How may run Amsoil?

[Autopilot747]

Just broke in the new motor and was thinking running Amsoil 20w50 Racing oil. I always let the car warm up before driving and it always seams to run pretty hot, + I drive the hell out of it. Anyone ever used the 20w50?

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[Silverpike]

Amsoil is very high quality oil, but racing oil is not to be used on street cars. It has very high viscosity, which is good for all out racing (makes more power). The problem is it does not have the proper warm-up properties which prevent wear in street cars.

[06grayrex]

Originally Posted by Autopilot747

Just broke in the new motor and was thinking running Amsoil 20w50 Racing oil. I always let the car warm up before driving and it always seams to run pretty hot, + I drive the hell out of it. Anyone ever used the 20w50?

I would look in to Amsoil (TSO)0w30 racing oil. GREAT STUFF I use it and nothing but AMSOIL fluids

[Autopilot747]

Well I want to run something pretty thick. I spun a rod bearing in my last engine on 5w30.

[nxttruck2002]

Red Line 10w30

[Valhakar]

OK how far into the break in? Forged or cast pistons? There are a lot of variables here.

I am just finishing up on my 3K break in. 5w30 dino oil, changed and refilled at 1000 miles. I am probably going to step up to 10w30 Royal Purple as I am in AZ. I am going with RP simply because my local PepBoys carries it at a reasonable price.

[nxttruck2002]

I've read that RP 30 weights shear to a thin 20.

[Valhakar]

Lovely.

The problem is this. Everyone has read something about someone else's oil. Part of it is the total proliferation of fanboi blogs and so called experts posting up their opinions. The change in Mobil 1 formula is well documented, but the high end oil debates rarely are.

You have a link? I suspect it is a dealer or reseller site for the competition.

[nxttruck2002]

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...4#post18831374
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...referrerid=767
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...referrerid=767

[Autopilot747]

Originally Posted by Valhakar

OK how far into the break in? Forged or cast pistons? There are a lot of variables here.

I am just finishing up on my 3K break in. 5w30 dino oil, changed and refilled at 1000 miles. I am probably going to step up to 10w30 Royal Purple as I am in AZ. I am going with RP simply because my local PepBoys carries it at a reasonable price.

Ok, right now i'm using regular 5w30 and changed it at 500, 1500, and 3000. I now want to put some synthetic in it. I don't care for talk about which brand is better than the next, I just want to know what viscosity to run in the Texas heat. I was thinking 20w50 in the summer and maybe a 10w30 for the winter. BTW, I noticed a bit of burn off on the 5w30 that Im running now. Thats another reason I want a thicker oil. Also, this car runs HOT , I cant open the hood without burnnin myself , that may be a bit of an overstatement but you get the idea.

Engine:

CP pistons
Ferrea +1mm intake and exhaust valves
Ferrea dual valve springs
Ferrea titanium retainers
DPR stage 2 cams
Port and polish

APS cold air 65mm
APS 3.5 turbo back
APS turbo inlet
APS DR725 FMIC

Cusco headders
Perrin up-pipe
FP green
warlbro 255lp
PE 850's
MRT radiator
HKS BOV
Cusco oil catch can
Greddy E-01 EBC

[Valhakar]

OK there are 2-3 oil analysys there which mean little. It is also far from scientific as the variables for each car are unknown. It does make one wonder what is going on.

Don't get me wrong, I am not promoting Royal Purple. The Analysys both had elevated silicon and fuel levels. When you see this you can toss the results into the "abuse" bucket. Something is causing the engine to stress netting those results. Could be anything from a bad MAF to simply a bad tune.

I would also like to point out that the RP site states 10w40 as the recomendation for boosted engines. I will use 10w30 as a step in to 10w40 and 20w50. The plan is to use a lighter oil for the next 3K then switch to a heavier oil. By then I may choose to go with Nipon or some other synthetic.

I think a quote from one of your threads sums things up.

If you change every 3,000 miles, it doesn't really matter. If you try going over 5,000 miles on an oil in severe driving conditions the brand and viscosity become more of a factor.

-Dennis

[cdigerlando]

Have you rebuilt the bottom end? From your post it did not look like you did. I am not an oil expert, but one consideration would be your bearing clearances. Stock bearing clearance tolerance ranges can be really tight. If you rebuilt the bottom end and stayed at the high end of the bearing clearance range, a higher viscosity oil might be better, but you run the risk of having more startup wear. If you use a stock bottom end, a thinner 10W30 oil will flow better. If you are that concerned about temperature, I would start monitoring coolant temp, oil temp, oil pressure. From your setup I see that you have an aftermarket radiator. This should help keep your system temps reasonable. If you are still having problems you could also consider an external oil cooler. You might also check simple stuff like your fan operation if temps are a problem.

