Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Tuesday September 30, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-18-2007, 09:06 PM   #1
Electric-Mayhem
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 60594
Join Date: Apr 2004
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Lakewood, CO
Vehicle:
2004 WRX wagon
WRB

Default Having some misfire issues and need some guru help....

So, to start, I replaced my clutch earlier this week, and moved the engine forward rather then move the the transmission back. I kind of regret this, since I don't think it made things any easier, and it seems to have messed up my car in some way that I am having a hard time figuring out. I pulled the radiator out and did the usual get rid of the intercooler and moved a few hoses out of the way to get to bolts, but tried to leave stuff where it was as much as possible. I unbolted the tranny to engine bolts, and undid the engine mount bolts. I lifted the engine with a normal craftsman car jack under the oil pan. I then jiggled stuff around until it all came apart (a 3 hour task in itself). Pretty much the exact same steps in reverse.

Ok, with that out of the way. I got it back together allright, refilled the radiator and took it out for a drive. The one mistake I made was that I didn't really let all the air get out of the radiator. It was fine for the little 10 minute test drive (clutch works great BTW), but when I drove it to work the next day it overheated quite a bit before I could get to a place that had a water source. There are a few small leaks in a couple places that I dealt with too.

So ever since then, its been misfiring on 1 and 3 (about 3 days now). Its not all the time, but rather intermittently. The misfires mostly occur at idle as well. I've replaced the plugs all around, swapped the coils from 1 and 3 with the ones from 2 and 4, and pulled the injectors out to see if they look damaged or clogged. The engine definitely isn't idling well, and bucks around quite a bit at idle. It gets a lot better when its moving and revving, but you can still feel the car stuttering a bit when you hold the throttle evenly. It also idles in weird ways sometimes, often staying at 2-3k (I've heard this is an IAC valve problem sometimes).

The plugs in 1 and 3 were pretty carbon fouled when I pulled them out and the ones in 2 and 4 seemed normal. When I swapped the coil packs over, it didn't seem to do much at all. The codes still remained with cylinders 1 and 3 (p0301 and p0303), so I'm not completely sure that the coils are malfunctioning. Hooking it up to enginuity, the timing seems to be weird too. Its consistently in the 30-40 btdc range.

I'm at my wits end figuring out what is causing this. It has new oil and new radiator fluid in it. I've gone over the engine a bunch of different times and can't find any vacuum leak. The only other things I can think might be wrong are:

-Dirty or otherwise Malfunctioning IAC valve (need to find a gasket before I take it off)
-The timing belt somehow skipped a few teeth or something
- I hope not, but it could be something internal like a head gasket or valve seating problem.

The car definitely isn't happy and neither am I, especially since I am scheduled to move back to Colorado in 2 weeks. I would appreciate any help that people in the know might have. Feel free to IM me or e-mail, or just post here.

JH
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Electric-Mayhem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2007, 11:05 PM   #2
PaulRex
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 12454
Join Date: Nov 2001
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Vermont
Vehicle:
10 Toyota Taco
K8 SV650SF

Default

oh brother.. that sounds like a PITA to figure out. I hope that the overheating didnt do internal damage like you mentioned. You've done what i would have told you to do with the coilpacks, vacuem leaks and you probably are better mechanic than me since ive never tried to change my own clutch.. only other thing i would check would be if the engine grounds are still attached. that timing is really high what would make the ecu do that?

let me at least bump this up!! ttt goodluck
PaulRex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2007, 11:18 PM   #3
Electric-Mayhem
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 60594
Join Date: Apr 2004
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Lakewood, CO
Vehicle:
2004 WRX wagon
WRB

Default

Where are the big engine grounds? I think I have most of them checked, but not sure. I don't think I took that many off, and am pretty sure I attached all the ones I undid.

