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Old 07-31-2007, 04:22 PM   #1
BlaKKStaRR
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Default Magnuson Moss - Turbo

Alright....modifications to my car is just a larger Topmount intercooler and turboback exhaust. Stock BPV, stock everything else.

My car went into the dealership for a TPS issue that they resolved, but upon recieving the car, there was a boost leak it seemed. Installed my boost gauge very soon after and found that it wasnt going above 5-6 psi. NO leaks at all.
Called the dealership, and they scheduled me for an appointment a week and a half later.

Next, all of a sudden the car is no longer boosting at all and get a faint whining sound (almost like a siren) from the engine bay. My guess is that something is going on with the turbo. Maybe it is not oiled/lubed properly.

I have it towed to the dealership on saturday and they will look at it Monday (July 30). They look at it (i think) and call and say they can not cover anything because of "Aftermarket parts" (my TMIC and DP). But if im not mistaken, the TMIC and DP are AFTER the turbo and have nothing to do with the intake air going into the compressor housing.

So Magnuson Moss of 1975, they have to PROVE that the intercooler or downpipe is the cause of the turbo not functioning properly correct??? I know nothing got into the turbo , i didnt remove any hoses or anything since getting the car back from the dealership, but i got the low boost effect and eventual no boost and turbo whine. no not spool, WHINE.

How could the IC/DP cause any of this? Because seriously i see no way that it could. I think it is an oil issue. They should at least check to find out what the problem is. Denying to even check it because of aftermarket parts isnt legal correct?
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Old 07-31-2007, 04:42 PM   #2
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Well, they will say that the turbo spooled faster than it was intended because of the less restrictive exhaust and the intercooler was not matched well for your turbo and blah blah blah...is what I am guessing.
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Old 07-31-2007, 06:29 PM   #3
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what if they go and see that it was an oil/lube issue
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Old 07-31-2007, 06:37 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlaKKStaRR View Post
what if they go and see that it was an oil/lube issue
They will never admit it, even if that's true. The only way is to get a Lawyer and leave it to them.. Once the dealer gets the contact from the lawyer they **** themselves. Threaten them with the word Lawyer all you like... it won't do any good till the Lawyer bends them over.
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Old 07-31-2007, 07:16 PM   #5
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For starters a Turbo Back exhaust with no engine management is a sure way to break something. Yes the dealer does have a leg on this, This is one of those you pay to play things.

I would contact SOA and tell them the case. They may ask for you to have the vehicle put back to stock(you may and could have to pay for this) and then re-diagnose, or they can flat out deny the claim.

Now, I would not even mention the word Lawyer unless you want to @ssrape yourself with no lube. SOA has and can prove that this will cause a failure. You think a company as big as they are, haven't been through this a few times? They, like any big company and dealerships have Lawyers retained for them. The question is do you have the money to go after them and pay your lawyers and theirs if you lose the case?

Good Luck
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Old 07-31-2007, 09:33 PM   #6
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I did have some EM i got a stg 2 flash.

if you knew the dealership that Flat4lv.com deals with you'd know the shoddy work they do.

a catless DP does NOT dictate turbo speed, boost and CFM's do.

either way they havent shown what messed up the turbo.

they also said that the intercoolerhoses (silicon not even 3 weeks old) were damaged. those were basically SEALED on. yes they did say the turbo needs replacing. but they still have not said waht killed the turbo, i seriously think it didnt get lubed or something, wouldnt they know?

