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Old 08-02-2007, 09:30 AM   #1
Altaic
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Member#: 31098
Join Date: Dec 2002
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Default Wiring: 06 STi -> '05 WRX Wagon

I'm in the process of swapping in an '06 STi engine and drivetrain, and I've spent a couple days figuring out the wiring from the FSMs. Instead of swapping the bulkhead harness, I'd like to make a conversion harness (details on this are at the bottom of this post). I've got a lot of the stuff figured out, however there are a few bits that are troubling:
  1. Cruise Control: The new ECM handles cruise control, while my old one has a cruise control module and actuator. This isn't a huge problem, but it appears the clutch switch and brake switch are wired up slightly differently.
  2. DCCD: My old bulkhead harness doesn't support this, so I'll have to wire it all in. The gauge cluster (aka "Combination Meter") also doesn't support it. I'm hoping I can just leave the gauge cluster portion unhooked. Otherwise I'll have to swap the clusters, which is a pain and is kind of expensive.
  3. Immobilizer Control Module: '05 WRXs don't have one. I don't know if I can just leave it out, but I'm thinking probably no.
  4. Acceleration Pedal Position Sensor: I have one on order, however I don't know if my old bulkhead harness has the B315 connector. Both the naturally aspirated and STi harnesses have it, so it might be wired up and left disconnected. I couldn't find it from a quick look under the dash. Can anyone confirm if it's there or not?
  5. Electronic Throttle Control Relay: Same deal as the B315; I don't know if I have the B309 connector, so I may have to wire that in.
  6. Joint Connector: I believe this is just a ground block. My car doesn't have it, and it may be necessary.

The good stuff:
  1. The F60/E3 connectors are plug and play, no modification needed.
  2. With converting the pins at the ECM connectors, it appears the F61/E2 connectors will also plug right up. The caveat is the the AVCS uses pins 1-4 on F61/E2, which aren't shown in the '05 WRX wiring diagrams. However, I looked at the back of the F61 connector and there are most definitely wires there which have colors that correspond to the STi connector pinout. Hmm...
  3. The B20/E1 connectors may be plug and play with the ECM connector conversion. I'm not as worried about this since I can just run part of the STi bulkhead harness directly to mate up with E1.

And here are my specific notes (abbreviated ):


