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Old 07-16-2007, 04:41 PM   #1
Spiider
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Default Stand Alone = integrated DCCD control

If anyone is interested in directly controlling their DCCD using their stand alone I may be able to help you.

I've built a new project that would allow you to create an "auto" program for your DCCD directly within your stand alone EMS's available aux PWM pulldowns.

For example, you could tie TPS and load into your "DCCD map" to create a nicely integrated solution for controlling the DCCD directly with a stand alone EMS.
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Old 07-17-2007, 03:01 PM   #2
keaniegenie
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But where would you control the DCCD? You would still have to have a control dial somewhere, right?

So what you're saying is if I want DCCD on my car, I buy the differential and you can make my Hydra control it, so all I need is the control dial?

Considering the Neetronics is only a few hundred, I'm assuming this would have to be fairly cheap.

None the less, I'm interested. Tell me more.
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Old 07-17-2007, 03:08 PM   #3
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I would assume you could find an analog input to use for the manual control, but i wounder if the logic is there in the standalone to switch maps.
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Old 07-17-2007, 06:18 PM   #4
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I guess I wasn't clear enough...

What I was saying is that you can use the already existing aux PWM's that are available for free (in every major stand alone EMS) to create a built in DCCD controller that you can self tune.

You don't need a control knob, it can be user mapped using your throttle and engine load parameters so that the EMS could automatically control the DCCD in a 2d map. You can probably load in different maps depending on different conditions, I'm not sure of the capabilities of all the different stand alone's.

The interface is basically a signal conditioner in between the low amp PWM in the EMS and the high amp PWM needed for the DCCD. I have already designed and built one for someone as a test project.

This is only intended for people in a very small niche, with stand alone EMS and an STi 5 or 6 speed swap that has a DCCD.

And yes, the cost is really inexpensive. <$100

It is essentially the output stage from my (famous) "Spiider's Auto Mode DCCD controller" with a few mods to work properly with the Stand Alone EMS.
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Old 07-17-2007, 06:39 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiider View Post
I guess I wasn't clear enough...

What I was saying is that you can use the already existing aux PWM's that are available for free (in every major stand alone EMS) to create a built in DCCD controller that you can self tune.

You don't need a control knob, it can be user mapped using your throttle and engine load parameters so that the EMS could automatically control the DCCD in a 2d map. You can probably load in different maps depending on different conditions, I'm not sure of the capabilities of all the different stand alone's.

The interface is basically a signal conditioner in between the low amp PWM in the EMS and the high amp PWM needed for the DCCD. I have already designed and built one for someone as a test project.

This is only intended for people in a very small niche, with stand alone EMS and an STi 5 or 6 speed swap that has a DCCD.

And yes, the cost is really inexpensive. <$100

It is essentially the output stage from my (famous) "Spiider's Auto Mode DCCD controller" with a few mods to work properly with the Stand Alone EMS.
Sounds great.

The biggest question is, who tunes a DCCD map?

<<<somebody who has a stand-a-lone who wants DCCD in the future
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Old 07-17-2007, 09:40 PM   #6
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I think a "base map" would be easy to figure out. It's not hard to think about the logic of how you want the DCCD to behave under certain conditions.

That's sort of how I started my inital maps/modes and tweaked them from there until I was happy with the car behavior.

I spent a lot of time in my car logging with Deltadash and my accelerometer data to see where the big improvements in traction can be made. That "research" is what went in to the tarmac programs in the Auto controller. I also took in a lot of descriptive "evidence" from my customers about how they wanted the car to behave in certain situations and used that to advance the "maps".

Some of that data could be used in the stand alone 2d maps to get started, I don't know who else might have some experience in the area of DCCD mapping that would want to contribute...
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Old 07-18-2007, 01:26 PM   #7
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could you map it to behave differently in different gears? like be More front biased in first but more rear bias in 2nd gear and up?
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Old 07-18-2007, 03:10 PM   #8
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There are many stand along center diff controllers out there. I think a dedicated piece of hardware is better suited to controlling the diff as opposed to the ECU.
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Old 07-18-2007, 03:44 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LateApex31 View Post
There are many stand along center diff controllers out there. I think a dedicated piece of hardware is better suited to controlling the diff as opposed to the ECU.
I disagree. I build and sell one of the (IMO best) stand alone DCCD controllers so I have a bit of experience in this area. With an integrated function in your EMS to control the DCCD you have access to lots of vehicle parameters without having to add the extra interfacing and sensors that you need with a stand alone DCCD controller. Plus the ability to tune your own DCCD!

On the other hand the benefit to a stand alone DCCD controllers is that (with my unit anyway) you have additional g-sensors to help provide data the stand alone EMS wouldn't have access to.