JH

p.s. I highly recommend to everyone doing the clutch thing, move the tranny, not the engine. I thought it would be less intrusive to the car to do so, but I was wrong for sure. I was worried about taking the axles and driveshaft off, but looking back that would have been much easier and I probably wouldn't be dealing with these problems now. If you do it, definitely have an engine hoist, as using a jack is really crappy. -jh
Electric-Mayhem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2007, 11:26 PM   #4
snaredrumr04
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 126670
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Rockford, MI
Vehicle:
05 STi
Black

Default

check your ckp, make sure you are getting a good reading. then overlap the ckp and spark graphs if you have the tools. i'd also check your injector timing and pulse width. I think that's all i've got for you.

good luck
snaredrumr04 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2007, 01:11 AM   #5
Electric-Mayhem
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 60594
Join Date: Apr 2004
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Lakewood, CO
Vehicle:
2004 WRX wagon
WRB

Default

Do you guys think it could be the timing belt has skipped some teeth and therefore is throwing everything out of whack? I know I heard a few belt like squeaks but I figured it was just the drive belt for the water pump, AC and alternator. I'm still going to give the coils a try I think, but after that it seems like its something nasty (head gasket or bent valve). Hope not though.

Oh, and my current version of enginuity logger doesn't have the crank position sensor output (other then that its on or off) or injector timing, but I'll see if there is an updated logger def that does. Any other ideas are very much welcome.

JH
Electric-Mayhem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2007, 02:15 AM   #6
drees
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 25905
Join Date: Oct 2002
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: San Diego, CA
Vehicle:
2003 Silver Wagon
Tuned with Enginuity

Default

So was it running OK before the car overheated?
drees is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2007, 07:05 AM   #7
ride5000
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 32792
Join Date: Feb 2003
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: lincoln, ri
Vehicle:
2003 GGA MBP
12.9 / 105+

Default

wait...

you see 30-40* btdc at idle?
ride5000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2007, 08:35 AM   #8
Electric-Mayhem
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 60594
Join Date: Apr 2004
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Lakewood, CO
Vehicle:
2004 WRX wagon
WRB

Default

Yes, it seemed allright before it overheated. I only drove it for a little bit after I finished putting it back together to see if everything was working. But yes, all these problems really seemed to get worse after the overheating part.

And yes, I'm getting very high timing rates. 25-35 BTDC pretty consistantly after looking at a log last night.

JH
Electric-Mayhem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2007, 08:42 AM   #9
ride5000
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 32792
Join Date: Feb 2003
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: lincoln, ri
Vehicle:
2003 GGA MBP
12.9 / 105+

Default

check your crank position sensor. if possible, swap it out with someone else's for a bit and see if your idle timing comes back down to acceptable values: 10-15* btdc.
ride5000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2007, 08:43 AM   #10
Turn in Concepts
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 93646
Join Date: Aug 2005
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Vehicle:
Many Track Records
Let us help you go fast!

Default

Wow, that's high. Normal is between 10-16 or so.

edit: damn you ride5000 for your lightening quick responses.

Tony
Turn in Concepts is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2007, 09:01 AM   #11
Electric-Mayhem
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 60594
Join Date: Apr 2004
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Lakewood, CO
Vehicle:
2004 WRX wagon
WRB

Default

I don't really have anyone I can swap one with......but I'll make sure its seated correctly and plugged in and not dirty and stuff. Alot of coolant got spewed all over that area because of a leak in the top rad hose, so it might be something to do with that. I'll keep you posted.

JH
Electric-Mayhem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2007, 09:24 AM   #12
Electric-Mayhem
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 60594
Join Date: Apr 2004
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Lakewood, CO
Vehicle:
2004 WRX wagon
WRB

Default

From a visual inspection standpoint.....the Crank sensor seems good to go. No idea if its actually malfunctioning though. I'll see about getting a new one maybe.

JH
Electric-Mayhem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2007, 09:14 AM   #13
PaulRex
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 12454
Join Date: Nov 2001
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Vermont
Vehicle:
10 Toyota Taco
K8 SV650SF

Default

figure this out yet?
PaulRex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2007, 09:25 AM   #14
06grayrex
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 116132
Join Date: May 2006
Location: stl
Vehicle:
2006 wrx tr Stage II
sgm Jorge tuned -RIP :(

Default

Have you done a compression check yet?
06grayrex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2007, 03:06 PM   #15
Electric-Mayhem
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 60594
Join Date: Apr 2004
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Lakewood, CO
Vehicle:
2004 WRX wagon
WRB

Default

Sorry guys, I had to leave town for a couple days and just now got back to a computer.

Well, I bought 4 brand new coils and put them in, and it seemed to run great for a little while. Its still a bit rough on the idle side of things, but I think that may be down to the IACV being dirty, which I'm planning on fixing when I get back. I think its that because I am getting the weird rise in idle speed when it gets warmed up.

