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Old 07-14-2007, 11:03 PM   #1
Grande
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Question WRX Wagon 2005 - Engine blew

I have a WRX 2005 with 30K miles, and suddenly the engine started knocking without any warning (no lights came on, etc).

I took the car to the dealership, and the service manager told me that it may be a bearings problem.

The only engine mod my car has is an APS turbo back exhaust, and APS up pipe.

The service manager told me that he will be on vacation until Monday, and he said that I should keep driving my car until Monday.

He complained a little bit about the after market exhaust, but even so I don't think it is an excuse for having this problem. Then he said it could be caused because I use synthetic oil, because sybthetic is thinner than conventional oil.
I perform oil changes every 3500 miles, even using synthetic oil. And I don't abuse the car at all, it's my daily driver.

Other thing the manager said: the car can't leave the shop with the after market exhaust on it. He said that Subaru will question him, and I should bring the OEM exhaust to be installed.

To make the story short: it looks like they will fix the problem (according with first look, he said that the short block will be replaced).
Even doing that, I think that it is not fair. I would like to have a brand new engine installed in my car, and also get an extended warranty from Subaru for free (my warranty will expire in 6 months).

Any advice for my case? Should I claim a brand new engine? Should I call Subaru?

Thanks in advance,
Grande
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Old 07-15-2007, 01:37 AM   #2
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Hopefully, your dealer is Subaru of Santa Cruz, as they're one of the "good ones".
However, synthetic oil is not going to harm anything, and it's silly of someone to say that.
What parts outside the short block do you think are damaged so that a whole new engine is required? If you don't know, you're not going to be able to convince the dealership or SOA, so be sure you know what you're talking about before requesting that. In any case, I would expect any warranty repairs to be guaranteed for 12k miles/12 months, so I don't think the extended warranty will be necessary.
As for the exhaust, the problem is the missing CARB-certified catalytic converter, not the exhaust per se. If they hand back the car w/o it, they can be liable for big fines from the state and EPA.
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Old 07-15-2007, 02:04 AM   #3
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Wow, you should be happy right now! If it isnt broke then theres no reason for them to replace it.
They should replace what needs to be replaced to make the car run fine.
Good luck!
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Old 07-15-2007, 02:17 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by armand1 View Post
Hopefully, your dealer is Subaru of Santa Cruz, as they're one of the "good ones".
However, synthetic oil is not going to harm anything, and it's silly of someone to say that.
What parts outside the short block do you think are damaged so that a whole new engine is required? If you don't know, you're not going to be able to convince the dealership or SOA, so be sure you know what you're talking about before requesting that. In any case, I would expect any warranty repairs to be guaranteed for 12k miles/12 months, so I don't think the extended warranty will be necessary.
As for the exhaust, the problem is the missing CARB-certified catalytic converter, not the exhaust per se. If they hand back the car w/o it, they can be liable for big fines from the state and EPA.
Thank you so very much for your reply!
As I mentioned before, the manager says that it sounds like bearings are damaged. But the motor hasn't been opened yet.
I would love to have a new engine, so I would be certain that everything is okay. In fact, I think that I deserve a new STI engine in my little wagon, because I feel myself as a loyal Subaru customer (this is my third Subaru, I love them all, and several friends have bought Subaru's because my cars), and my girlfriend is about to buy a XT Outback Limited Edition, following my recommendations. We did the test drive on it today (in Santa Cruz, of course), and both she and I like it. I can say that the decision of buying the 4th Subaru depends a lot of how my issue is handled.

I don't think it is necessary, because I know that Subaru of Santa Cruz is the best in the area and they will do their best to resolve my issue (I live in Monterey and there is a Subaru dealership here, but I decided to buy my car in Santa Cruz because their reputation, and I am really happy the way they treat me), but in other hand I think that it wouldn't be be a bad idea to take the car to a friend who is a mechanic, and hear where the knock comes from using a stereoscopic. Then I would have better arguments.

