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Old 12-22-2001, 06:46 PM   #1
ANTHONY SMITH
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Default increase stopping power

does anybody know how increase our stopping power ?
do I put bigger rotors on? I hate our brakes.
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Old 12-22-2001, 06:53 PM   #2
anotherB4
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In stages I would say the following:

1. You could start with a good set of pads, those alone make a big difference. There are many grades, and getting some that suit your needs and driving style will be important.

2. Next step is going to DOT 4 or Super DOT 4 fluid. As this point going to mesh hoses is a very good idea too.

3. Whole hog is going for Impreza STI 4-pot calipers (and getting the right rotors if you need to).

Another option: Super Deluxe is going for an after market kit...$$$

Cheers.
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Old 12-22-2001, 07:36 PM   #3
froggert
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anotherb4 is right. pads will make a big difference, but only if the rest of the system is in good shape. when was the last time the brake fluid was replaced or bled?

i've got upgraded pads and tires, stainless steel brake lines, ate super blue brake fluid, and slotted stock-size rotors and think that stopping ability is pretty darn good.
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Old 12-23-2001, 01:44 AM   #4
anotherB4
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hehe...I've got some rotors from TSL in the UK waiting for my next pad change. Stock size, but made by Bre**o, with nice grooves

I have done up to #2, thinking about the calipers too...

The feel is much better already, and the thing stops pretty well in all situations (track included ). Now doing the polishing of the braking performance, without going too OTT.
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Old 12-23-2001, 01:48 AM   #5
jacobhorn
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I was told by Subie Gal and others that the first step to get rid of the brake pedal squish would be to install some stainless steel brake lines. This is assuming you have good brake pads. I have not done anything to improve my braking yet, but I really hate the feel of my Legacy's brake pedal. I will probably install some SS brake lines with new pads next spring.

Jacob
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Old 12-23-2001, 02:34 AM   #6
sovereignmk1
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Cheaper route - Pads/SS lines/DOT4.

/Mark
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Old 12-23-2001, 01:59 PM   #7
MKIVSupra
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Yes SS brake lines make a big difference especailly when you need to slam on the brakes. I will always put ss lines on every future vehicle I own, if they don't already have them.

I also just upgraded to the newer Legacy stock rotors which are bigger than my 98 rotors, some different pads, and I always use synthetic brake fluid.

Unless you are going to be taking it to the track I would not waste the money on upgraded calipers.
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Old 12-23-2001, 03:06 PM   #8
Patrick Olsen
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I'm always amazed at how many people think the Subaru brakes (Impreza and Legacy) are bad. Obviously it's a matter of paradigms - I come from the Mustang paradigm, 350+ supercharged HP with 11" rotors and wimply single piston calipers up front and 10" drums in the rear. Slowing hard from 100-60mph will fade them! So, to me, the Legacy's brakes were a revelation, even in stock form.

With that said, they can definitely be better, and it really is just a matter of pads, fluids, and SS lines. I use Mintex 1155 pads front and rear - very dusty, but very good grip even when cold. Some guys have had success with the 1155s on the track, I started to fade them there so I went a bit more hardcore. Now, specifically for track events, I swap over to Porterfield R4 pads and cryo-treated plain Brembo OEM-sized rotors. Frankly, our cars aren't fast enough to need bigger rotors and calipers on the track, we just need to optimize what we have. At all the tracks I've been to the fastest speed I reach on the big straights is somewhere in the 105-110mph range - our brakes are more than capable at those speeds as long as you have good pads. If I added cooling ducts I could probably make the Mintex 1155s work on the track and save myself the trouble of swapping rotors and pads for each event, but... I haven't done that.

Pat Olsen
'97 Legacy 2.5GT sedan

Last edited by Patrick Olsen; 12-24-2001 at 10:56 AM.
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Old 12-23-2001, 08:05 PM   #9
CRAZY KEN
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Pat Olsen- Would you recommend the Porterfield R4 pads and cryo-treated plain Brembo OEM-sized rotors for street use only too! I probably do half a dozen or less autocross, but am looking for the best rotor/ pad combo in OEM size as well!!!

