got a 276hp twinscroll, a better interior, more space.

Subaru needed to really differentiate the Impreza this time around to simply have it make sense for the public to buy it instead of the Legacy.

Cheers,

Paul Hansen
www.sevenphotos.com

[aspera]

Originally Posted by shirokuma

According to the dealers here, it was a good move. Cars are selling much, much better than when the GDA (the previous Impreza) was released. They are flying out the door in record numbers, in other words. So maybe the marketers were right this time. Or more accurately, maybe the brass at SOJ finally listened to what the marketers and the public were actually saying.

...or the third generation Impreza is physically more different from the 'New Age' Impreza than it was from the original GC cars. Or, the new Impreza is just facing different competition than the GD was in 2001.

Imagine the response if they finally listened and made a 2 door STi...something never seen in North America. I'll even suggest a reversed Toyota-cribbed name. 5-SR!

Seriously though, one man's 'baggage' is another man's 'legacy' (and I think it is hilarious that the handful of cars badged with a nonsensical '22B' means more to Subaru's image than all of the cars badged 'Legacy'). My opinion is that Subaru should be very careful with what they discard. They've already abandoned all 2 door Imprezas. Now they are taking a big step away from 4 door Imprezas towards hatchbacks. They are ditching the WRX name in some markets, and they continue to change the looks of the car frequently. The flared fenders on the new WRX are also deleted. My guess is that they want to get rid of the trademark hoodscoop, but just can't risk it. They did tone it down for the new WRX, and integrate it into a steel hood instead of an aluminum one, though. Very Toyota-like.

The odd thing is that they're setting the STi up to be the ONLY car in the Impreza line-up that gets a large number of radical performance modifications. Since the cost of those upgraded parts won't be shared with lesser Imprezas, the STi's price will go up. That will make it harder for the STi to compete in the marketplace.

My opinion is that if the STi is going to be a radically altered Impreza built with performance as the number one goal, it needs to be a two door with flared fenders. In short, the least Toyota-like car Subaru can build. Toyota already builds Toyotas.

[Nails1]

The quotes from Subaru about their vision for this new Impreza are really mind-blowing to me living in the N. American market. The "WRX" brand is more highly recognizied and desirable than any other nameplate Subaru has ever produced in this market. I mean, does anyone actually refer to their WRX as an Impreza? Not really, right? It's a WRX! "WRX" has brought legions of new Subaru buyers into the showroom (myself being one of them). The "WRX" WRC connection/image was the bait and the engineering and driving experience of Subaru product sealed the deal.

That the WRX brand could be considered by Subaru a liability to the point where they drop the name entirely is just incomprehensible. In my opinion, WRX is to Subaru as Mustang is to Ford as Corvette is to Chevy.

This new attitude by Subaru sure explains a lot about the style of the new Impreza which was/is so vexing to most of us. Shooting for the mainstream and suppressing aggressive styling cues is what the new design is all about. From their standpoint, the new car fits perfectly with their new vision for the Impreza.

You just have to wonder why Subaru marketing is oh so inept. Purposely eliminating the WRX brand will prove to be a major mistake for Subaru. Mark my words.

[keepclam]

Originally Posted by Nails1

In my opinion, WRX is to Subaru as Mustang is to Ford as Corvette is to Chevy.

Would you be heartbroken if Ford changed the Mustang name in Japan, or Chevy changed the Corvette name in Japan? Who cares if Subaru of Japan doesn't have an Impreza trim called WRX, but has an S-GT trim instead? Not I. I certainly don't understand the Japanese market well enough to ridicule Subaru for changing the name there.

[SoDealer]

Originally Posted by aspera

...or the third generation Impreza is physically more different from the 'New Age' Impreza than it was from the original GC cars. Or, the new Impreza is just facing different competition than the GD was in 2001.

Imagine the response if they finally listened and made a 2 door STi...something never seen in North America. I'll even suggest a reversed Toyota-cribbed name. 5-SR!

Seriously though, one man's 'baggage' is another man's 'legacy' (and I think it is hilarious that the handful of cars badged with a nonsensical '22B' means more to Subaru's image than all of the cars badged 'Legacy'). My opinion is that Subaru should be very careful with what they discard. They've already abandoned all 2 door Imprezas. Now they are taking a big step away from 4 door Imprezas towards hatchbacks. They are ditching the WRX name in some markets, and they continue to change the looks of the car frequently. The flared fenders on the new WRX are also deleted. My guess is that they want to get rid of the trademark hoodscoop, but just can't risk it. They did tone it down for the new WRX, and integrate it into a steel hood instead of an aluminum one, though. Very Toyota-like.

The odd thing is that they're setting the STi up to be the ONLY car in the Impreza line-up that gets a large number of radical performance modifications. Since the cost of those upgraded parts won't be shared with lesser Imprezas, the STi's price will go up. That will make it harder for the STi to compete in the marketplace.

