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Old 08-01-2007, 04:14 AM   #1
IcemanAus
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Default VT Commodore vs stock WRX

The other night I raced what I believe to be a stock WRX in my stock Holden VT Commodore (you may be unfamiliar with the model, its a 3.8L naturally aspirated V6 engine making 147kw at the rear wheels stock).

I won. I was not expecting this, in fact it seems downright impossible.

The only reason I came up with brainstorming is that he got some serious wheelspin and what looked to be a bit of hop too coming off the line, and perhaps was a bit of a retard shifting his gears (My car is auto).

How did I do this? Because for all intents and purposes, I believe the WRX is the superior car when it comes to speed.

EDIT: I should probably also point out that my car is far from light, being a four door sedan designed for family use, mainly. I don't have kerb weight figures but I believe it is around the 1400kg mark dry.

EDIT NUMBER TWO: I also want to clarify that I'm asking this as a purely intellectual question, and not an opportunity to brag or ask for praise for how cool I am.
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Last edited by IcemanAus; 08-01-2007 at 04:55 AM.
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Old 08-01-2007, 04:45 AM   #2
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Ill give u a medal...
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Old 08-01-2007, 04:54 AM   #3
IcemanAus
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The response I expected...

I'm not bragging about what I did, ok, I just want to know what happened, so that when I do get my WRX (i'm on track with savings to have the budget for one in about 2-3 months), I don't have the same thing happen to me.
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Old 08-01-2007, 05:12 AM   #4
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wheelspin on a stop wrx? (i dont own one but im really surprised on this)

the lurch is he prolly bogged the engine on the launch.

btw sohuldnt this be on an aussie subaru club forum?
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Old 08-01-2007, 05:44 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IcemanAus View Post
The response I expected...

I'm not bragging about what I did, ok, I just want to know what happened, so that when I do get my WRX (i'm on track with savings to have the budget for one in about 2-3 months), I don't have the same thing happen to me.
I see now that u have edited ur inital post..


The simple thing is the guy cant drive or that he wasnt putting his foot down..

if he bogged down on the line and u took of without a drama then there is no way he could peg u back.

Have a look at the figures for both cars and that will tell u the story..

btw dont put this on any subaru Aus forums as it will get u nowhere. the answer is in the figures and that tells u the driver of the subaru cant drive.
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Old 08-01-2007, 05:46 AM   #6
IcemanAus
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the Aussie subaru clubs, in my experience, seem to be elitist.

I have by no means tried all of them, but having a read through here, most of you seem fairly experienced, so I thought I'd ask here.

And yes, I edited my initial post, clearly stating it as an Edit, so its not a cop out to clarify my meaning for others.

thanks for clearing that up though.
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Old 08-01-2007, 08:54 AM   #7
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Your car weighs 1550 kg = 3400 lbs
Your car has 147 kw = 200 hp
Your car has 304 Nm = 225 lb*ft

WRX Weighs 1410 kg = 3100 lbs
WRX has 170 kw = 227 hp
WRX has 294 Nm = 217 lb*ft

Power is basically a wash. The only advantages the WRX has is the weight and AWD and the launch. And even the weight can be a wash if you weigh 140 lbs and the wrx driver weighs 250 lbs and has amps and subs in the car. A 2002 WRX will run low 14's stock with a good launch, with a bogged launch it will run 15's.

So you say the guy bogged the launch and you are surprised you won?

With my STi if I run a 13.1 with a 1.7 60 foot time, then I go up on the next run and bog the launch and run a 2.0 60 foot time I will run a 13.7-13.8 in the quarter mile. The launch is everything, if you lose that time on your 60 foot you cant magically make it up.
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Old 08-01-2007, 09:41 AM   #8
IcemanAus
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Interesting, thanks for clearing that up.

So what did he do wrong to bog the launch?

Or, more precisely, since you guys can't really know for sure, and neither can I...what *could* he have done wrong to bog the launch?
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Old 08-01-2007, 10:51 AM   #9
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Its easy, don't keep your revs up on the launch and you will sit there waiting for boost. Feels like forever when it happens too.
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Old 08-01-2007, 11:58 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IcemanAus View Post
So what did he do wrong to bog the launch?

Or, more precisely, since you guys can't really know for sure, and neither can I...what *could* he have done wrong to bog the launch?
low revs......the wrx is very slow off boost below 3k rpm.

my 1991 nissan sentra was faster than my wrx off boost.

I saw a test on 5th Gear one time between an Evo and a Kia or some piece of crap car. It was a test where they started in 4th or 5th gear at 1500 rpm and the Kia won. The kia took off at first and by the time the evo hit boost and started to catch up the race was over.

You have to know you are racing to be fast in the WRX. If you already take off and then realize the guy next to you is racing, you either have to wait it out until the boost starts to come on or push in the clutch and rev it up. Either way the wrx already lost the only advantage it really has, the awd launch. The wrx is also a dog from a roll and will lose to what are perceived as "lesser" or "non sports cars" in many situations.
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Old 08-01-2007, 01:14 PM   #11
TheShad0w
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Aww the sad truth
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Old 08-02-2007, 09:01 AM   #12
OzGC8
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dont know ,why a WRX ll go against a VT......think you were the only 1 racing,hence the win!!!
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Old 08-02-2007, 11:36 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
low revs......the wrx is very slow off boost below 3k rpm.

my 1991 nissan sentra was faster than my wrx off boost.

