Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Thursday April 17, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-27-2012, 09:19 PM   #226
spinningcain
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 176490
Join Date: Apr 2008
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: Las Vegas
Vehicle:
2005 STI
WRB

Default

Nice man
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
spinningcain is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2012, 09:54 PM   #227
Uncle Scotty
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 16200
Join Date: Mar 2002
Vehicle:
OK Houston
we have an Uncle

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ColesSTi View Post
I have kstech 16mm tgv spacers so I can reverse my intake manifold but have a pipe under still to the turbo
people like you need to stay outta these threads so you dont confuse the n00bs here

what YOU have and do is about 99.9% irrelevant to any of the rest of us, here
Uncle Scotty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2012, 11:50 PM   #228
ColesSTi
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 99205
Join Date: Oct 2005
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: La Plata, MD
Vehicle:
2005 Impreza WRX
Blue, Stars & pleques

Default

I started this thread so I don't care. They are going to have to learn some how.
ColesSTi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2012, 01:28 AM   #229
Ub3rD0rk
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 293408
Join Date: Sep 2011
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Norwalk CA
Vehicle:
7003 WRX/VW
Metal

Default

My turn to beat this horse.

I think what ColesSTi said has been misunderstood. Raising manifold temperatures slightly will help to atomize fuel with the lower intake velocity at lower RPMs. This will increase fuel economy in the RPM range most people drive in, and also slightly increase low end torque. Cooler intake temperatures will cause the fuel inside the manifold to condensate, and thus kill efficiency at low RPM. Lowering manifold temperatures will help with combustion temperatures at high RPM allowing more boost, timing, compression, thus creating more power. By the time you are Sweating over a few degrees at your manifold, You should have a fully built race car. You should be looking for that last little thing that will give you a .001 of a second, and this type of mod would be followed by tuning to support it.
So, on a "stockish" motor, You would see the same difference in time slips as removing your floor mats before the race. But the drive home would cost more.
Ub3rD0rk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2012, 02:37 AM   #230
hoffmanEstates
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 122043
Join Date: Aug 2006
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: aurora
Vehicle:
04 wagonier
psm

Default

so u saying that its point less? I just thought it was for emissions. my TB is not running coolant through it..
hoffmanEstates is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2012, 05:47 AM   #231
ride5000
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 32792
Join Date: Feb 2003
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: lincoln, ri
Vehicle:
2003 GGA MBP
12.9 / 105+

Default

there is this ignorant impression that the little things don't add up.

news flash: they do.
ride5000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2012, 02:54 PM   #232
Ub3rD0rk
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 293408
Join Date: Sep 2011
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Norwalk CA
Vehicle:
7003 WRX/VW
Metal

Default

"so u saying that its point less? I just thought it was for emissions. my TB is not running coolant through it.."
It dose help emissions by assisting in a more complete burn of the fuel, also increasing fuel economy. If you do not care about MPG, or your car regularly sees high RPM on the track then it's not pointless. Normally though, you are only looking at this sort of modification when you have already extensively modded and tuned your motor for as many ponies as possible.

"there is this ignorant impression that the little things don't add up.

news flash: they do."

Yes all the little tricks to adding power do add up. I can tell you that using a softer tire will decrease lap times, that is not a lie, but if you put soft tires on a street car it will not be much fun to replace tires every 6000 miles. You can make a huge power increase by removing all of your belts, but after a 5 minute drive you won't make any power at all.

You will make power with this mod if tuned along with it, but you will loose some fuel economy. I really don't think the decrease in MPG or the possible power increase on a virtually stock are are worth the effort.
Ub3rD0rk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2012, 03:31 PM   #233
ColesSTi
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 99205
Join Date: Oct 2005
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: La Plata, MD
Vehicle:
2005 Impreza WRX
Blue, Stars & pleques

Default

I agree ub3rdork, All 100 percent all of above as shown. That is why the valve is your friend if you are worried open it.
ColesSTi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-29-2012, 05:40 AM   #234
ride5000
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 32792
Join Date: Feb 2003
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: lincoln, ri
Vehicle:
2003 GGA MBP
12.9 / 105+

Default

every modification has a tradeoff.

in this case, you gain exactly as much power as the loss in fuel economy. as i said earlier, you don't get one without the other.

for the vast majority of people hanging out in this forum, that is an acceptable tradeoff, and one they have already made via other mods.

to put it in perspective, the TINY increase in fuel efficiency is dwarfed by one WOT highway entrance ramp pull. the best way to save gas is through your right foot.
ride5000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-29-2012, 05:40 AM   #235
ride5000
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 32792
Join Date: Feb 2003
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: lincoln, ri
Vehicle:
2003 GGA MBP
12.9 / 105+

Default

every modification has a tradeoff.