My opinion is that if the STi is going to be a radically altered Impreza built with performance as the number one goal, it needs to be a two door with flared fenders. In short, the least Toyota-like car Subaru can build. Toyota already builds Toyotas.

I read this and think... utter garbage from someone who doesn't have a clue

Originally Posted by Nails1

The quotes from Subaru about their vision for this new Impreza are really mind-blowing to me living in the N. American market. The "WRX" brand is more highly recognizied and desirable than any other nameplate Subaru has ever produced in this market. I mean, does anyone actually refer to their WRX as an Impreza? Not really, right? It's a WRX! "WRX" has brought legions of new Subaru buyers into the showroom (myself being one of them). The "WRX" WRC connection/image was the bait and the engineering and driving experience of Subaru product sealed the deal.

That the WRX brand could be considered by Subaru a liability to the point where they drop the name entirely is just incomprehensible. In my opinion, WRX is to Subaru as Mustang is to Ford as Corvette is to Chevy.

This new attitude by Subaru sure explains a lot about the style of the new Impreza which was/is so vexing to most of us. Shooting for the mainstream and suppressing aggressive styling cues is what the new design is all about. From their standpoint, the new car fits perfectly with their new vision for the Impreza.

You just have to wonder why Subaru marketing is oh so inept. Purposely eliminating the WRX brand will prove to be a major mistake for Subaru. Mark my words.

Also more garbage... You and your peers may identify Subaru with WRX... but the vast majority of American buyers identify Subaru with Wagons, Outback, and Paul Hogan. WRX brought new people to the brand yes... but Outback is solely responsible for Subaru existing in the US today. WRX is a drop in the pond compared to Forester and Outback. WRX does have brand equity in the US... which is why the name isn't dropped here. I can't wait for the first full year of sales so i can piss Elm off by digging up these old threads and saying... I told you so. For once... Subaru is really putting a huge effort into following consumer trends... and is doing a good job of separating fact from Bull*****. Unfortunately on Nasioc... there's a lot more of the latter.

[EBWRC#1]

I'm just trying to understand Subaru and don't get upset about it...

[EBWRC#1]

Originally Posted by SoDealer

I read this and think... utter garbage from someone who doesn't have a clue



Also more garbage... You and your peers may identify Subaru with WRX... but the vast majority of American buyers identify Subaru with Wagons, Outback, and Paul Hogan. WRX brought new people to the brand yes... but Outback is solely responsible for Subaru existing in the US today. WRX is a drop in the pond compared to Forester and Outback. WRX does have brand equity in the US... which is why the name isn't dropped here. I can't wait for the first full year of sales so i can piss Elm off by digging up these old threads and saying... I told you so. For once... Subaru is really putting a huge effort into following consumer trends... and is doing a good job of separating fact from Bull*****. Unfortunately on Nasioc... there's a lot more of the latter.

To add to this statement, if you visit Oregon, Washington or Colorado (just as an example), I'll bet that for every 10 cars you see at the road, 5 are Subarus and I'm not talking about WRXs or STI's, I'm talking of Outbacks and Foresters like crazy!

[supermarkus]

Originally Posted by EBWRC#1

To add to this statement, if you visit Oregon, Washington or Colorado (just as an example), I'll bet that for every 10 cars you see at the road, 5 are Subarus and I'm not talking about WRXs or STI's, I'm talking of Outbacks and Foresters like crazy!

This is absolutely true, I'm betting the Northeast is the same way. Hell, in Australia, I saw way more Liberties and Foresters than WRX variants. Believe it or not the WRX didn't build this brand, it built on the fan base, but Subaru doesn't owe it's life to those three letters.

[Superglue WRX]

Originally Posted by SoDealer

I read this and think... utter garbage from someone who doesn't have a clue



Also more garbage... You and your peers may identify Subaru with WRX... but the vast majority of American buyers identify Subaru with Wagons, Outback, and Paul Hogan. WRX brought new people to the brand yes... but Outback is solely responsible for Subaru existing in the US today. WRX is a drop in the pond compared to Forester and Outback. WRX does have brand equity in the US... which is why the name isn't dropped here. I can't wait for the first full year of sales so i can piss Elm off by digging up these old threads and saying... I told you so. For once... Subaru is really putting a huge effort into following consumer trends... and is doing a good job of separating fact from Bull*****. Unfortunately on Nasioc... there's a lot more of the latter.

No, what Subaru should do is actually drop the Impreza name and simply call it the WRX. And then they should make it a 2 door fastback so only the manliest men will want it. And give it 270hp. And 2 foot wide fender flares so you know it's hella fast. I bet they sell up to 5,000 in the first year. Subaru will make a kagillion dollars in profit

[mapleleaf]

Originally Posted by supermarkus

This is absolutely true, I'm betting the Northeast is the same way. Hell, in Australia, I saw way more Liberties and Foresters than WRX variants. Believe it or not the WRX didn't build this brand, it built on the fan base, but Subaru doesn't owe it's life to those three letters.