I saw a test on 5th Gear one time between an Evo and a Kia or some piece of crap car. It was a test where they started in 4th or 5th gear at 1500 rpm and the Kia won. The kia took off at first and by the time the evo hit boost and started to catch up the race was over.

You have to know you are racing to be fast in the WRX. If you already take off and then realize the guy next to you is racing, you either have to wait it out until the boost starts to come on or push in the clutch and rev it up. Either way the wrx already lost the only advantage it really has, the awd launch. The wrx is also a dog from a roll and will lose to what are perceived as "lesser" or "non sports cars" in many situations.
unless you brake boost in the right gear... which once again you would be required to know you are racing

and i'm sure you are aware that awd causes a greater drive train hp loss too.
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Old 08-02-2007, 12:01 PM   #14
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Who ever said stock WRX's were fast?? I remember mine being an absolute dog when it was stock. On a hot day the thing would barely move at all. The great part is that you can make it decent for relatively little money.

-- Ed
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Old 08-02-2007, 12:24 PM   #15
SilverSurfer04STi
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Yeah ^^^ what he said. WRX is decently quick car if you drive it right. It is by no means fast. Even an STI is not a truly fast car imho (bone stock - can be very fast with mods). STI is VERY quick with proper launch technique though.

To the OP, the WRX you ran against obviously had a pitiful driver...
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Old 08-02-2007, 01:18 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OzGC8 View Post
dont know ,why a WRX ll go against a VT......think you were the only 1 racing,hence the win!!!
thread winner.
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Old 08-03-2007, 03:09 AM   #17
OzGC8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaus View Post
Who ever said stock WRX's were fast?? I remember mine being an absolute dog when it was stock. On a hot day the thing would barely move at all. The great part is that you can make it decent for relatively little money.

-- Ed

The VT he s reffering does 0-100..maybe 8sec and 16-17secs down the 1/4
Any WRX does the 1/4 in 14.5sec or less

ps. no 1 races VT's down here...period!!
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Old 08-03-2007, 03:30 AM   #18
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my 06 stock wrx killed so many things, and i dont get how our cars suck from a roll, i have one a few little take offs from a roll, in the right rpm. but ya
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Old 08-03-2007, 03:41 AM   #19
IcemanAus
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yeah the 0-100 (km/h, not mph) is 8.4 seconds claimed...and from my experience thats pretty consistent (ie, it does that most launches), and it launches well, I usually get the drop on most WRXs, then they speed past me, but hey, some drivers just can't win races whether they're driving a Barina or a Ferrari.
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Old 08-03-2007, 04:22 PM   #20
Phatron
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OzGC8 View Post
Any WRX does the 1/4 in 14.5sec or less
Those may be the #'s quoted in the magazines, but real life is a different story. Weather, altitude, driver, etc all play a big role. I have seen stock sti's run mid 15's all night at the track. These guys listed below are only the ones that werent too embarrassed to post their times and this list hasnt been updated since 2005. Plus this is only a small sample size, only people in the US and only people on this website. The average person will not run quicker than a 14.5 in a stock WRX.

Motortrend has the 06 STi 1/4 mile time at 13.0@103.5 mph. When I had full exhaust and a off the shelf map I could only trap 101 mph at the track. But my track sucks and the weather sucks and the density altitiude is ~5000 ft. However, my 13.1 @ 101 mph would be a 12.18 @ 108 mph when corrected for altitude. Real world #'s are one thing corrected ones are another.

14.568@91.316 1.989 9.272@73.961 Turbo WRX - 2002
14.568@93.22 2.022 9.317@74.51 Turbo WRX - 2002
14.577@91.9 2.024 9.28@73.1 Turbo WRX -
14.5@94.14 2.092 9.3@78.87 Turbo WRX -
14.64@92.76 2.088 9.39@73.23 Turbo WRX
14.658@93.76 2.189 9.438@74.70 Turbo WRX
14.666@90.4 2.022 9.309@73.77 Turbo WRX
14.75@91.49 2.045 9.343@74.50 Turbo WRX
14.834@89.33 2.006 9.408@73.32 Turbo WRX Wagon
14.840@90.26 2.107 9.467@72.79 Turbo WRX
14.869@91.3 2.11 9.482@72.60 Turbo WRX
14.981@90.24 2.141 9.614@72.52 Turbo WRX
15.96@91.00 2.300 9.6@55 Turbo WRX

Last edited by Phatron; 08-03-2007 at 04:36 PM.
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Old 08-03-2007, 04:31 PM   #21
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I wish I still had the timeslip. I ran 14.1 in an 02 stock. I ran it at Coastal Plains Raceway outside of Jacksonville NC a few years back but I don't have the timeslip anymore. I did run numorus 14.2's though at anywhere between 93 and 94mph. I never did repeat the 14.1 though.
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Old 08-04-2007, 04:42 AM   #22
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i ran a 14.0 at Sacramento raceway with only a cat-back. clutch was slipping bad around 4-5000 rpm. i bogged and ran a 14.7
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