in this case, you gain exactly as much power as the loss in fuel economy. as i said earlier, you don't get one without the other.

for the vast majority of people hanging out in this forum, that is an acceptable tradeoff, and one they have already made via other mods.

to put it in perspective, the TINY increase in fuel efficiency seen on an average 5-10 mile trip is dwarfed by one WOT highway entrance ramp pull. the best way to save gas is through your right foot.
ride5000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-29-2012, 08:53 AM   #236
Jessekrs123
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 236927
Join Date: Jan 2010
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Oakville CT
Vehicle:
1993 Legacy Sedan
1984 BRAT

Default

I've done this mod on my N/A 1993 Legacy FWD and there is some gain. There is definitely more to feel at smaller throttle openings (not a humongous difference, but there is something there) which I'm assuming is caused by the incoming air not getting caught between the throttle body and butterfly valve and getting heatsoaked from coolant.

I live in CT, and it has gotten pretty cold and I have had zero problems with the car. Even in less than freezing temperatures, the car has no problem running when it is cold. But my car doesn't have EGR, it only has a PCV system so there is less crap recirculated back into the intake. I don't know if an EGR system will allow more possible freezing moisture to enter the system.

One thing I do notice though is that when I head out my driveway, the first time I push my clutch to stop, the idle drops a little below the threshold and oscillates for a second or two, but after it does that once, it won't do it throughout the rest of my drive.

It is definitely worth it in my case at least. A little more response with less throttle is nice for DD. I do have the FWD 5 speed so I'm sure I will feel more gain than any AWD system considering I have considerably less drivetrain loss.

Just my $.02 and opinion on the subject...
Jessekrs123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-29-2012, 10:59 AM   #237
ppayer38
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 234407
Join Date: Jan 2010
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Smithfield, VA
Vehicle:
04 Self-tooned
STi

Default

There is almost no downside to doing this unless you live in a very cold climate then you may have some warm up problems

It takes 2mins and $2 so why not...

If you don't like it you can reverse it
ppayer38 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-29-2012, 08:08 PM   #238
WRXsponge
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 79621
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Jax
Vehicle:
Bug Waggy
3.0 PNP

Default

Love this is still going. Golf clap.
WRXsponge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-29-2012, 10:54 PM   #239
Str8Gone
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 147972
Join Date: May 2007
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: severna park md
Vehicle:
2004 wrx hybrid 18g
jbp

Default

I just did this mod and it def works, only needed 2 vacuum caps, it deletes a hose.
Str8Gone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2012, 12:01 PM   #240
Caribbean Bugeye
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 310256
Join Date: Feb 2012
Vehicle:
2001 Bugeye STI.
Black.

Default

Did mine last night...better throttle response......for such a simple mod..well worth it!!!
Caribbean Bugeye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2012, 09:53 PM   #241
Dr. octagon
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 171127
Join Date: Feb 2008
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Fredericksburg
Vehicle:
02 Kinugawa
psm

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ride5000 View Post
you don't need "proven gains" to show you that the TB remains cooler.

i'll take my charge air as cool as possible, thanks.

This is what i experienced as a result of this mod, additionally i got rid of the ugly ****ing breather lines that were running across the top of my motor.

Very easy mod, defiantly noticed better throttle response and cooler temp (verified by hand) at the throttle body.
Dr. octagon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2012, 10:39 PM   #242
jsquared
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 212052
Join Date: May 2009
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Jacksonville, NC
Vehicle:
2005 STi
OBP

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rkramer View Post
As for overall power, the TB really only has a chance to interact with the air when the throttle butterfly is partially closed. When its at WOT, it is blasting through the TB fast enough that any increase in temp is going to be miniscule at best. (on the order of 10ths of a degree, if even...)
What you are failing to notice is that the throttle body is heating the ENTIRE INTAKE MANIFOLD. With this mod and phenolic gaskets/spacers, the intake manifold will see much cooler temps. I am not going to speculate on power gains, but a measureably cooler intake charge (as mentioned multiple times, there was a 15-degree change in intake temps on an NA Subaru) will help stave off detonation, which is rather important to those of us running significantly more power than stock.