Code:
'06 STi ECM	'05 WRX ECM		Description
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
============================= STRAIGHT CONVERSION =============================
B134-2/3	B84-4/5			Front Oxygen (A/F) Sensor 
B134-6/7	B84-8/9			GE-1 
B134-8		B136-5			Tumble Generator Valve RH 
B134-9		B136-4			Tumble Generator Valve RH 
B134-10		B136-11			Tumble Generator Valve LH 
B134-11		B136-10			Tumble Generator Valve LH 
B134-12		B84-22			Pressure Solenoid Valve 
B134-13		B84-11			Drain Valve
B134-14		B84-16			Purge Control Solenoid Valve
B134-15		B94-1			Combination Meter Cruise Indicator Light
B134-16		B94-3			Combination Meter Set Indicator Light
B134-17		B84-15			Combination Meter Malfunction Indicator Light
B134-24		B84-23			Fuel Tank Sensor Control Valve
B134-26		B84-19			Front Oxygen (A/F) Sensor 
B134-32		B84-24			Wastegate Solenoid 
B134-33		B84-29			Front Oxygen (A/F) Sensor 
B135-1/4	B134-22/B137-17		GE-1 
B135-2		B137-13			Rear Oxygen Sensor 
B135-12		B137-18			GE-1
B135-15		B137-21			Ignition Coil 4
B135-16		B137-22			Ignition Coil 3
B135-17		B137-23			Ignition Coil 2
B135-18		B137-24			Ignition Coil 1
B135-22		B135-11			Crankshaft Position Sensor
B135-24		B84-28			Main Fan Relay-2 / Sub Fan Relay-2
B135-25		B84-17			Main Fan Relay-1 / Sub Fan Relay-1
B135-27		B137-15			Fuel Pump Control Module
B135-33		B84-27			A/C Relay
B136-3		B137-4			Fuel Injector 4
B136-4		B137-5			Fuel Injector 3
B136-5		B137-6			Fuel Injector 2
B136-6		B84-1			Fuel Injector 1
B136-7		B94-15			Cruise Control Switch
B136-8		B94-20			Stop Light and Brake Switch
B136-10		B94-9			Cruise Control Switch
B136-11		B94-10			Cruise Control Switch
B136-12		B135-6			Fuel Pump Assembly: Fuel Temperature Sensor
B136-13		B135-27			Mass Air Flow Sensor
B136-14		B135-18			Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor and Thermometer
B136-16		B135-9			ALL SORTS OF CRAP
B136-18		B135-7			Electronic Throttle Control
B136-20		B135-25			Fuel Sub Level Sensor / Combination Meter
B136-21		B135-15			Fuel Tank Pressure Sensor
B136-22		B135-8			Pressure Sensor
B136-23		B136-13			Mass Air Flow Sensor
B136-26		B135-13			Tumble Generator Valve Angle Sensor LH
B136-27		B135-23			Tumble Generator Valve Angle Sensor RH
B136-29		B137-10			Electronic Throttle Control
B136-31		B136-7			Mass Air Flow Sensor
B137-1/2	B134-7/15/B136-1	GE-1
B137-7		B137-8			GE-1
B137-8		B134-16			Starter Motor / Starter Interlock Relay
B137-11		B134-3			Body Integrated Module
B137-12		B134-17			Lighting Switch
B137-13		B134-9			Auto A/C Control Module / Blower Motor Relay
B137-14		B134-5			Fuel Pump Relay / Ignition Coils
B137-17		B134-2			Auto A/C Control Module
B137-24		B137-2			PCV Diagnosis Connector
B137-25		B135-17			Rear Oxygen Sensor 
B137-28		B134-13			Fuel Pump Control Module
================================= NEW WIRING ==================================
B134-18		SEE NOTE		Active Valve Control Solenoid RH
B134-19		SEE NOTE		Active Valve Control Solenoid LH
B134-23					DCCD Control Module / Combination Meter
B134-28		SEE NOTE		Active Valve Control Solenoid RH
B134-29		SEE NOTE		Active Valve Control Solenoid LH
B136-15		SEE NOTE		Acceleration Pedal Position Sensor
B136-17		SEE NOTE		Acceleration Pedal Position Sensor
B136-28		SEE NOTE		Acceleration Pedal Position Sensor / DCCD Control Module
B136-34		SEE NOTE		Acceleration Pedal Position Sensor
B137-20					Data Link Connector / DCCD Control Module
================================ QUESTIONABLE =================================
B137-15					Data Link Connector
B137-29					Data Link Connector
========================= PROBLEMATIC: CRUISE CONTROL =========================
B134-1		B94-11			Cruise Clutch Switch
B136-9		B94-16			Stop Light and Brake Switch
======================= PROBLEMATIC: COMBINATION METER ========================
B135-26		B134-1			Combination Meter / Vehicle Speed Sensor / Body Integrated Module
===================== ABSENT: IMMOBILIZER CONTROL MODULE ======================
B137-19					Immobilizer Control Module
B137-27					Immobilizer Control Module

*** NOTE: CRUISE CONTROL
- may need to modify wiring, see C/C(ST)-01 and C/C(TB)-01

*** THESE SHOULD BE RUN DIRECTLY: STI ECM <-> B20/E1
B135-8					Active Valve Control Angle Sensor LH
B135-9					Active Valve Control Angle Sensor RH
B135-10					Crankshaft Position Sensor
B135-31					Crankshaft Position Sensor Shield
B136-25					Knock Sensor
B136-33					Knock Sensor Shield

*** THESE SHOULD BE RUN DIRECTLY: STI ECM <-> B317/E56
B137-3					GE-1
B137-4					Electronic Throttle Control
B137-5					Electronic Throttle Control

