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Old 12-26-2001, 03:46 PM   #1
Tainted
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Question Car feels like it hits the rev limiter when it's not hitting the rev limiter

If I crank the wheel all the way to one side and put the car in gear and floor it, around 5,000 rpm the car goes wawawawa just like its hitting the rev limiter. If I put the clutch in then bring it back out it will go up to redline no problem. Any one got any ideas? It really kinda sucks.

Thanks Mike
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Old 12-26-2001, 11:53 PM   #2
Patrick Olsen
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Ummmmm, don't treat your car like dog**** and it might act properly?
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Old 12-27-2001, 01:23 AM   #3
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HHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA lol....



is this the first car you've owned? HAHAHAHA
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Old 12-27-2001, 01:26 AM   #4
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This is a joke right?
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Old 12-27-2001, 02:43 PM   #5
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And why are you trying to drive you car in a circle at 25mph? Man you gonna kill the poor car. :monkey:
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Old 12-28-2001, 08:23 AM   #6
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Quote:
Ummmmm, don't treat your car like dog**** and it might act properly?
Pat, you crack me up man.

Fitz
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Old 12-28-2001, 12:02 PM   #7
Tainted
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Helpfull replies would be nice.

I'm not driving around in circles.

This is my 3rd car, but first AWD car.

It happens when I pull out of my parking space I have to make a damn near U-Turn into alot of traffic. So I gun it when I pull out. It has done it about 3 times.

I don't consider taking my car to red line to be treating it like dog[EDIT]. It was designed to do that. If it wasn't I want my money back.

Please don't reply unless you have some helpful advice on what is wrong.:monkey:

Thanks
Mike


If you had originally included these details, maybe you would have recieved answers instead of the replies that you got. Now please return to your regularly scheaduled discussion...

Opie
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Last edited by Opie; 12-28-2001 at 12:58 PM.
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Old 12-28-2001, 04:12 PM   #8
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Hey tainted, i get that behavior when i autocross with under 1/4 tank, and i have to come down from 50 or so to get a 1st gear 180 degree turn. Fuel delivery problem, hehe. I now run with about 1/2 tank, no more problems.

It does feel a bit like the rev limiter, and doesn't show up until after i've gone thru the corner, and started to accelerate (since there's fuel in the lines already). The first time it happened, i was sure i had broken something.

That sound familiar?


beast
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Old 12-28-2001, 06:35 PM   #9
Tainted
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That sounds like it Jeddy. I tested it this after noon with a car guy. Thats what he said was the problem no go juice getting to the boom box. Thanks jeddy now I'm pretty sure thats what the problem is.

And the rest of you still get the :monkey:
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Old 01-02-2002, 02:49 PM   #10
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Tainted,

I used to get that with my 96 Prelude vtec. On a cold start if I would gun it up to redline, the rev limiter would kick it at about 5000 rpms instead of 7400 rpms. A friend of mine said the reason the computer does that is because the car is not up to safe running temperatures. There are different metals in your engine, so they all have to heat up properly to function correctly. The computer is just trying to protect your motor for longevity. The is what honda does, but who knows if subaru does it. To be honest, i have probably only taken it up to 4 grand on a cold start. Never beat on it until she was ready. My .02. Peace

Kevin
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Old 01-02-2002, 04:44 PM   #11
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I don't think its a cold start. I let the car warm up while I close up the building so she's pretty greased by the time I gun it. a good 10 to 15 minutes of warmup then anouther 5 of waiting to go.
Thanks for the reply though. I had heard BMW does that also limiting the car till its warm. Cool!

Thanks again
Mike
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Old 01-03-2002, 01:36 AM   #12
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Yeah, what's even more cool on the new E46-genaration BMW M3 is that when you start it up the tach shows a 5k rpm redline and progressively raises while you are driving around to a more lofty 7500. The tach looks like it has been designed so you can see this niftiness even when it si in direct sunlight...
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Old 01-04-2002, 12:07 AM   #13
Patrick Olsen
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tainted
I don't consider taking my car to red line to be treating it like dog[EDIT]. It was designed to do that. If it wasn't I want my money back.
Well, you better march right on down to your dealer and get your money back. The SOHC 2.5L has a rev limiter about 250rpm short of the red line so apparently Subaru did not design the car to go to red line. But I'm sure you already knew that....

My DOHC 2.5L doesn't have such a silly limitation so I've been beyond red line - only for short periods of course, and only at Watkins Glen coming out of the uphill Esses in 4th gear.

As for the fuel starvation issue, that could be it, but I'd be kinda surprised if that's the problem. Since you're still in 1st gear when this happens that would mean the fuel pickup would be deprived of fuel almost as soon as the car started moving. (As jeddy pointed out, it takes a second or two for the fuel starvation to actually affect the engine, and it only takes a couple seconds to get to 5000rpm in 1st). I dunno, maybe the combination of a hard launch plus the sideways motion of the wheels being hard over really sloshes the fuel around? Does it happen only when the tank is relatively empty, or does it always happen?

Oh, and to be even more helpful, idling your car to warm it up for 10-15min is also treating it like dog****.

Pat
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Old 01-04-2002, 09:52 AM   #14
2.5GT
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Talking I get kinda the same feeling, although not driving in circles

It seems to me like the engine bogs down and then picks up again at ~5500rpm every now and then. It's usually in third or fourth gear that I feel this bogging. Again, it doesn't happen all the time. BTW, my redline is still 6500 with a SOHC motor. Pat, you could be right in stating that the engine may not be designed for high rpm redlines, but I remember Cobb Tuning running a test that proved the SOHC valve train was good to about 6800rpm, reliably, and 7100rpm just before valve float (I'm not flaming what you said, just merely stating what I heard).

