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Old 07-13-2007, 12:13 PM   #1
sonicblue
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Default Help me out: is this dealer desperate and how firm do I stand?

Went to check out a CX9 a couple weeks ago. Sweet. However, as expected, butt-rifling ensued on trade value, and I walked. The guy said he would "continue to shop my trade around," and I left not holding my breath....

Guy just emails me:

Quote:
i was wondering if you would at least give me the opportunity to give a car away! if you are intrested in hearing what i have to offer. just let me know what type of equipment you want and i will give you my very best price. thank you for the chance to earn your buisness.
-1 for capitalization and spelling, but I digress.....

Obviously, he would need to really work the price of the car to make up the trade value lowball, but is this a sign he's really desperate to sell a car for some reason (not near end of the month...)? My gut says, give him the model info, get his price, and then say, "but I really can't take $X on the trade, so what's your best number there?" However, that's one more back and forth, and not only do I hate dragging it out that much farther (waiting for one more phone call, email, whatever), but I think I risk just ticking him off as being a real PITA customer. But...if he really is desperate, which brings me back to, is he just desperate and what can I get away with it?

WWOTD?
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Old 07-13-2007, 12:19 PM   #2
StuBeck
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You lost when you told him you had a trade in before the final price of the car was negotiated. Just sell the car privately and go in with a big down payment.
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Old 07-13-2007, 12:21 PM   #3
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what is your trade? and what is a lowball offer to you? with trades, the dealership obviously has to have their own interests in mind...they can't give you retail value for a car because they have to pay to have it inspected and then make repairs that might be necessary and then put it on the lot with hopes of making a buck on it...

it's probably not a desperation thing...I'm sure his manager told him to contact you again that they would work hard to earn your business...my manager does it to me all the time when I don't close a deal that day and a customer walks...(I sell pontiacs and mitsubishis)
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Old 07-13-2007, 12:23 PM   #4
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Mazada seems to like to low-ball people. Went in Tuesday to look at a CX-7. They ran the numbers on my truck, etc and came back about $6K under what NADA said it was worth. They didn't really seem concerned that I grabbed my keys and walked out. They didn't really want to discuss going higher on the trade in.

The sales man said they go by whatever KBB tells them on the web.
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Old 07-13-2007, 12:23 PM   #5
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You've got nothing to lose, and its almost easier if you're up front with what you want for your trade. He should be able to tell whether he can work a deal, if not he moves on. You're not really wasting his time.
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Old 07-13-2007, 12:23 PM   #6
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Figure out what you want to pay for the new car, and what you want for the trade. Tell him it's firm, and can't budge. If he takes it, great. If he doesn't, upper deck the toilet at the dealership.
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Old 07-13-2007, 12:24 PM   #7
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Their offer is $4-6K less than I see comparably equipped vehicles advertised for, and mine is need of, at worst, a good detail and front brake pads.
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Old 07-13-2007, 12:25 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonicblue View Post
Went to check out a CX9 a couple weeks ago. Sweet. However, as expected, butt-rifling ensued on trade value, and I walked. The guy said he would "continue to shop my trade around," and I left not holding my breath....

Guy just emails me:



-1 for capitalization and spelling, but I digress.....

Obviously, he would need to really work the price of the car to make up the trade value lowball, but is this a sign he's really desperate to sell a car for some reason (not near end of the month...)? My gut says, give him the model info, get his price, and then say, "but I really can't take $X on the trade, so what's your best number there?" However, that's one more back and forth, and not only do I hate dragging it out that much farther (waiting for one more phone call, email, whatever), but I think I risk just ticking him off as being a real PITA customer. But...if he really is desperate, which brings me back to, is he just desperate and what can I get away with it?

WWOTD?

SHOP THE NUMBER!! You live in NJ theres probably 3 mazda dealers in a 40 mile radius of you!!!!
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Old 07-13-2007, 12:33 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonicblue View Post
Their offer is $4-6K less than I see comparably equipped vehicles ADVERTISED for, and mine is need of, at worst, a good detail and front brake pads.
that's your problem...you're looking at advertised retail values for your car...that's different than a trade-in value because like I said...the dealership has to make money on it as well...so they're not going to give you retail value and mark it up over retail...that doesn't make sense because nobody will buy it if it's marked up over retail value...

tell him you'll take his lowball trade offer if he makes up for it in the price of the car...tell him you want the car at invoice for such a lowball trade number...
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Old 07-13-2007, 12:36 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BluprlW05 View Post
that's your problem...you're looking at advertised retail values for your car...that's different than a trade-in value because like I said...the dealership has to make money on it as well...so they're not going to give you retail value and mark it up over retail...that doesn't make sense because nobody will buy it if it's marked up over retail value...

tell him you'll take his lowball trade offer if he makes up for it in the price of the car...tell him you want the car at invoice for such a lowball trade number...
I know the difference between retail and trade. I never said that's what I expected to get, but at his offer, he'd put about $500 of labor/effort into prepping the car, then make a fat $4K profit at my expense. I'd buck for a trade offer around $2-3K below retail, still gives them plenty of room to make some coin on the deal and is a much more reasonable number.
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Old 07-13-2007, 12:42 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonicblue View Post
I know the difference between retail and trade. I never said that's what I expected to get, but at his offer, he'd put about $500 of labor/effort into prepping the car, then make a fat $4K profit at my expense. I'd buck for a trade offer around $2-3K below retail, still gives them plenty of room to make some coin on the deal and is a much more reasonable number.
I agree..2-3k below retail is reasonable...he may not be going by blue book or NADA...he may be going by black book trade-in value which is sometimes less than the others...or they may have looked at all three as well as a retail value to give you an average price on the trade...

