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Old 01-20-2004, 09:08 PM   #251
BIGSKYWRX
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Quote:
Originally posted by relirex
This has happened to me a couple times this winter when it has been cold out. I haven't done much investigating because it hasn't happened too many times and I knew that this problem exists. My question is, my car has 36000 miles on it and is out of Bumper to bumper warranty but does have the powertrain warranty still. Will they cover this for me? (best case scenario)

Rob
Best case scenario is Subaru will do a voluntary recall and nobody pays anything for a design flaw. I'd suggest you file a complaint, like the 17 other folks have- I thought the # would be higher by the number of posts here.

I think it's out best bet as most vehiclles are 02's and most of us are out of warranty.

Mike
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Old 01-20-2004, 10:54 PM   #252
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Quote:
Originally posted by SweetBaboo777
is this just for '02s?
I'm pretty certain I have the exact same problem as everyone else, even though I have an older model (2000) with a different engine (2.2L).

I tightened the clamps on the small rubber hose and haven't gotten the gas smell or seen any leaking or wetting around the fuel lines, even though temperatures have returned to zero degrees. Hopefully it won't come back, but then again it would be nice to just have those fuel lines replaced for free.
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Old 01-20-2004, 11:00 PM   #253
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How do i go about filing a complaint and with whom?

Rob
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Old 01-20-2004, 11:45 PM   #254
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Quote:
Originally posted by relirex
How do i go about filing a complaint and with whom?

Rob

http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/

takes about 5-7 minutes
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Old 01-21-2004, 02:32 PM   #255
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I tried to file a complaint but the damn page get's hosed every time so it doesn't go through. I guess that page doesn't like my Safari browser, or I just suck.
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Old 01-21-2004, 04:22 PM   #256
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Has anyone with this gas leak problem encountered starting problems too? I've been getting the smell for the last month. I had an almost no-start when it was around 10F below. It cranked for about 30 or 40 times before it caught. The other day it was about -20F (without the windchill), and although the car would crank, albeit slightly slowly, it would not start. It would not even pop, until the battery was almost totally dead. I truly had about 3 or 4 minutes of cranking power (I cranked it only a couple of seconds at a time before pausing). It finally started to pop, just as the battery went dead. When I finally found someone to give me a jump, it instantly started, and within a few seconds, I had so much smoke coming out from the passenger side front of the engine, that I yelled for the other car to back away. I thought my car was on fire. It was a really thick smoke screen.

I am assuming that the fuel was not getting to the engine, but exiting throught the path of least resistance...right onto the manifold. When the car started the fuel instantly vaporized into that thick smoke cloud.

Anyone else have any starting problems along with the gas smell?

Just for informational purposes....my car has over 70,000 miles on it. Subaru Dealer says I have to pay for repairs, as I'm out of warranty. Subaru Corporate says my Classic warranty will pay for the "Bulletin" repairs, but not the "four hoseclamp fix". I asked Corporate, what if I cannot afford the fix, and car burns. Their answer was that Subaru has absolutely no liability once the car is out of waranty. This truly should be a recall, and not a bulletin.

Last edited by andygold; 01-21-2004 at 04:28 PM.
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Old 01-21-2004, 04:59 PM   #257
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Quote:
Originally posted by andygold
Has anyone with this gas leak problem encountered starting problems too? I've been getting the smell for the last month. I had an almost no-start when it was around 10F below. It cranked for about 30 or 40 times before it caught. The other day it was about -20F (without the windchill), and although the car would crank, albeit slightly slowly, it would not start. It would not even pop, until the battery was almost totally dead. I truly had about 3 or 4 minutes of cranking power (I cranked it only a couple of seconds at a time before pausing). It finally started to pop, just as the battery went dead. When I finally found someone to give me a jump, it instantly started, and within a few seconds, I had so much smoke coming out from the passenger side front of the engine, that I yelled for the other car to back away. I thought my car was on fire. It was a really thick smoke screen.

I am assuming that the fuel was not getting to the engine, but exiting throught the path of least resistance...right onto the manifold. When the car started the fuel instantly vaporized into that thick smoke cloud.

Anyone else have any starting problems along with the gas smell?