either way, all of this happened as soon as I picked the car up from THEM (Subaru of Las Vegas), i havent touched anything on the car other than install a boost gauge. other than that, whatever happened shouldnt have seen as how it was JUST IN THEIR HANDS and they worked on it and said it was good for me to pick up. oh by the way when i picked it up, the hoses that go onto the 2 pipes in front of the intercooler were OFF. why? i dont know. i put them back on tightly

remember i said it was low boosting from when i picked the car up from them. i picked it up at night while the service dept was closed.
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Old 08-02-2007, 03:52 PM   #7
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BS - just remember (as alluded to above) that Magnuson-Moss only counts in a court of law, where a judge can make a ruling. It will cost you substantial lawyer's fees to get inside a court.
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Old 08-02-2007, 04:28 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlaKKStaRR View Post
I did have some EM i got a stg 2 flash.
......you didn't mention this earlier but I believe it only adds fuel to the fire since this would likely affect the way the turbo reacts to load/throttle input vs. stock. ......no?
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Old 08-02-2007, 04:47 PM   #9
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Um, did you just ask how an aftermarket downpipe and intercooler would affect turbo operation??? Give me a break... You ****ed it up and need to pay for it
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Old 08-02-2007, 05:00 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThrawlWRX View Post
They will never admit it, even if that's true. The only way is to get a Lawyer and leave it to them.. Once the dealer gets the contact from the lawyer they **** themselves. Threaten them with the word Lawyer all you like... it won't do any good till the Lawyer bends them over.
Not really, I could care less if you get a dealer involved for an issue between you and SOA. Go ahead, call a lawyer, I'll just shrug my shoulders and advise you that you are now paying for storage of the vehicle. Seriously, I could care less.
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Old 08-02-2007, 05:33 PM   #11
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While these add-on parts shouldn't make the turbo immediately eat itself *with proper tuning,* you always put yourself on the crap end of the warranty stick in this kind of case. There's a reason that they choose damn near 15psi as a stock boost setting... at 227hp from a tiny little turbo, that's already quite a bit of load on a mass-produced turbocharger, about as much as you could expect it to hold for the life of the car. Honestly, your EM would increase boost noticably, and your TBE would make the turbo spool up more quickly. Since these characteristics are well-known to shorten the life of a turbo charger, you really don't have a leg to stand on in court whether you have a lawyer or not. Besides, your legal bills would far exceed the cost of a near-new td04 anyway. Those of us who modify our cars sometimes have to deal with broken parts... stop complaining.
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Old 08-02-2007, 07:59 PM   #12
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yes but the car was JUST in the dealership and then the problem was occurring as soon as i got the car back from them. the charge pipe hoses werent even connected when i picked the car up from them.

car was working just fine since i stg 2 flashed in march, goes in for work recently (TPS), and then it comes out of the dealership with charge pipes not connected and a boost leak which quickly turned into no boost and a turbo whine.
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Old 08-02-2007, 08:00 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhargis View Post
While these add-on parts shouldn't make the turbo immediately eat itself *with proper tuning,* you always put yourself on the crap end of the warranty stick in this kind of case. There's a reason that they choose damn near 15psi as a stock boost setting... at 227hp from a tiny little turbo, that's already quite a bit of load on a mass-produced turbocharger, about as much as you could expect it to hold for the life of the car. Honestly, your EM would increase boost noticably, and your TBE would make the turbo spool up more quickly. Since these characteristics are well-known to shorten the life of a turbo charger, you really don't have a leg to stand on in court whether you have a lawyer or not. Besides, your legal bills would far exceed the cost of a near-new td04 anyway. Those of us who modify our cars sometimes have to deal with broken parts... stop complaining.
true..im not complainin lol
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Old 08-03-2007, 11:25 AM   #14
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soa usually asks the service writer if there is any power adders to the vehicle, when trying to get warranty work cleared. If you fess up and not be a punk (im gonna get a lawyer) about things, soa may goodwill you part of the cost to fix it. Now on the other hand if your a punk about it.... good luck sir, it may be time to start looking to upgrade that turbo.

people are way to quick to throw the mma into the game. you modified your vehicle, it broke. now its time to man up.
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Old 08-04-2007, 01:19 AM   #15
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i already an FP evo3 16g....just waiting to get the car straight
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Old 08-04-2007, 12:51 PM   #16
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stock turbo- 150 dollars

lawyer- 150 dollars an hour x8 plus your gonna lose.