For what it is worth, Nissan turbo guys have been running TB coolant bypasses for years, myself included on my SR, with no ill effects.
jsquared is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2012, 11:54 PM   #243
DDScooby
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 161876
Join Date: Oct 2007
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Bristol, CT
Vehicle:
02 Impreza WRX
WRB

Default

I got a seriously good laugh out of this old thread lol
DDScooby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2012, 01:18 AM   #244
UK-Wagon
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 232430
Join Date: Dec 2009
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: On the Left side
Vehicle:
555 XTi
1 AW & 1 CGM

Default

5-10WHP!!!! NO. But is a way to keep the engine happy under heavy boost. Less Knock and lower temps across the board. It doesnt cost anything if you do it right. No parts needed, No HP gains.... Just a good mod for people turning up the boost.
UK-Wagon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2012, 06:27 AM   #245
ride5000
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 32792
Join Date: Feb 2003
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: lincoln, ri
Vehicle:
2003 GGA MBP
12.9 / 105+

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by UK-Wagon View Post
No HP gains....
so colder charge air doesn't make more power?
ride5000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2012, 07:41 AM   #246
Uncle Scotty
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 16200
Join Date: Mar 2002
Vehicle:
OK Houston
we have an Uncle

Default

the other gem that I just saw posted recently by somebody....use some fiber washers between the coolant overflow tank and the IM to prevent metal to metal contact and thus heat transfer

that damned thing is ~200* whenever the coolant is at operating temp and LONG after ya turn the car off

why the **** didnt I think of that

TOO bloody simple
Uncle Scotty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2012, 03:20 PM   #247
ppayer38
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 234407
Join Date: Jan 2010
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Smithfield, VA
Vehicle:
04 Self-tooned
STi

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Scotty
the other gem that I just saw posted recently by somebody....use some fiber washers between the coolant overflow tank and the IM to prevent metal to metal contact and thus heat transfer

that damned thing is ~200* whenever the coolant is at operating temp and LONG after ya turn the car off

why the **** didnt I think of that

TOO bloody simple
I did this with nylon washers...

Between that and the TB bypass I did today the IM is warm to the touch at the TB and center of the IM but the further out I Ho towards the end of the runners the hotter it gets(can feel barely any heat at the center of I'M and TB but at the end of the runners I can't even touch it)

Last edited by ppayer38; 06-19-2012 at 03:31 PM.
ppayer38 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2012, 10:32 PM   #248
car_freak85
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 13530
Join Date: Dec 2001
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Cascadia
Vehicle:
EA63 , EA81T, EG33,
EJ205

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ppayer38 View Post
There is almost no downside to doing this unless you live in a very cold climate then you may have some warm up problems.
Or your throttle body freezes open on the way up to the ski area...

I debated this mod while I was rebuilding my engine, but honestly, there are tons of other proven mods that will give you documented gains without jeopardizing the integrity of a well engineered and, it could be debated, critical part.
car_freak85 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2012, 02:03 AM   #249
UK-Wagon
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 232430
Join Date: Dec 2009
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: On the Left side
Vehicle:
555 XTi
1 AW & 1 CGM

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ride5000 View Post
so colder charge air doesn't make more power?
Its not a huge difference in temp but anything helps. So no.... like I said it just makes it safer to reduce knock caused by heat. Its not like you are going from extreme hot air to cold air. It just drops the IAT #s ever so slightly which help with the ease of tuning out knock issues. Some of you guys think this is some extreme mod that you can feel on youre butt dyno, its not. But if you are a tuner and want to turn up your boost safely, things like this are a must. You can see the difference on a Laptop and Access Port but you wont feel it or see it on a Dyno.
UK-Wagon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2012, 02:11 AM   #250
UK-Wagon
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 232430
Join Date: Dec 2009
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: On the Left side
Vehicle:
555 XTi
1 AW & 1 CGM

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by car_freak85 View Post
Or your throttle body freezes open on the way up to the ski area...
uhhhhhh

Sir, the purpose of this OEM design is to help warm the car up on cold starts for winter areas. Warm air into an engine will help heat the engine faster. This is not a design to keep things moving!! 80% of other vehicles on the road dont even have this function.... yet they still work in winter! It will not freeze on you anywhere! Espcially while driving . The engine bay gets hot from the engine no matter what you do or how cold it is out side ad that will keep things like the TB well over 180* degrees even when its 0 or - temps.....

I live in MT, its gets -20* or more here in full winter effect for weeks at a time. Then add high winds for a awesome windchill of -40* at times. Yet I still rock all 3 of my Turbo Subaru cars with no heated TB. hummmm
UK-Wagon is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Throttle body coolant bypass problem? SubasaurusWrex Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain 4 04-27-2006 02:05 PM
Throttle body coolant bypass = blocking flow instead of rerouting? athakur999 General Community 7 04-13-2006 08:33 PM
Throttle body coolant path. Aus_RS Normally Aspirated with bolt-on Forced Induction Powertrain 3 04-26-2004 11:55 PM
Turbo Q: Can you use the Throttle Body coolant lines for the Turbo? Kostamojen Normally Aspirated with bolt-on Forced Induction Powertrain 35 02-22-2004 09:14 PM
Throttle Body coolant line mod WRX Joe Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain 41 07-14-2002 11:55 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:49 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.