Just for informational purposes....my car has over 70,000 miles on it. Subaru Dealer says I have to pay for repairs, as I'm out of warranty. Subaru Corporate says my Classic warranty will pay for the "Bulletin" repairs, but not the "four hoseclamp fix". I asked Corporate, what if I cannot afford the fix, and car burns. Their answer was that Subaru has absolutely no liability once the car is out of waranty. This truly should be a recall, and not a bulletin.
If I were you I would contact your consumer protection agency and a lawyer. Inform Subaru of this and see what they say then. If no reaction, then it might be time to call you local Fox affiliates news department as well as Consumer Reports.
Maybe that will wake Subaru up.
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Old 01-21-2004, 06:23 PM   #258
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The starting issue is a battery one, the stock battery sucks. When it's cold it does not have enough CCAs to start the car so you crank and crank until the car heats up a little from all the cranking. A new battery and you will be fine. I went to the dealer when my car still had warranty and they didn't give me a new battery. I bought a optima and never have starting issues again.

I tightened down the clamps for the gas leak and it does appear to be working. This spring when I can work on my car I will fix it for good, maybe even new fuel rails.

My car:
does not start in the cold
leaks gas in the cold
drivers side window does not work
trim rattles like a bag of returnable cans
seat breaks cuz I bigger than the typical Japan man
clutch sucks and stutters like it has turrets
Two of the three spray nozels don't work right
had crappy tires

Tell me why I have this car again. Oh ya once I do get it going and get loopy from the fumes I get loopy from the fun in the snow and the speed I have.
Itís like dating Olson sister itís cool but not as cool as it could be if it was alright.
Rob

Last edited by DetroitWRX; 01-21-2004 at 08:55 PM.
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Old 01-21-2004, 06:35 PM   #259
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DetroitWRX....my battery was new this spring. It's a DieHard Gold, and although not the best, it's CCA is close to the Optima's. I do have an Optima on order just in case though. I did have enough juice to crank the car for close to 4 minutes. That should be enough to start the car.
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Old 01-21-2004, 06:42 PM   #260
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The DieHard will be good the Optima is not worth spending for if you already have a good battery. For the reason not to start to be the fuel leak it would have to be very bad and like a pool of gas forming and if it's that bad don't drive it.
The flat motor as a whole start really bad in the cold. 911s never start in the cold well and that could be the reason I don't know.
Rob
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Old 01-21-2004, 10:34 PM   #261
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Man, this thread is great!

COuple things mentioned on several of the pages--

1)my car is in a garage in mild (about 20 at night), and I have the smell every morning, afternoon, and night.

2) The car is tricky to start on cold mornings (could be the battery, but it could be the fact that there's no fuel in my lines.

The leak I have is the same as the one pictured in Stevo 's post on page 8. Is this the same as the original set of pictures on this thread from Sube151? His looked like he tightened screws towards the front of the engine, and my leak is right under the throttle body. You can see the hard line, but not the soft line. is this just the back end of the same soft line? It's going to an independant shop tomorrow since Subaru won't cover it. i've got 29k, but it's modded. If they don't want to fix it for free, I'm surely not giving them any $$$ to do it.

3) Most important: #10054625
I put mine under Impreza though (ooops) I didn't see WRX as an option. Hopefully we'll get some type of response from Subaru. if 1/2 the people witht htis problem filed a complaint, the powers that be would realize that there was enough free-flowing fuel in the air from these cars to detonate a small city!!!!!!!!!
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Old 01-22-2004, 07:28 AM   #262
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Interesting that you guys are having a hard time starting your cars... knock on wood, but mine has been great, even when it was -20 last week. Sure, it made a hell of a lot of bad noises, but she started right up
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Old 01-22-2004, 12:30 PM   #263
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Just got the call that mine's done. Dealer's had it since Friday 1/16/04, and I've been stuck with an '04 Grand Prix since then. While it may have been free, I got what I paid for. An absolute piece of you know what, complete with marginally all-season tires.
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Old 01-22-2004, 01:24 PM   #264
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Last winter at zero degree temperatures in Keystone CO I had the intense gas smell on restrat. Saw gasoline that had leaked in the usual place. Dealer replaced hoses and fuel rails per service bulletin.

Last weekend at -5 F in Fraser the same thing happened. Of course, now that I am down in Denver, no problem.