Currently have:

Brembo crossed-drilled rotors in the rear
Eurorotor crossed-drilled rotors with cadmiun plating in the front
Goodridge SS brake lines
Project mu street pads front and rear
and Castrol brake fluid

Im thinking either Porter field's setup, Project Mu's slotted setup or Endless' setup! What's your/anyones opinion or comment on those 3 companies?

CRAZY KEN
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Old 12-23-2001, 10:50 PM   #10
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Crazy Ken,

I've got ProMyu HC Titan Kai on all 4 corners and they are awesome from cold! And we (that is 3 of our 4 B4 track pilots) use them on circucit days etc. and they do just fine.

They are no dustier than the std. pads on the B4, but boy do they stop.

I've got STI lines, and AP fluid too - this combo does a great job.

And the newer cars (not sure when the upgrade was intro'ed to the US model line, but here it was version C of the B4 which was realeased early last year) have a different master cylinder and revised pedal assembly to improve feel and initial bite.

Yes, it is nice, yes I want it - but the $s are too much for moi. SS mesh lines and all the other stuff was cheaper. In govt tests, the newer set up knocked stopping distance from 100kmh (62mph) from 43m, to 41m.

Cheers - and have a great holiday season!
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Old 12-24-2001, 03:40 AM   #11
youpers
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STOPTECH! nuf said!
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Old 12-24-2001, 08:55 AM   #12
gtguy
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Ken, your braking performance should be fine. You haven't mentioned tires, though, another component in the braking equation.

On my Legacy GT wagon I ran the KVR cross-drilled rotors, KVR carbon pads, Goodridge lines with SuperBlue in the system, and my car stopped much better than the stock braking setup with the same wheels/tires.

I don't think that 4-pots are necessary. They also don't clear stock Legacy wheels, in case you go plus one and want to use the stockers for snows (those who actually get snow).

Kevin
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Old 12-24-2001, 09:11 AM   #13
HIHO
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I have cadium plated Eurorotors all around and KVR carbon pads.
My car has a really good brake feel. It is much better than stock. I am going to get the SS lines and switch fluid soon.
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Old 12-24-2001, 11:02 AM   #14
Patrick Olsen
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CRAZY KEN! No, I do not recommend the Porterfield R4 pads for daily street use! They are a very aggressive pad, and when cold they will chew up rotors and spit them out!! They grip just fine when cold, even better than my Mintex 1155s, but I've never left them on the car for more than a couple days after a track event because they will tear up the rotors!!!

Boy, I sure am excited about this!!!

Pat
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Old 12-24-2001, 06:04 PM   #15
ImprezaWRXDriver
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I have the Subaru 4-POT on my Legacy GT Wagon. They work great. I still need to get stainless steel brake lines. I know that the StopTech kit is really awesome because I them on my WRX. I am told that they will fit on the Legacy's. But make sure you have the wheel to clear it. I have like 1.5mm of clearance between the spoke and caliper. Now that is close.
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Old 12-25-2001, 11:19 PM   #16
CRAZY KEN
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Default Project Mu ALL THE WAY...

anotherB4- i-Clubbers don't know much about "Project Mu" ...even myself! Until one day my local speed shop friend told me about a brake company they just started dealing with called "Project Mu" Apparently, they are the Brembo of Japan! So I started off with their pads and noticed an immediate difference from stock/EBC Green Stuff...my next pair of Project Mu pads will be mated with their slotted rotors for our Legacys! Goodbye Brembo and Euro Rotor!

gtguy- Tires are Toyo T1-S 215/45ZR17
Wheels are Volk Racing LE37K (with polished lip and gunmetal center/center cap "VR" emblem with McGard Spline drive lug lock kit)

CRAZY KEN
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Old 12-26-2001, 09:16 AM   #17
anotherB4
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Crazy Ken - someone should tell me when I start talking about stuff not available in the States - I'll either shut up, or explain more (often with the help of early adopters like yourself).

Glad you like the Mu/Myu pads - if you get a chance, record that pad name from above - we run them all year round, even on snow country trips where it gets down to minus 15 plus...they work a treat!

Cheers
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Old 12-26-2001, 11:21 AM   #18
CRAZY KEN
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Question not available

It's available! I can even get Project Mu's Big Brake system too, but it's over $2,000...so OEM pads and slotted rotors will do for now!