I haven't done a compression test yet, and that will be after a few more little things like the IACV and going over the car to make sure all the grounds are installed right and such. The good news is, the ignition timing is alot more normal since I put the coils in, sitting at around 12* BTDC at idle and occasionally running a bit above 30 when its under load, but usually in the 25ish range.

From a sit there and listen standpoint, the car seems to only have major problems when at idle. It seems to be then that the rich condition (code P0174 I believe....rich condition in bank 1) and the misfire codes come up. When its under load and at higher RPM, the car seems to run pretty normal. I did get a EGT high input CEL once, but I don't know if that was something to worry about.

I think what might be happening is that the IACV is being weird, so the car richens the mixture up and this in turn fouls the plugs and creates misfire problems. I think I'll clean out the Idle Air Control valve and maybe swap out the plugs again to be sure. I do have a rather noticeable exhaust leak at the join between the downpipe (I have the helix bellmouth that deletes both post turbo cats) but other then that I think I should be good to go (*crosses fingers*). I think I'll do the grounding mod too, since it seems to help others and doesn't take that long to do.

If there is anyone in the Syracuse area that wants to come help and have a listen and look, I'd be much obliged. I have the coolant situation under control now, so I can do a bit longer drives. Thanks a bunch for your help guys, and I'll be sure to keep everything updated.

Josh
Electric-Mayhem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2007, 01:01 AM   #16
thejean
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 17763
Join Date: Apr 2002
Chapter/Region: W. Canada
Location: Calgary, AB
Default

I have a similar problem. Missfires at idle and a wavering AFR at idle. I'm cleaning my IACV tomorrow. I'll let you know how it goes.
thejean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2007, 02:46 AM   #17
Electric-Mayhem
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 60594
Join Date: Apr 2004
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Lakewood, CO
Vehicle:
2004 WRX wagon
WRB

Default

Well........I was having these issues about 6 months ago. Essentially it turned out to be the worst case scenario........that being a cooked headgasket that came from me not getting all the air out of the radiator. So despite trying everything but replacing the headgasket, thats what it ended up being.

I had to move back to Colorado from New York for work, and didn't get it figured out before that. So I pretty much was forced to drive cross country with a uhaul trailer in tow with what turned out to be an engine with half the cylinders lacking compression.

Whats more, shortly after I got to Colorado, the gasket totally crapped the bed and a large amount of coolant got into the cylinder, which screwed the block beyond fixing. So in the end, I now have an STI shortblock installed, which is definitely fun. Its something I probably would have done sooner or later anyways. I wasn't happy to have it happen that way, but I suppose it happens. Definitely has turned me away from doing major work on my car though. This all stemmed from me not making one mistake that was pretty simple. Live and learn I suppose, just wish it wasn't such an expensive lesson.

So, if you've overheated or anything like that, I would highly recommend a compression test. I held off because I wanted to believe it was something else. But if its just a wavering idle and a few misfires, try the ICV clean first.

JH
Electric-Mayhem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2007, 06:58 AM   #18
ride5000
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 32792
Join Date: Feb 2003
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: lincoln, ri
Vehicle:
2003 GGA MBP
12.9 / 105+

Default

misfires and wavering afr/rpm at idle are often an exhaust leak in the vicinity of the front o2 sensor.
ride5000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2007, 03:01 PM   #19
thejean
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 17763
Join Date: Apr 2002
Chapter/Region: W. Canada
Location: Calgary, AB
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ride5000 View Post
misfires and wavering afr/rpm at idle are often an exhaust leak in the vicinity of the front o2 sensor.
That's what I thought as well but I checked and I can't feel/see/hear anything.

I'm gonna clean the MAF and IACV annd see what happens.
thejean is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
i have a 2005 legacy gt and need some help larerick Newbies & FAQs 4 05-24-2010 07:00 AM
Saw some wheels today and need some advice.... Tecate Tire & Wheel 2 02-26-2010 11:44 AM
I have some turbo or boost issues and nned some help bad! Masta Splint Factory 2.5L Turbo Powertrain 3 02-26-2009 04:31 AM
Alright, some Guru insight please. I've searched, and need some direct advice. NorCalEnthu Newbies & FAQs 7 05-10-2007 07:58 PM
02 WRX..some new things and need some thoughts. enewtabie Member's Car Gallery 49 05-23-2006 09:26 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:21 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.