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Old 12-28-2001, 12:40 PM   #1
iBlueVirus
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Default is short shifter illegal in GS in autocross?

I am staying in GS and just wondering if I do get the short shifter, will that kick me out of class?
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Old 12-28-2001, 01:15 PM   #2
CivicSiRacer
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Yes it is illegal.

Only thing legal for stock glass are:
DOT racing tires on stock sized wheels
front sway bar
spark plugs
spark plug wires
4/5 point harness
cat back exhaust
brake pads
K&N filter replacement for stock element
shocks w/same height as stock
roll bar/cage
some other rules apply like interior cosmetic stuff that will not enhance or lighten the car (shift knob, stereo, speakers, gauges)
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Old 12-28-2001, 01:39 PM   #3
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what about pedals? they help me with heel-toe... does that consider "enhancement" on the car? Thanks!
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Old 12-28-2001, 01:48 PM   #4
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Actually I think a shift knob does knock you out of stock, pedals do too. With regard to wheels, must also be same offset as factory. Any performance option that was offered as a factory option can be added too, but if it was part of a package you must add the whole package. For example a LSD is a stand alone factory option for my year Miata, I could add one and stay stock.

/bill
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Old 12-28-2001, 02:02 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by bbbradley
Actually I think a shift knob does knock you out of stock, pedals do too. With regard to wheels, must also be same offset as factory. Any performance option that was offered as a factory option can be added too, but if it was part of a package you must add the whole package. For example a LSD is a stand alone factory option for my year Miata, I could add one and stay stock.

/bill
No, shift knobs are ok in stock class.
You don't have to have the "same offset" as the stock. They just have to be within a +/-1/4" from the stock offset. They must be the same dismeter and width.

About roll bars and cages. Roll bars must be welded in. Cages, are of more than 4 points and must be bolted in and not welded in.
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Old 12-28-2001, 02:08 PM   #6
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Update:

The Subaru shifter is now legal for stock class as it has been offered as a port option for a few months - though it wasn't originally.

Port options are stock class legal - SCCA considers them fitted by the factory (manufacturer).

Glenn
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Old 12-28-2001, 02:09 PM   #7
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probably should comment that the WRX is no longer in GS class... we're all DS now.
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Old 12-28-2001, 02:15 PM   #8
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gosh darn it. you mean to tell me I need to take my pedals off? darn it! oh well... BTW, I am only a little RS, so I stay in GS.
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Old 12-28-2001, 02:27 PM   #9
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Glenn, I thought that "port installed options" such as the shifter were specifically NOT legal..... are you sure about that?
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Old 12-28-2001, 02:42 PM   #10
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Quote:
Port options are stock class legal - SCCA considers them fitted by the factory (manufacturer).
yeah glenn, are you sure about that?

That would make the 17" BBS rims DS legal too I guess. which is why I am curious.
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Old 12-28-2001, 02:52 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by iBlueVirus
gosh darn it. you mean to tell me I need to take my pedals off? darn it! oh well... BTW, I am only a little RS, so I stay in GS.
acccck. so you are... maybe i should read better next time...

that and i forgot what class the RS was in to begin w/ all the boys here run STS.
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Old 12-28-2001, 03:53 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by KC_TopDog


No, shift knobs are ok in stock class.
You don't have to have the "same offset" as the stock. They just have to be within a +/-1/4" from the stock offset. They must be the same dismeter and width.

I will concede the point on the offset as I didn't specify the tolerances allowed. With regard to the shift knob, where in the rules does it say it is an allowable mod?? I can't find it and the rules state that if it is not explicitly listed it is not stock legal.

/bill
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Old 12-28-2001, 04:02 PM   #13
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The allowance for shift knobs is covered under "comfort and convenience" changes. Tint, radios, etc. A short-throw shifter (if it's the SOA one) is only legal for the WRX (if what Glenn says is true). An RS isn't allowed a short shifter since it was never a factory option. Edit: just realized you had a '02 RS, not sure if the shifter is available from the factory for the new RS.

If you're autoxing an RS, GS is the place to be this year if you buy r-tires and good shocks. If you eventually plan to modify beyond that just go straight to STS.

Your pedals might be considered "comfort and convenience" too but I'm not sure.
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Old 12-28-2001, 04:31 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tony
The allowance for shift knobs is covered under "comfort and convenience" changes.
I think at the level we are likely discussing it is a moot point, as no one will protest a shift knob. (If they do, just give them the one finger salute: :monkey: ) On the other hand at a serious level someone might. I could make an argument that a shift knob is more than comfort and convenience if it allows one to shift easier, faster, or with more precision. I find it hard to believe a radio could affect your performance, but a shift knob could, albeit a small amount.


/bill
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Old 12-28-2001, 08:15 PM   #15
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Quote:
yeah glenn, are you sure about that?
Yes. Checked with Howard Duncan.

Quote:
That would make the 17" BBS rims DS legal too I guess. which is why I am curious.
NO! The BBS rims are a "dealer accessory" which is what the short shift kit was before it was elevated to "port installed option" (PIO).