*** THESE SHOULD BE RUN DIRECTLY: STI ECM <-> B19/T5 ???


*** THESE SHOULD BE RUN DIRECTLY: STI ECM <-> B128/T9 ???
B137-?					Neutral Position Switch Ground?
B137-9					Neutral Position Switch	

*** B309 NOTE: ELECTRONIC THROTTLE CONTROL RELAY
- not sure if the '05 WRX has the B309 connector, but it's necessary
- rewiring the main relay may be necessary, see E/G(ST)-03 and E/G(TB)-03
- affected ECM pins:
B135-5/6	B84-2/3			ALL SORTS OF CRAP
B135-19		B84-10/[B309-2]		Main Power (MB-9 SBF-5 (B): Main Relay / Fuel Pump Relay / Data Link Connector / [Electronic Throttle Control Relay]
B135-35					Electronic Throttle Control Relay
B137-6					Electronic Throttle Control Relay
B137-16					Main Relay	

*** F60/E3 NEEDS NO MODIFICATION (YAY)

*** F61/E2 NEEDS NO MODIFICATION (MAYBE; CHECK THE FOLLOWING NOTES)

*** F61/E2 NOTE: Active Valve Control Solenoid
- pins 1, 2, 3, 4 on F61/E2 go to AVCS
- need to make sure those pins exist on the '05 WRX harness
- goes to pins 3, 4, 12, 13 respectively on B200/F74

*** F61/E2 NOTE: Electronic Throttle Control
- uses pins 12, 19, 20 of F61/E2
- F61-12 usually goes to Idle Air Control Solenoid Valve, hooked to the ECM B137-10
- F61-19 usually goes to Throttle Position Sensor, hooked to the ECM B135-7
- F61-20 usually goes to Throttle Position Sensor, hooked to the ECM B135-9
- make sure there is a shield on F61-19 all the way (see E/G(ST)-09)

*** B315 NOTE: Acceleration Pedal Position Sensor
- the '05 WRX wiring harness may not have connector B315
- make sure B315-1 is hooked up to B135-9 (on the '05 WRX ECM wiring)

*** B122 NOTE: Joint Connector
- it may not exist on the '05 WRX, but it's needed
If it gets any more complicated, I'd seriously consider swapping the entire bulkhead harness, but I'm not sure if it would mate up with the other harnesses (front, rear, door, etc.). Anyone know if it does, and how difficult it really is to swap (it looks like a nightmare)? Also, any info about the troubling bits would be greatly appreciated!

Cheers,
Altaic
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Old 08-02-2007, 02:58 PM   #2
takeshi999
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i would suggest swapping bulkhead harnesses, i hear the immobilizer is a pain in the ass to get working right...
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Old 08-02-2007, 05:33 PM   #3
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i too would suggest swapping the harness

do you have a key from the 06 for the imobilizer?
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Old 08-02-2007, 06:46 PM   #4
Altaic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaxx View Post
i too would suggest swapping the harness
I'll have to look into how the other harnesses and gauge cluster mate up. I see wiring diagrams when I close my eyes...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaxx View Post
do you have a key from the 06 for the imobilizer?
No, but the guy I bought all this stuff off of still has it. I'm just hoping he either still has the immobilizer or it's somewhere in that huge box of wiring. 'Cause, as I understand it, without that particular one, this new ECU is useless.
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Old 08-02-2007, 07:12 PM   #5
Altaic
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Ugh, there are 123 connectors on the '06 sti bulkhead harness.
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Old 08-02-2007, 09:17 PM   #6
Altaic
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Regarding the bulkhead harness swap, it looks like most of the '06 STi bulkhead connectors plug right up to the other '05 WRX harnesses. I believe the B100/F2 and B200/F74 need an adaptor, as does my gauge cluster unless I swap it with the STi one (probably a good idea anyway). I still have to check out the airbag system. I'll post my notes once I've checked out more of the connectors.

Can anyone comment on the difficulty of swapping the bulkhead harness? Basically have to disassemble the dash, correct? I don't need to strip the interior, do I?