55,000 miles, out of warranty. What are my chances of having them redo the fix at no cost?

It is stupid that I even have to ask. This should be a recall, just like the ABS problem. AFter all, we are talking raw gasoline pooling on the engine! Both are under NHTSA investigation, but no recall. Frustrating.

Superg
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Old 01-22-2004, 01:57 PM   #265
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I wonder if (perhaps sadly) this issue would get more attention as an emissions issue than as a safety one. After all, what the hell is the point of making sure that your gas cap is tightened 3 clicks when all your fuel is spilling out onto your engine anyway?
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Old 01-22-2004, 02:01 PM   #266
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Quote:
Originally posted by banman
I wonder if (perhaps sadly) this issue would get more attention as an emissions issue than as a safety one. After all, what the hell is the point of making sure that your gas cap is tightened 3 clicks when all your fuel is spilling out onto your engine anyway?
It'll be an even more serious emissions problem when someone's car catches fire
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Old 01-22-2004, 07:11 PM   #267
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I can't believe that that hasn't happened yet. All it takes is a spark for fumes to blow up.
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Old 01-22-2004, 10:18 PM   #268
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I just got a call from the NHTSA in response to the report I submitted last week. The guy said they are thoroughly investigating the problem in WRX's, but I have a 2000 Outback Sport so they are interested in seeing if the problem goes further than the WRX. Hopefully something will come of this. I haven't had the problem in the past week, but others here have reported it recurring after they did the temporary fix of tightening the hose clamps. We shall see.
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Old 01-23-2004, 12:21 PM   #269
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Just got an e-mail from someone at the NHTSA looking for more info. Hopefully this will lead to something...
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Old 01-23-2004, 02:12 PM   #270
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NHTSA Complaint #10054743

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Old 01-23-2004, 02:55 PM   #271
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Just replied to a request for additional info from the NHTSA. Things are starting to roll a little bit it appears. Hopefully SOA (FHI) will get onboard.

It's obvious they changed this fuel line arrangement w/ 03 + models, time to get everyone else up to date.

Big Sky

Last edited by BIGSKYWRX; 01-24-2004 at 12:39 PM.
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Old 01-23-2004, 03:16 PM   #272
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Just answered a phone call and gave some more info to a guy from NHTSA. Let's hope something happens
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Old 01-24-2004, 09:22 AM   #273
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I too spoke with a gentleman from NHTSA. He has been in contact with Subaru Corporate. He was unaware that the area in the engine compartment (driver's side, below throttle body, 2 separate leaky hoses) is an additional area where the fuel leaks are located. He thought that the only problem was in the area that Subaru has the Service Bulletin directed towards. His assumption was that if Subaru were to perform the bulletin repair, the problem is solved. If you are called(or call) by the NHTSA, or if you file a complaint, make sure that you tell them that the Bulletined area, is NOT the only location that there is fuel leakage. We need to set the record straight!

Also, I was asked not to use the NHTSA gentleman's name in any postings, as this will necessitate his personally answering any phone calls/ emails aimed directly to him. This board gets out to thousands of members, and if he has to answer every correspondance, he will be unable to do his job(of getting our cars fixed----hopefully for free). There are other reps at NHTSA that are also handling this problem. So, singling any one out by using his/her name on these message boards, is not in our best interests. My time on top of the soapbox is over. Sorry to rant! Just trying to help the cause.
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Old 01-24-2004, 12:41 PM   #274
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I haven't seen leaking on the driver's side- knock on wood, only directly under the turbo inlet hose. Sounds like a couple of problems.
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Old 01-24-2004, 02:06 PM   #275
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I had the gas leak problem as well, and only when it got cold. But its all fixed. My dealer said they have seen a few cars come in like this and here is what they said.

When subaru was building the cars they didnt tighten the hose clamps on the lower fuel rail. So when the engine is really cold the hoses contract and leak a little fuel causing the real strong fuel smell inside the car. There is only a couple of hoses you can see without taking the intercooler and intake off.

So all under warranty they replaced the lower fuel rail, hoses and clamps and made sure they were all tightened properly.

And smell is gone and the car has gone thru a few cold stints since it was fixed and no problems.
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