Another possibility could be your knock sensor? I've heard that the newer engines tend to have overactive knock sensors which cause the ecu to retard timing when it is not needed. That being said, I've switched to 89 octane (from 87), and the phenomenon has lessened in frequency, which may or may not coincide with the knock sensor (less knock=less tendency for the ecu to retard timing). It hasn't cured the bogging completely, but I'm gonna try running 93 octane at my next fill up.

Just speculating here.

Jason
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Old 01-04-2002, 11:27 AM   #15
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I think alot of the original replies were based on the fact it sounded like you were describing how to do what are normally called "scoobnuts" i.e. Donuts in your scooby.
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Old 01-06-2002, 02:09 AM   #16
Graf
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Lightbulb

I have had this problem with every vehicle I have ever owned with power steering. It's something to do with the way the power steering pump works with the steering rack. The pump works even when turned all the way in one direction. So the stutter you are feeling is the continuous action of the pump trying to assist even when its not needed. This feeling is really noticeable in old domestic pickups. Hope this helps
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Old 01-07-2002, 04:52 PM   #17
Tainted
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Quote:
Originally posted by Patrick Olsen

Well, you better march right on down to your dealer and get your money back. The SOHC 2.5L has a rev limiter about 250rpm short of the red line so apparently Subaru did not design the car to go to red line. But I'm sure you already knew that....
Pat
Sorry REV LIMITER! I think you knew what I meant.

Quote:
Originally posted by Patrick Olsen


Oh, and to be even more helpful, idling your car to warm it up for 10-15min is also treating it like dog****. Pat
And this hurts something other than my gas mileage
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Old 01-07-2002, 04:54 PM   #18
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Thanks everyone for your replies. It was the fuel starvation thing. No go juice in da boom box.
Thanks
Mike
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Old 01-08-2002, 02:32 PM   #19
Patrick Olsen
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I'm glad you found the source of the problem. When I first started auto-xing this site was still pretty small, and the fuel starvation problem wasn't as well known. I learned the hard way that reducing weight by running the course with little fuel in the tank resulted in fuel starvation problems in the corners.

As for...
Quote:
And this hurts something other than my gas mileage
...the answer is "Yes". An engine is designed to operate most efficiently when it is at or near it's normal operating temperature (NOT, as we call it in the nuclear Navy). When the engine is not at NOT, you pay the price with increased friction and wear and tear. An excellent example of this is the tick-tick-tick noise you hear when you start your Subaru in very cold weather. That noise gradually goes away as the engine warms up to NOT and "normal" operating tolerances are obtained. Anyway, the longer the engine runs while it is not at NOT, the more wear and tear is occuring.

What's the best way to warm up an engine? With a load, of course. Hopefully it's obvious that if you start the engine and immediately take off down the street at WOT, it's going to reach NOT a helluva lot quicker than an engine left at idle. Hopefully it's also obvious that starting a cold engine and immediately taking it to WOT is a horrible thing to do - hence the BMW's adaptive redline, and the advice in your Owner's Manual to take it easy until the drivetrain is warmed up. Even if you didn't got to WOT immediately, the loaded engine will warm up faster. For instance, if you pulled out of your parking space and just cruised along at 2000rpm in 1st gear, the engine would warm up faster than if you sat in the parking space and held the unloaded engine at 2000rpm.

If you do a bit of research, you will find that automotive experts recommend that you start the cold engine, allow it to idle for about 30sec or so, and then drive the car, proceeding somewhat gently until the drivetrain is at NOT. You want to idle it for a brief period to let the cold, thicker oil start circulating a bit before you hit the road. Then you want to drive the car (with due moderation) to put a load on the engine so it gets to NOT quicker. You don't want to beat on the car to make it warm up even faster, because putting full load on a cold engine is even worse than idling a cold engine. So it's kind of a compromise.

Idling a car for longer than necessary is just hard on an engine. The engine's not working at all, so there's no heat in the combustion chamber, which means you can end up with deposits in the combusion chamber. Emissions are at their worst when the engine is cold because the emissions system isn't at its optimum temperature, etc etc. Will idling your car for 10-15min every day kill your engine? No. Is it a less than healthy thing to do to your engine? Yes. I can think of a number of similar examples - do I need to put a turbo timer on a WRX? No, but it sure will make the system happier if I do put one on. Do I need to use synthetic oil in my engine? No, but in the very long run it's better for the engine. This is the same kind of thing, it's just another way to treat your car right.

School's out.
Pat Olsen
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Old 01-08-2002, 02:42 PM   #20
Tainted
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Thumbs up

Huh i had always thought that letting the car warm up when not under a load was the best thing to do. Thanks for the info I think i will follow that advice it does make alot of sense.

Good Info!
Mike
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Old 01-08-2002, 07:50 PM   #21
Patrick Olsen
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I learned all that in a course I took in college, and I've never forgotten. You're far from alone in thinking that you should just idle the car until it warms up - it's what most people do. Just think of how many people buy remote car starters - those starters are doing exactly what you shouldn't do to an engine. Like I said, though, it's not a huge deal, it's just something to think about for the loooonnnggg term longevity of the engine.

Man, we certainly got this thread off topic, huh?

Pat
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Old 01-09-2002, 12:21 PM   #22
Tainted
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Further down the spiril
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