So, anything you can get on the winder sticker is stock class legal.
e.g. rear spoiler, short shifter, upgraded audio, alarm system...

Glenn
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Old 12-28-2001, 08:19 PM   #16
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13.2 BODYWORK
A. Accessories, gauges, indicators, lights and other appearance, comfort and convenience modifications which have no effect on performance and/or handling and do not materially reduce the weight of the car are permitted.
...

I hope my pedals are covered under "comfort and convenience modifications". But like Bill said about the shift knob, I don't think people will protest about the pedals.

for now, I think I'll stay in GS, since there are many mods need to be done to the driver. Thanks guys!
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Old 12-28-2001, 10:12 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by iBlueVirus
I hope my pedals are covered under "comfort and convenience modifications". But like Bill said about the shift knob, I don't think people will protest about the pedals. Thanks guys!
I'm quite sure the pedals are not legal and I do think people might protest. Heel toe is difficult to do with the current pedal spacing such that the risk of attempting a heel toe shift and missing it is high enough that I think most people would avoid trying it (unless they've got nothing to lose). Changing the pedals to allow you to easily heel toe gives you a definite performance advantage and there were a few courses in the SFR region where a heel toe shift to first would have been the thing to do with the WRX's power band being what it is.

Of course... the rules don't always make sense (and it seems some of it has been corrected at least in the sense of the short shifter). For example... it made no sense to me that a short shifter with stock tires would take you out of stock class yet the stock shifter with R compounds were legal!!! . The short shift is maybe good for... what, a millisecond at the most where as R compounds are worth at least 2 seconds off of your time compared to the RE92's (and I think it's safe to say I'm being conservative with that statement ).

Cheers, Joe

P.S. Ditch the pedals to be legal and modify your shoes <hehehe> Are there any rules about the type of clothing you can wear?
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Old 12-29-2001, 04:12 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by veloLexus
P.S. Ditch the pedals to be legal and modify your shoes <hehehe> Are there any rules about the type of clothing you can wear?
hmmm... next project... The Ultimate Racing Shoes!!! Man, I love my pedals!! oh well... I guess now is either they come off or I go up a class...
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Old 12-29-2001, 09:25 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by veloLexus


Of course... the rules don't always make sense (and it seems some of it has been corrected at least in the sense of the short shifter).
Oh, don't even bother to try and make sense of the rules... Cu$tom valved $hock$ are stock legal, so long as ride height is not affected. Yeah, that makes sense. As with most anything the person with the most money and/or ability to find ways around the rules wins. I have really enjoyed learning to autox, but realize without sinking a ton of $$, even in stock, will likely never be competitive anywhere other than locally. Oh, well, it is still the most legal fun you can have in a car.

/bill
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Old 12-29-2001, 11:16 AM   #20
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If your rules are anything like the ones we are using here are, when they say "performance" they are talking about the car, not the driver Pedals, shift knobs, any of that stuff would not be considered a "performance modification". You might want to get clarification on that just in case though.
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Old 12-30-2001, 09:54 PM   #21
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Shift knobs are under comfort and convience. Short shift kits are considered performance modifications cause you can shift quicker. Pedals would also be illegal for stock cause you can to toe/heel shifting which is an advantage.

In most cases at local events you wil not be called for having pedals - it's not going to make the average Joe Schmo quicker.
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Old 12-31-2001, 08:55 AM   #22
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I swear I read on the Miata board someone got dinged for a non-stock shift knob... Oh, well, it appears I am outvoted. :P Not that I am complaining as I have swapped mine and run in stock class.

/bill
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Old 12-31-2001, 12:14 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by CivicSiRacer
Shift knobs are under comfort and convience. Short shift kits are considered performance modifications cause you can shift quicker. Pedals would also be illegal for stock cause you can to toe/heel shifting which is an advantage.

In most cases at local events you wil not be called for having pedals - it's not going to make the average Joe Schmo quicker.
If your good, you can heal toe with regular pedals, racing pedals aren't an advantage in that regard.
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Old 12-31-2001, 01:07 PM   #24
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maybe it's my shoes or something. My heel would often hit the wall and only get very little of the pedal and most of the time is not enough... That's why I got the pedals... I think what I would do is find one pair of shoes that would be best for doing heel-toe. and at the next autox, I'll ask about the pedals that I have. Thanks again guys!
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Old 12-31-2001, 09:36 PM   #25
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Default wow

sorry..but do you guys wear Shoes from the Kids Section in the sports store??

cause i think anyone could heel toe in just about any stock subaru!!! i can do it in my moms outback with stock pedals perfectly everytime!!!!


if i were you...go buy some Skate shoes..the got a big sole so heel toe is super easy...

and sorry to say it....but..it's exactly things like this that turn me off SCCA auto-xing...it's those little pricks who would actually protest your pedals because he got beat on the track...sorry..bud..but....if it was just pedals...can't you admit that you might have gotten schooled on the track....and the pedals made NO difference what so ever???

some guys just take it way to seriously...AutoX is for FUN, and to learn....no to file protests every weekend and get people Disqualified...i seriously think that if you get beat on the track...it's not worth protesting over stupid stuff....
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