I ran 10W30 amsoil synthetic in my EG 33 SVX turbocharged for a short time to 135,000 miles until I broke a ring land and blew a head gasket. My bearings and journals look brand new. If you are that concerned about having enough oil pressure due to the loss in viscosity, you could upgrade to the new 12 mm oil pump that is now available. You can also shim your oil pump. If the oil temps are too high you could also add an oil cooler. I don't think shifting to a higher than recommended viscosity is going to help.

[Autopilot747]

Originally Posted by cdigerlando

Have you rebuilt the bottom end? From your post it did not look like you did. I am not an oil expert, but one consideration would be your bearing clearances. Stock bearing clearance tolerance ranges can be really tight. If you rebuilt the bottom end and stayed at the high end of the bearing clearance range, a higher viscosity oil might be better, but you run the risk of having more startup wear. If you use a stock bottom end, a thinner 10W30 oil will flow better. If you are that concerned about temperature, I would start monitoring coolant temp, oil temp, oil pressure. From your setup I see that you have an aftermarket radiator. This should help keep your system temps reasonable. If you are still having problems you could also consider an external oil cooler. You might also check simple stuff like your fan operation if temps are a problem.

I ran 10W30 amsoil synthetic in my EG 33 SVX turbocharged for a short time to 135,000 miles until I broke a ring land and blew a head gasket. My bearings and journals look brand new. If you are that concerned about having enough oil pressure due to the loss in viscosity, you could upgrade to the new 12 mm oil pump that is now available. You can also shim your oil pump. If the oil temps are too high you could also add an oil cooler. I don't think shifting to a higher than recommended viscosity is going to help.

You may be right, the bottem end is not built. I may start out with a 10w30 and work my way up. The coolant temps seem fine and I have added water weter, but the car still seems like it's running realy hot. Just seems like the things on fire every time I open the hood Maybe subies are just like that. I just don't remember it running that hot when I had the previous engine.

[shemoves]

I broke in my motor on Castrol GTX dino oil out to 8k. The UOA I got back after that was excellent. While engine wear is highest out to 1k miles, there is still some that occurs until 8-12k miles. The time to go synth is up to you, but once you do, stay.

I now run RL 10w40 year round, and mix in a quart of 20w50 during J, J, and August.

I think 10w40 would be a good year-round for you.

All that being said, talk to your motor's builder and go with what they say. Tolereances/clearances can make a big difference.

It is generally not adviseable to run racing oil as a DD oil. I know it's lack of detergents is one reason. Also, perhaps (pure speculation) it is not made to withstand being heat-cycled from ambient to 200+ degrees so much.

[Autopilot747]

Well the car is only a weekend driver. It sees about 150 miles per week max. I asume that there is no difference on the hot side between a 10w40 and a 5w40?? I was thinking about getting the Amsoil European Formula 5w40

Also, at what mileage did you tune your car??

Originally Posted by shemoves

I broke in my motor on Castrol GTX dino oil out to 8k. The UOA I got back after that was excellent. While engine wear is highest out to 1k miles, there is still some that occurs until 8-12k miles. The time to go synth is up to you, but once you do, stay.

I now run RL 10w40 year round, and mix in a quart of 20w50 during J, J, and August.

I think 10w40 would be a good year-round for you.

All that being said, talk to your motor's builder and go with what they say. Tolereances/clearances can make a big difference.

It is generally not adviseable to run racing oil as a DD oil. I know it's lack of detergents is one reason. Also, perhaps (pure speculation) it is not made to withstand being heat-cycled from ambient to 200+ degrees so much.

[shemoves]

Originally Posted by Autopilot747

You may be right, the bottem end is not built. I may start out with a 10w30 and work my way up. The coolant temps seem fine and I have added water weter, but the car still seems like it's running realy hot. Just seems like the things on fire every time I open the hood Maybe subies are just like that. I just don't remember it running that hot when I had the previous engine.

Subies (turbo = lots of hotness) do get hot, and retain a lot of heat. I really recommend oil temp and press gauges so you can monitor what goes on over time. I would shy away from 'working up' to a particular weight. IIRC, motors like consistency with oil. I'd go 10w30 castrol GTX dino, with a 3k OCI, and run it out to about 8-10k miles. On your first 'batch,' do a UOA at 2k miles to make sure all is going well. Run another UOA at the end of the entire dyno cycle. When you switch to synth, do a UOA of it after the first 3k miles of use to make sure the motor likes it. Then another UOA maybe on the third of fourth chnage after that. If you wanna go all out, When you do switch to full synth, do a 'double change.'

(Double change = changing the oil twice in a row. Goes like this: Do a standard oil change using new synth oil and a cheap (but new) filter. Start the motor and let it run a for a minute or two. Rev it a couple times to get some pressure running through the system. Turn off car, let cool. Do another standard oil change, using the same (but new) synth oil and a new Subaru filter.)