CRAZY KEN
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Old 12-26-2001, 12:01 PM   #19
HIHO
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$2000!!!! It's not that hard to stop a speeding Legacy! You can create a very good brake system for alot less than that. IMO
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Old 12-27-2001, 04:15 PM   #20
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Default well

I agree with many above that have said new pads, ss lines and DOT 4 fluid are a big help. The fluid change itself made a dramatic change in my braking response (I doubt the brake fluid was ever changed b4 I bought the car.) I use the ATE Super Blue fluid, its a pretty good compromise between performance and longevity of use.

I also went a step further by replacing the front stock single pots on my Legacy with the WRX 2-pots and the larger rotors. This was also a big change as it had become difficult to approach lock-up on the upgraded tires with the stock brakes. The stock wrx rotor(11.4") is the SAME exact rotor as the STi four pot kit rotor (non-Brembo.) So the actual braking force is only marginally increased going with that set of 4-pots.

I have to agree with Pat, I think the Subaru stock brakes are pretty good if you tweak them a bit. So all told for under five hundred (maybe less if your have the 2-pots already) you can have some pretty excellent brakes.
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Old 12-27-2001, 07:53 PM   #21
etam
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for reference...

http://www.project-mu.co.jp/product-...epad/hc-t.html

for translation..
http://babelfish.altavista.com/

Those pads are expensive!!! US$200 for front!!

Last edited by etam; 12-27-2001 at 08:10 PM.
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Old 12-27-2001, 08:59 PM   #22
shirokuma
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I've been upgrading brakes next to Another(Damned)B4, with a similar upgrade path, but having put on the 4-pots. I have Lockheed ZC pads, mesh lines, dot 4.

Lockheed ZC pads are nice if you get them warm enough. That means track duty, or hauling down from 110mph repeatedly. Otherwise, the performance seems lackluster. When they get in the zone, though, it's like throwing out an anchor.

The 4pots don't drastically improve performance from the standard 2-pots on the B4's, because they don't increase the braking area much, if any. However, the grip is much more consistant, especially in high speed braking, and unlike the 2 pots, they never waver left or right under extreme braking. The wear is very even on the pads also. It's an incremental difference, but the price for the subaru 4 pots is rather decent compared to all other 4 pot upgrade paths. However, unless you are planning extensive track use, they probably are not necessary.

Paul Hansen
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Old 12-27-2001, 09:17 PM   #23
anotherB4
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Smile 4 pots are popular here...

The brake upgrade market for Legacys is dominated by 4 pot kits here.

The response and feel is the big immediate difference, and a lot of people go this route for that reason alone. The actual swept area is only slightly larger, but opposed piston calipers are almost always going to feel better and do a better job because the forces imparted on the rotor are linear, and direct (even if the pistons themselves are of similar total capacity). This also helps the stability of the car under brakes because the floating caliper is going to have some flex, esp. when hot.

The other good thing about them is that they are less prone to uneven wear of your expensive pads - and the difference can be a few thousand kms...not enough to make up the cost difference over time, but nothing to sniff at (my last 2 sets have had cake slice shaped leftovers, that had they worn evenly would have lasted a lot longer).

As for the cost of the pads, you get what you pay for (in this case). As Paul says, most people won't need them, but if you drive hard in hot conditions, or do track days, these are pretty good. Work from cold to very high temps and don't wear out too fast, or murder rotors either.

Anyway, each to his own - as mentioned above, only do what you need to meet your requirements.

Cheers
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Old 12-27-2001, 11:03 PM   #24
GTBGUY
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Smile For those in search for more braking power

Ok guys, those who crave more braking power, here's a link for you :

http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthr...threadid=87027

Come ~ end of febuary, they will be finally done
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Old 12-27-2001, 11:42 PM   #25
anotherB4
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Wink

Oh - and perhaps I should add that with all the track days, hard driving etc., etc. that Paul, self and our 2 other B4 buddies have thrown at the OE rotors WE HAVE NEVER WARPED one. :monkey:

And we all run upgraded hoses, fluid and high friction & temp pads.

Just FYI
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