Armand my brother, I intrigued with something: how do you know that my dealership is in Santa Cruz, but my car is running the APS high flow cat.
I know that you live in Seattle, but do you know me by chance?
It sounds like the up pipe is the issue for the dealership... the only problem is because I spent 300 in labor to install the up pipe plus 100 to install the rest of the exhaust...

Thanks again, bro!
Grande

Last edited by Grande; 07-15-2007 at 02:36 AM.
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Old 07-15-2007, 02:54 AM   #5
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Yes, the full exhaust including uppipe can change how your engine is running. And yes, the synthetic oil could also potentially be a potential cause.

However, they are offering to fix it... So I dont see what the problem is here.
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Old 07-15-2007, 03:04 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moosecakes View Post
Wow, you should be happy right now! If it isnt broke then theres no reason for them to replace it.
They should replace what needs to be replaced to make the car run fine.
Good luck!
Thanks moose!
To tell you the truth I am not happy at all. It's sad to see a reliable engine blowing at 30k miles... If the engine is fixed for good, I am happy too, but I am still preferring a brand new one.
I know that I will not have any problem with Subaru of Santa Cruz, and pretty soon we will have a XT Outback in our family. They are "good ones"!

Grande
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Old 07-15-2007, 03:09 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kostamojen View Post
Yes, the full exhaust including uppipe can change how your engine is running. And yes, the synthetic oil could also potentially be a potential cause.

However, they are offering to fix it... So I dont see what the problem is here.
Thanks Kostamojen!
There is no problem, I am just asking for recommendations about a brand new engine or fixing this one.
The full exhaust can change how the engine is running, I agree with you. But even so, it's not an excuse for blowing the engine. And how should I proceed to keep my up pipe and run safe? Re flash stage 2???

Grande
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Old 07-15-2007, 03:27 AM   #8
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New short block is easiest for the shop and for you. Thats what usually is offered if something went bad or bearings or something internal with the shortblock under warranty.

If you want to keep it "safe" put it back to stock... If you want to keep it modded, screw trying to have your engine/transmission covered under warranty and do whatever.
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Old 07-15-2007, 10:17 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grande View Post
The only engine mod my car has is an APS turbo back exhaust, and APS up pipe.
... and no engine management... on an 04+...? If so count yourself very lucky that you are getting a new anything
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Old 07-15-2007, 11:49 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grande View Post
Thanks moose!
To tell you the truth I am not happy at all. It's sad to see a reliable engine blowing at 30k miles... If the engine is fixed for good, I am happy too, but I am still preferring a brand new one.

Grande
To tell you the truth, you have no grounds to be upset. If you read anything on these forums, you would know that a TBE and UP on a 04+ WRX is really not recommended without EM. Especially if you live in Cali, where the gas is more like water with pee in it...

As others have said, your lucky to get anything out of this deal. But I will be extremely surprised if SOA decides to give you anything. I certainly wouldnt be surprised if a lean condition caused detonation which damaged your engine.
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Old 07-15-2007, 11:50 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UkNuck View Post
... and no engine management... on an 04+...? If so count yourself very lucky that you are getting a new anything
It has Stock engine management. Anyway, I don't think there is any reason for blowing. There are lots of people running like I am without any problem.
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Old 07-15-2007, 11:57 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grande View Post
I would like to have a brand new engine installed in my car, and also get an extended warranty from Subaru for free (my warranty will expire in 6 months).

Any advice for my case? Should I claim a brand new engine? Should I call Subaru?
Here's some advice.

The dealer sounds like they are more than willing to work with you. At this point they have already gone above and beyond what is expected of them. Demanding a new engine a free extended warranty is absolutely ludicrous and quite frankly a slap in the face to the dealership.

Take what is being offered to you, fill out the survey you receive with high marks, call SOA and tell them how happy you are, write the dealerships owner and tell him how happy you are and bring the technician and service manager some lunch while you are at it. They do not owe you anything, you owe them the world for even considering to warranty something that you had a hand in (let me guess, you were using Mobil1 synthetic, right?)

Notch up another Mobil1 Bearing issue, but hey, it's all just coincidence right?
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Old 07-15-2007, 12:30 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hondaslayer View Post
Here's some advice.