[Autopilot747]

Originally Posted by shemoves

Subies (turbo = lots of hotness) do get hot, and retain a lot of heat. I really recommend oil temp and press gauges so you can monitor what goes on over time. I would shy away from 'working up' to a particular weight. IIRC, motors like consistency with oil. I'd go 10w30 castrol GTX dino, with a 3k OCI, and run it out to about 8-10k miles. On your first 'batch,' do a UOA at 2k miles to make sure all is going well. Run another UOA at the end of the entire dyno cycle. When you switch to synth, do a UOA of it after the first 3k miles of use to make sure the motor likes it. Then another UOA maybe on the third of fourth chnage after that. If you wanna go all out, When you do switch to full synth, do a 'double change.'

(Double change = changing the oil twice in a row. Goes like this: Do a standard oil change using new synth oil and a cheap (but new) filter. Start the motor and let it run a for a minute or two. Rev it a couple times to get some pressure running through the system. Turn off car, let cool. Do another standard oil change, using the same (but new) synth oil and a new Subaru filter.)

Im already running a regular 5w30, is it ok to run the dino oil now that the motor already has 3k on it?? also, Im getting dyno tuned this Sat and was planning on changing the oil on Friday. What would be the benifit of going dino at this time?

[shemoves]

Originally Posted by Autopilot747

Well the car is only a weekend driver. It sees about 150 miles per week max. I asume that there is no difference on the hot side between a 10w40 and a 5w40?? I was thinking about getting the Amsoil European Formula 5w40

Also, at what mileage did you tune your car??

I tuned it around 8k miles IIRC, per my tuner's recommendations. Hmm, being that you don't drive it much, a 5w40 might work well. I think a 5w40 is going to be a bit thinner all around than a 10w40, but nonetheless, still in the '40 range' when warm. I know different brands also matter. For example, German Castrol and Redline tend to be on the thick side of there displayed weights, whereas mobil 1 synth tends to be on the thin side (very thin actually).

Alright, here is my updated suggestion...do everything as I said before, but instead of switching to 10w40 synth, go 5w40. Definitely do that 3k mile OCI after that to see if you should bump it up.

Another thing, during this whole process check your oil every 2nd or third time you drive the car...be on it.

Last but not least, don't get over-worried about it. While your motor may operate best at 5w40, running something a bit off that while you are figuring out what it likes (and keeping a close eye on everything) shouldn't do major damage. There are people on the boards that have been running everything from 5w30 to 20w50 for a long time in there subes, and all seem to be doing well.

[shemoves]

Originally Posted by Autopilot747

Im already running a regular 5w30, is it ok to run the dino oil now that the motor already has 3k on it?? also, Im getting dyno tuned this Sat and was planning on changing the oil on Friday. What would be the benifit of going dino at this time?

My personal opinion would be to reschedule your tune (unless the car is running like crap). You say you are running a regular 5w30...what is 'regular?' Optimal, IMO, would be to run dino oil for 8-10k miles, but a UOA (used oil analysis) would give you a much better idea of this.

Tell me this...are you dead-set on tuning this saturday? Also, tell me about the oil that is currently in the car. Brand, weight, synth or dino, miles on it...

[Autopilot747]

Originally Posted by shemoves

My personal opinion would be to reschedule your tune (unless the car is running like crap). You say you are running a regular 5w30...what is 'regular?' Optimal, IMO, would be to run dino oil for 8-10k miles, but a UOA (used oil analysis) would give you a much better idea of this.

Tell me this...are you dead-set on tuning this saturday? Also, tell me about the oil that is currently in the car. Brand, weight, synth or dino, miles on it...

My car was running great at 1k into the new engine, now it seems to lak a bit. IMO it also has a pretty rich base map on it now and i would like to get it tuned asap. From previous expierence, I know that getting a subie tuned asap it the way to go.

Current oil is castrol gtx 5w30. My engine builder said that it was not nesasary to run a mineral oil for break in, maybe im confused on what dino oil is??. In his personal opinion he thinks that it's not nesasary to run synthetic either.

[Autopilot747]

oh wait, dino=dinosaur oil , I feel stupid!

[cdigerlando]

Originally Posted by Autopilot747

Just seems like the things on fire every time I open the hood

That could just mean the nice big aftermarket radiator you listed is getting the heat out, you run the car hard, and its a hot day. The only way to really know is to check the internal temp.

[SaabTuner]

All I know is that every car I've ever used exclusively AMSOIL series 2000 0w-30 in has had bearings, cylinders, piston skirts, and camshafts that look either brand new, or very close to it.

I also know that we've never blown an engine in the Formula Ford with over a decade of AMSOIL usage.

It may not be scientific, but it IS pragmatic: the stuff works extremely well, whether or not something else might work slightly better.

[06grayrex]

^^^^+100000

[silver-duck]

I have 20-50 racing. amsoil in my 06 stage 3 wrx==it will do NO damage on startup; but it will save your motor during hard use or high heat. I have seen this oil at 375F in my LEGEND race car with no damage to motor. I have used amsoil for 27 years in conditions that no subi could come close to.[5-30 in winter