sorry dude, cough up the 150 bucks and move on.
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Old 08-04-2007, 01:18 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by BlaKKStaRR View Post
i already an FP evo3 16g....just waiting to get the car straight
If you already have a replacement turbo, why do you want SOA to replace your stocker?
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Old 08-04-2007, 11:53 PM   #18
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ok look...i had a stock turbo adn that one got messed up, got another stock turbo for 120, put it on, ran fine, took it to dealership because it said TPS sensor, they "fixed" it but it seemed like it wouldnt boost, and the charge pipes were off when i got it from them, it was only at like 5-7 psi after i put em back on and everythin, then that turbo blew....so now im like wtf happened while it was at the dealership, so i took it to them, and now they say they arent coverin it.

so the problem isnt the turbo...its something with the engine or something...turbo was in great shape when bought

Last edited by BlaKKStaRR; 08-05-2007 at 12:13 AM.
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Old 08-05-2007, 11:49 AM   #19
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Blakk what happened to the first turbo? Did you tell the dealer all this (that the turbo they were looking at wasn't the original??) Where did you get the second turbo? Did the TPS sensor thing start shortly after the 2nd turbo install? Now I'm more confused??
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Old 08-05-2007, 02:18 PM   #20
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jhgfjgfjf

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Old 08-05-2007, 02:26 PM   #21
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DON'T have them replace the turbo.

Buy a used turbo on here for $100-175 and take the hour or two to throw it on. Shoot, for all the $$$ you save, you can buy a nice set of tools if you don't already have them.....or go to your local forum and ask for help.
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Old 08-05-2007, 02:29 PM   #22
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You are screwed as soon as they find out that you had a stage 2 flash. Any mods to the ECU is grounds for a voided warranty 100%.

Ummm....no

They can deny your warrantly if it was/could be related top the specific problem. Your warranty does not get voided.

If your glove-box breaks, your don't get the shaft because you have a flashed ECU. There is no voiding.
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Old 08-05-2007, 02:44 PM   #23
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You are likely screwed.

Sorry to be so harsh about it but when you go adding after market parts you really should find a competent tuner shop to help you when you have issues. Asking the dealer to help with non-OEM equipment probably isn't the best idea. It may not sound fair but swapping out the intercooler and adding a full turbo-back exhaust is fairly certain to get warranty claims involving the drive train denied.

You can quote MM all you want but are YOU prepared to do more than talk lawyer...you need to be.
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Old 08-05-2007, 04:15 PM   #24
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You started with
Quote:
just a larger Topmount intercooler and turboback exhaust. Stock BPV, stock everything else
Then added
Quote:
I did have some EM i got a stg 2 flash.
as well as
Quote:
intercooler hoses (silicone not even 3 weeks old)
then mentioned, oh, by the way
Quote:
...i had a stock turbo adn that one got messed up
so, what you meant to say was "the car is stock other than being flashed to stage 2 with a larger intercooler and catless downpipe and that while it has blown a turbo before, the used one I replaced it with was fine..." - so despite the fact that you were running increased boost pressure with an aftermarket turboback exhaust, Subaru should foot the bill when your second turbo blows?
This wasn't quite what Magnusson Moss is meant to cover...
You really don't understand how the mods all work the turbo harder (larger tmic = larger volume to pressurize, catless = faster spool, EM = higher boost pressure, etc.)...
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Old 08-05-2007, 04:47 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlaKKStaRR View Post

So Magnuson Moss of 1975, they have to PROVE that the intercooler or downpipe is the cause of the turbo not functioning properly correct???

"The federal minimum standards for full warranties are waived if the warrantor can show that the problem associated with a warranted consumer product was caused by damage while in the possession of the consumer, or by unreasonable use including a failure to provide reasonable and necessary maintenance."

You can be darn sure running the turbo beyond factory parameters will constitute unreasonable use and will make an easy case for causation. Additionally, meeting the first part might be an easier way to deny your claim as well.

Last edited by REX8; 08-05-2007 at 04:59 PM.
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