I would still try and stick him on the price...I don't know what price he's giving you...if it's marked up over MSRP or if he's giving it to you for MSRP or below that whatever...I would still stick him on that and try to get it at invoice...if he doesn't then go to the next closest mazda dealership and tell them that you were just at X dealership and they were gonna give it to you for X amount and if they can beat it by 100$ you'll buy from them...then drive your new cx-9 to the dealership trying to screw you and show it off...
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Old 07-13-2007, 12:43 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonicblue View Post
I know the difference between retail and trade. I never said that's what I expected to get, but at his offer, he'd put about $500 of labor/effort into prepping the car, then make a fat $4K profit at my expense. I'd buck for a trade offer around $2-3K below retail, still gives them plenty of room to make some coin on the deal and is a much more reasonable number.
theres retail, trade-in, and wholesale. dealers are going to give you what they can get for the car at wholesale, not the trade-in value from KBB or edmunds. especially if you're not trading in a vehicle to a dealer of the same brand....

whats the year/make/model? i'll look up the value
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Old 07-13-2007, 12:50 PM   #13
Grap
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CarMax your trade....
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Old 07-13-2007, 12:51 PM   #14
sonicblue
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no Carmax near me (closest is like 3 hours away, IIRC).

Vehicle is a maroon 2005 Nissan Quest 3.5S (options = power side door, power liftgate, backup sensors) with about 32K miles.

FWIW, I really like this dealer. Sales guys have been very "non-salesy" to me, and they've done a good job with servicing my RX8.
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Old 07-13-2007, 12:54 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BluprlW05 View Post
I would still try and stick him on the price...I don't know what price he's giving you...if it's marked up over MSRP or if he's giving it to you for MSRP or below that whatever...I would still stick him on that and try to get it at invoice...if he doesn't then go to the next closest mazda dealership and tell them that you were just at X dealership and they were gonna give it to you for X amount and if they can beat it by 100$ you'll buy from them...then drive your new cx-9 to the dealership trying to screw you and show it off...
If you can get it in writing to 'take home and go over with the S.O.', then take that to the other dealerships. I know down here, some will try to screw you around without having the 'in writing' from the other dealership.

Be firm though.....it's your car, it's your money. If they want the sale, they have their flex they can go...as long as it's reasonable.
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Old 07-13-2007, 12:54 PM   #16
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is it an S/SE/SL/SLE?

edit:

SL version seems to have a metric ass ton of low mileage ones out there - thats your biggest issue to overcome



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Old 07-13-2007, 12:54 PM   #17
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I thought you were trying to pay off debt or something....trading in a car is certainly not a step in the right direction.
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Old 07-13-2007, 12:59 PM   #18
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especially when youre going to be hosed on the trade-in
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Old 07-13-2007, 01:07 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beethoven View Post
I thought you were trying to pay off debt or something....trading in a car is certainly not a step in the right direction.
We are getting out of debt by no longer buying little (often big) crap that we don't need, and financing it via a credit card. I need to have a car, so I can't spend months/years saving up for one. I do not want to buy some beater that I can pay the cash for now, because the last one I had, supposedly a 'smart used buy,' presented a potential $2K repair right after I dropped $800 on it. Financing newer cars keeps cash in my pocket, repairs under warranty and my life easier. When loan rates are 25%, then bash away. I paid nothing out of pocket when I bought my RX8 and the loan's at 6%. Two oil changes and an inspection over eight months, two warranty services = . Depreciation is the real cost of the car, and that has nothing to do with how I paid for it.

CN: I've argued it a hundred times in various threads. Having cash flow going out in the form of a car payment does not mean you're wasting money; not having a car payment doesn't mean you've made a smart financial decision. EOD.
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Old 07-13-2007, 01:08 PM   #20
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Yea, but why would you trade in instead of a private sale? Why give up 20% on the trade for no reason?
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Old 07-13-2007, 01:09 PM   #21
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especially when youre going to be hosed on the trade-in
Um........I'm not going to trade it in if I get hosed......
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Old 07-13-2007, 01:12 PM   #22
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Yea, but why would you trade in instead of a private sale? Why give up 20% on the trade for no reason?
For the same reason everyone in the world trades in: selling privately is time-consuming, uncertain and often a real PITA to deal with (buyers not showing up, backing out, etc...), and all of that has a cost associated with, both in hard and soft dollars, that offsets the higher price. Howver, I have considered it.
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Old 07-13-2007, 01:14 PM   #23
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Call him back, see what he offers you, including trade. If your total out of pocket expense is what you're expecting to pay, jump on it. If not, go home.
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Old 07-13-2007, 01:16 PM   #24
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Call him back, see what he offers you, including trade. If your total out of pocket expense is what you're expecting to pay, jump on it. If not, go home.
I'm not going to shop the end number. If he's willing to give me invoice on the car, but still rag me on the trade, then I'll sell privately and buy the car at invoice. It still comes down to, I'll only trade in if what he gives me for the trade is close enough to the private value that it's worth doing and not posting the car, meeting buyers, waiting a month....two months...to sell it, etc....
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Old 07-13-2007, 01:27 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonicblue View Post
I'm not going to shop the end number. If he's willing to give me invoice on the car, but still rag me on the trade, then I'll sell privately and buy the car at invoice. It still comes down to, I'll only trade in if what he gives me for the trade is close enough to the private value that it's worth doing and not posting the car, meeting buyers, waiting a month....two months...to sell it, etc....
what others have said is true. What i've done is basicaly take the kbb, edmunds and nada blue book values and try and get something somewhere in the middle. they tend to be relatively close to each other (i.e. less then 5% difference). If the dealership is not going to give you anything close to that walk.
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