Atlantic Canada is full of Suby's, mostly Legacys, Outbacks and Foresters. We also seem to have the highest concentration of WRX's out of anywhere I have spent time in NA.
I personally was a Volvo guy before Subaru. A Subaru dealership is the last place I would ever imagine myself visiting until I saw the first bug eye WRX. After that, I was kind of hooked. I even considered buying a Legacy after the GT was released.
Subaru's NA market and the rest of the Global market are two totally different birds.

[SublimeGTP]

I can see the decision in Japan. Imagine trying to market a car in the US to potential BMW buyers, when its name is associated with NASCAR.

I don't see the WRX name going away in the US, at least not for the same reason. First its too valuable, more so than even Impreza. I tell people I drive an Impreza and I often get a blank stare, tell them it's a WRX and it registers. Second, the WRX name is not associated with WRC in the US. The general population of the US has not even heard of WRC, or at best it's filed in their brains under "obscure motorsports" in between demolition derby and school bus racing.

If the WRX name is dropped in the US it will be because Subaru tries to go up market and sell their cars against Audi, rather than VW... Volvo rather than Mazda. The WRX name in the US is associated with the "Fast and Furious" crowd, people shopping for Audi's and Volvo's pay extra just to not be lumped in to a category like that.

[pete_falcone]

Purely marketing decision that has no bearing on the performance of the cars, and that's what truly matters. Besides, some people around here debadge their cars anyway.

[rsholland]

I live not far from Baltimore and Washington. Here in this populated area WRXs are indeed popular. However, if you go out to Cumberland in western Maryland, you rarely see any WRXs. In fact, I was at the Subie dealer there once, and they said they stock very few WRXs—and forget about STIs...

What a lot of NASIOCers forget is that this is a big country. Once you get far outside the urban centers, people buy Foresters, Outback and other "practical" Subarus, not WRXs or STIs.

Bob

[akoshy]

Originally Posted by shirokuma

According to the dealers here, it was a good move. Cars are selling much, much better than when the GDA (the previous Impreza) was released. They are flying out the door in record numbers, in other words. So maybe the marketers were right this time. Or more accurately, maybe the brass at SOJ finally listened to what the marketers and the public were actually saying.

I feel it is a little early in the game to make the determination that sales of the new model are strong at release, simply because the brand-name WRX was dropped and the unknown brand-name "S-GT" was adopted.

The sales surge at release could have been due to any number of reasons and might have nothing whatsoever to do with the change in brandname.

[akoshy]

Originally Posted by Nails1

The quotes from Subaru about their vision for this new Impreza are really mind-blowing to me living in the N. American market. The "WRX" brand is more highly recognizied and desirable than any other nameplate Subaru has ever produced in this market. I mean, does anyone actually refer to their WRX as an Impreza? Not really, right? It's a WRX! "WRX" has brought legions of new Subaru buyers into the showroom (myself being one of them). The "WRX" WRC connection/image was the bait and the engineering and driving experience of Subaru product sealed the deal.

That the WRX brand could be considered by Subaru a liability to the point where they drop the name entirely is just incomprehensible. In my opinion, WRX is to Subaru as Mustang is to Ford as Corvette is to Chevy.

This new attitude by Subaru sure explains a lot about the style of the new Impreza which was/is so vexing to most of us. Shooting for the mainstream and suppressing aggressive styling cues is what the new design is all about. From their standpoint, the new car fits perfectly with their new vision for the Impreza.

You just have to wonder why Subaru marketing is oh so inept. Purposely eliminating the WRX brand will prove to be a major mistake for Subaru. Mark my words.

I completely agree with all of the above. The Paul Hogan advertising was the first time I even looked at a Subaru product. But when the WRX came out, that was when I seriously thought about buying a Subaru product, which led me to my original 2002 WRX bugeye.

I think the Subaru "marketing dept" in their infinite wisdom, initially projected selling just 10,000 of those bugeye WRXs but was "persuaded" by the marketplace to bring in 250% more than their projections.

Having said all of that, maybe the Japanese market is uniquely different from the US and maybe the introduction of the S-GT name might help them, unlike in the US market. But changing the WRX brandname to the unknown S-GT is a surefire recipe for failure in the US for the Impreza product line.

[cefoskey]

If rally inspired designs scared customers away, why were they marketing their cars as specifically being rally inspired?

Hell, even the new lancer gets touted on billboards as being "rally inspired." Mitsubishi isnt scared of scaring away customers with a performance oriented image, even on their lowly commuter lancer models.