The dealer sounds like they are more than willing to work with you. At this point they have already gone above and beyond what is expected of them. Demanding a new engine a free extended warranty is absolutely ludicrous and quite frankly a slap in the face to the dealership.

Take what is being offered to you, fill out the survey you receive with high marks, call SOA and tell them how happy you are, write the dealerships owner and tell him how happy you are and bring the technician and service manager some lunch while you are at it. They do not owe you anything, you owe them the world for even considering to warranty something that you had a hand in (let me guess, you were using Mobil1 synthetic, right?)

Notch up another Mobil1 Bearing issue, but hey, it's all just coincidence right?
Thanks hondaslayer,

So should I use conventional Mobil oil, and turn the car back to stock?
I am willing to put the stock UP back, and keep the TB after market.

Grande
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Old 07-15-2007, 01:22 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grande View Post
It has Stock engine management. Anyway, I don't think there is any reason for blowing. There are lots of people running like I am without any problem.
Stock EM huh...you mean the factory ecu that was not tuned for a larger diameter exhaust? You think they should give you an sti engine? Speechless
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Old 07-15-2007, 01:45 PM   #15
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^ I know right! Someone mods their car improperly, blows their engine, and the dealer is going to fix it, but that's not good enough! And do you know what "short block" means? You're getting a new engine from the heads down, many people on this site would kill to be as lucky as you are.
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Old 07-15-2007, 02:49 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grande View Post
Thanks hondaslayer,

So should I use conventional Mobil oil, and turn the car back to stock?
I am willing to put the stock UP back, and keep the TB after market.

Grande
I would do the opposite as the turboback is part of the problem (M1 being the main culprit, but again it must be a coincidence that the majority of spun bearings happen to have M1 in them)

Put the stock turbo back back on, put the stock uppipe back on and consider yourself to be very lucky that the dealer is considering helping you.

And stop using M1.
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Old 07-15-2007, 03:01 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hondaslayer View Post
I would do the opposite as the turboback is part of the problem (M1 being the main culprit, but again it must be a coincidence that the majority of spun bearings happen to have M1 in them)

Put the stock turbo back back on, put the stock uppipe back on and consider yourself to be very lucky that the dealer is considering helping you.

And stop using M1.
Thanks again, bro!
So, your advice is basically go back to stock?

The dealership is great, I have absolutely no complains about them.

Grande
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Old 07-15-2007, 03:38 PM   #18
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For whatever reasons, M1 and Subies don't mix. That'd be the biggest culprit, IMHO.

IF you do want to retain your exhaust, get some form of engine management. AP or ECUtek or whatever, but having an untuned exhaust modded car didn't help the cause. If you don't want to chance it, go back to stock and play it safe. Use either conventional oil or another kind of synthetic. Keep an eye on your oil level, and change it every 3k(even synthetic). I am saying this so you'll err on the side of safety.

As far as the short block goes, that's what failed on your car. I'm almost certain the heads are ok. Spun rod most likely is what happened.

Just so you know the manager is working with you as best as he possibly can. In fact, if he wanted to, he could have told you tough cookies and you'd be paying out of pocket. I'm not beatin' ya down, I'm just sayin' that he's helping you out. Like some other folks said, call SoA and let them know you're happy, and give the dealer a good survey.



Mika
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Old 07-15-2007, 05:49 PM   #19
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don't look a gift horse in the mouth, so to speak. sounds like they're taking good care of you. i would concentrate on making them reinstall your exhaust stuff. unless it's an emissions legality issue there's no reason to make you put stock parts back on. that's rediculous! i would expect them to request future service be performed with them, and ask for a good survey, but remove your parts thats like telling you to change from briefs to boxers. i tell people not to run alcy, full atmo. bov's, etc with a new engine but thats just for break in. rest of their parts get reinstalled.

oh yeah, get an ap!
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Old 07-15-2007, 05:52 PM   #20
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I don't agree with the blanket statment that M1 is the cause for all these spun bearings. Without getting too much into it, what grade you use is the key. People with problems are almost always running M1 5W-30 and 10W-30 which we all know are as thin as vaginal wetness.