The big benefit of this new interface is that it would be cheap and very effective. The least expensive stand alone Auto DCCD controller happens to be my design and it costs $250. The interface I'm talking about will be <$100 shipped.
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Old 07-18-2007, 03:47 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zod02wrx View Post
could you map it to behave differently in different gears? like be More front biased in first but more rear bias in 2nd gear and up?
It would all depend on what mapping is available in your stand alone EMS. If there are "per gear" parameters available I can't see why not. The problem is that you would have to have the correct STi 6 speed and the wiring done properly. I know with my JDM ver7 swap I could see only a couple different gear "states" in Deltadash. I couldn't fully see it reading from 1st to 6th. It was more like "in gear" and "out of gear".
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Old 07-19-2007, 04:01 PM   #11
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I looked into this a while back and gave up. Ended up buying my controller from these guys,rocketrally.com, works great. I think they said somthing like that you will burn out the driver if you try to run the diff off of the ECU for any length of time...
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Old 07-19-2007, 09:57 PM   #12
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You obviously can't run the DCCD directly off the ECU driver, it won't last more than a couple minutes, maybe less. The PWM circuits in any stand alone are only good for a couple amps. Plus they are pull downs, which won't do anything for you when it comes to directly powering your DCCD.

This is the reason I created an EMS->DCCD interface........
It does all the high speed switching and power supply side of things.
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Old 07-19-2007, 11:05 PM   #13
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I would think this could also be used on a UTEC 5th injector PWM output, but I'm not sure what parameters you can use.
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Old 07-19-2007, 11:42 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiider View Post
You obviously can't run the DCCD directly off the ECU driver, it won't last more than a couple minutes, maybe less. The PWM circuits in any stand alone are only good for a couple amps. Plus they are pull downs, which won't do anything for you when it comes to directly powering your DCCD.

This is the reason I created an EMS->DCCD interface........
It does all the high speed switching and power supply side of things.
This sounds much like the unit I recieved from Rocketrally, it uses TPS, RPM & speed from the ECU to calculate the amount of lock.
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Old 07-20-2007, 12:13 AM   #15
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Quote:
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This sounds much like the unit I recieved from Rocketrally, it uses TPS, RPM & speed from the ECU to calculate the amount of lock.
You are missing the point. This doesn't use anything from the ECU, it gets it command from a stand alone. What is involved in that is based on the complexity of the ECU, and what it is capable of.
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Old 07-20-2007, 12:34 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LastResort View Post
You are missing the point. This doesn't use anything from the ECU, it gets it command from a stand alone. What is involved in that is based on the complexity of the ECU, and what it is capable of.
Got ya, you set up the parameters in the PWM table of the EMS and it sends the signal to this amplifier which controls the centre diff.
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Old 07-27-2007, 08:47 PM   #17
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sounds really interesting... shame i got the JDM 6mt without dccd or I would have been all over this one...
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Old 07-28-2007, 12:31 AM   #18
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so..
if you ran external boost control (mbc for example) you could then use the stock boost map (via open ecu/ecutek/ap) for dccd control using the bcs output as the input source

which would be pretty dam cool
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Old 08-01-2007, 01:03 PM   #19
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With the Hydra the sky is really the limit here. You could assign a 3D map to send a PWM signal to this controller based on any two parameters the Hydra logs. So for instance you could use RPM vs Boost, Speed vs. Boost, TPS vs Speed, etc.

Thanks,
Phil
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Old 08-02-2007, 03:41 AM   #20
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Subscribed!

This is definitely something very interesting as I'll be using Hydra on my setup when it happens, and this would give me that added incentive to go 6-speed with DCCD!
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Old 08-02-2007, 10:11 AM   #21
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I new to the Subaru community and DCCD control.. What is it that you would want to change as you are driving?

Last edited by sean18337; 08-08-2007 at 03:12 PM.
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Old 08-07-2007, 12:59 PM   #22
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pm me info..i would like to get ahold of one of these.
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Old 08-09-2007, 08:42 PM   #23
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It's a little pre-mature right now for me to sell any of these to people that aren't willing to experiment a bit, and work with the support guys at places like Element and Autronic.

Currently there is a NASIOC member with a GC/STi swap (with an autronic standalone) underway that is going to be the first "field tester" for this interface.

Once testing is complete and I can get a report about how satisfied or not he is then I can feel more comfortable about putting these out into the field in a few more cars. We are currently working out some sort of a "basemap" if you want to call it that.

It should just be a few more days to a couple weeks.

I can build them right now if anyone else is ready to do some testing, I will let a couple more of these out under cost to explore this concept a bit more.

I'd like someone with a Hydra to try this so I can see what they can do with this, especially after Phil's input ^^^. Exciting really, what we could do to add DCCD control to the realm of being fully integrated with the standalone.
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Old 08-10-2007, 12:03 AM   #24
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well i have a hydra but ive never plugged it up myself with a laptop..im not tuned yet and running on a basemap made by phil for my setup for the breakin period. im guessing the control has to be modified by self adjusting the program or is only the knob needed?
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Old 08-10-2007, 05:54 PM   #25
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No, there is a lot more to it than just adding a knob and/or my new interface.
You would need your tuner or Phil to help you out with getting this all set up properly.
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