I've been mixing M1 grades for a while and it seems to work fine. Or a suitably thicker OTS grade of M1 should work too.
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Old 07-15-2007, 06:05 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by esteve View Post
I don't agree with the blanket statment that M1 is the cause for all these spun bearings. Without getting too much into it, what grade you use is the key. People with problems are almost always running M1 5W-30 and 10W-30 which we all know are as thin as vaginal wetness.

I've been mixing M1 grades for a while and it seems to work fine. Or a suitably thicker OTS grade of M1 should work too.
My bad, I wasn't trying to say that all cars that run M1 will have spun bearings. BUT, if you look at threads that have blown motors, or motors with spun bearings in 'em, the majority of those motors will have M1 in 'em(Subie motors, not Evo's, Corvettes, etc). I definitely agree that 5W-30 is way too thin for a turbo'd car. 10W-30 IMO=YMMV. My oil consumption dropped by over 60% just by switching from 5W-30 to 10W-30('04 STi). I went from losing .75 qt/1,500 miles to .5/3k just going from 5W to 10W. But I live in Texas, and it gets plenty hot here.

When I finally get to 10k, I'll be putting Amsoil in. See how that goes. It's not much pricier than M1, but it's supposedly teh cats meow. And I will change it every 5k.



Mika
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Old 07-15-2007, 07:56 PM   #22
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seriously, dont be greedy.

your car has a warranty for this reason.

Everyone one wants something for nothing.

You are in California, one call to the California air resources board about the modification to your exhaust and you wont have to worry about anything because the will probably seize your car or impose huge fines on you.

Your car has a warranty for a reason, they are going to fix it. You arent entitled to a brand new engine or an extended warranty.
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Old 07-15-2007, 08:35 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grande View Post
Even doing that, I think that it is not fair. I would like to have a brand new engine installed in my car, and also get an extended warranty from Subaru for free (my warranty will expire in 6 months).
Your powertrain warranty, which is the part that covers the engine, is until 5 years or 60,000 miles......you still have plenty of time left.
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Old 07-15-2007, 08:43 PM   #24
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I really dont know what else to say.


Subaru doesnt owe you anything. Take Hondaslayers advice and kick as much A as you can and hopefully it's covered. You modded the car. It clearly states in the manual that if you mod the car warranty might not cover anything if it breaks.

This isnt a silly case of putting in a drop in filter and the dealership not wanting to work with you.
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Old 07-15-2007, 08:48 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finnRex View Post
My bad, I wasn't trying to say that all cars that run M1 will have spun bearings. BUT, if you look at threads that have blown motors, or motors with spun bearings in 'em, the majority of those motors will have M1 in 'em(Subie motors, not Evo's, Corvettes, etc). I definitely agree that 5W-30 is way too thin for a turbo'd car. 10W-30 IMO=YMMV. My oil consumption dropped by over 60% just by switching from 5W-30 to 10W-30('04 STi). I went from losing .75 qt/1,500 miles to .5/3k just going from 5W to 10W. But I live in Texas, and it gets plenty hot here.

When I finally get to 10k, I'll be putting Amsoil in. See how that goes. It's not much pricier than M1, but it's supposedly teh cats meow. And I will change it every 5k.



Mika
I wasn't trying to single you out, it's just a popular notion around here and I just wanted to throw out my opinion.

I did a UOA with just a 4:1 mix of M1 (4 quarts 10W-30, 1 quart 15W-50 EP) and the results were good. The oil didn't shear down, in fact SUS viscosity @ 210 degrees F was 63.6 as opposed to 56.8 with M1 10W-30. It was scary seeing that I was driving around with such thin, sheared-down oil before...no wonder people are having problems with the stuff!

I currently use a 3:2 mix which seems to hit the sweet spot, I'll know in a few months when I do another UOA. It should be like a very thick 30 weight oil which is what I want out here.

So I do agree that M1 5W-30 and 10W-30 might be related to the problems, but not all their stuff is bad for our cars...you just have to choose wisely.
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