Also, anyone know if the STi's HID system can be run with WRX standard non-HID lights? I don't really know much about HID lights, except that I don't like them...
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Old 08-05-2007, 06:15 AM   #7
Altaic
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Default Update

Here's the skinny. I've gone over every connector with the exception of the two Body Integrated Module ones, B280 and B281 (for another day). As far as I can tell there are only a few differences between the '05 WRX and '06 STi bulkhead harnesses:
  • DCCD and Immobilizer - This is stuff the '05 WRX does not have, so the new harness adds it in. Note that the Immobilizer is keyed to the ECM and is required.
  • HID/Headlight Leveling - The normal WRX headlights and the corresponding part of the front harness may just work with the new bulkhead harness. Otherwise, it shouldn't need much to adapt it.
  • Airbag System - Connector B31/AB1 has a different pinout. Swapping the airbag harness (and the Airbag Control Module) that has the AB1 connector may work, but then some of the connectors on that need to be adapted to work with the old stuff (AB3, AB4, and AB21). I think it's best to use the old Airbag Control Module and adapt B31/AB1.
  • Fuse Box - I noticed one difference in the pinout of the fuse box, although there may be more. I'll investigate further later.

Here are somewhat more extensive notes:

Code:
ECU AND BULKHEAD HARNESS SWAP ROUTE: '06 STI -> '05 WRX WAGON
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

D: APPEARS TO NOT EXIST ON THE OLD HARNESS
N: PLUGS RIGHT INTO THE NEW ENGINE AND TRANSMISSION HARNESSES AND ECM
P: PLUGS RIGHT INTO THE ORIGINAL HARNESS, NO MODIFICATION
T: TOTALLY DIFFERENT


BULKHEAD      CONNECTOR     D/N/P/T       NOTES         
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
B3                          P             Mass Airflow Sensor
B8                          P             Front Wiper Motor
B14                         P             Starter Motor
B15                         P             Front ABS Sensor RH
B17                         P             Vehicle Speed Sensor
B18                         P             Front Oxygen (A/F) Sensor
B19           T5            N             Rear Oxygen Sensor Cord
B20           E1            N             Engine Wiring Harness
B30           D1            P             Front Door Cord LH
B31           AB1           SEE NOTE 9    SRS Airbag Harness
B32                         P             Turn Signal & Hazard Module
B36           i1            SEE NOTE 4    Instrument Panel Wiring Harness
B37           i2            SEE NOTE 4    Instrument Panel Wiring Harness
B40                         P             Data Link Connector
B41                         P             Power Window Circuit Breaker
B46                         P             Fuel Pump Relay
B47                         P             Main Relay
B50                         P             Blower Fan Relay
B51                         SEE NOTE 2    Fuse & Relay Box (F/B)
B52                         P             Fuse & Relay Box (F/B)
B61           F44           SEE NOTE 1    Front Wiring Harness
B62           F45           P             Front Wiring Harness
B65                         P             Stop Light Switch
B68                         P             Steering Roll Connector
B69                         P             Parking Switch
B70                         P             Combination Switch (Wiper)
B71                         SEE NOTE 3    Combination Switch (Lighting)
B72                         P             Ignition Switch
B75           B76           P             Test Mode Connector
B76           B75           P             Test Mode Connector
B77                         P             Mode Actuator
B83                         SEE NOTE 6    Shield and Sensor Ground Joint Connector
B86                         SEE NOTE 7    Blower Fan Resistor
B87                         P             Blower Motor
B88                         SEE NOTE 7    Evaporation Thermo Switch
B90           R50           P             Roof Cord
B91                         P             Fresh/Recirc Actuator
B95                         SEE NOTE 8    Diode
B96                         P             Daytime Running Light Control Module
B97           R1            P             Rear Wiring Harness
B98           R2            P             Rear Wiring Harness
B99           R3            P             Rear Wiring Harness
B100          F2            SEE NOTE 5    Front Wiring Harness
B101          D11           P             Front Door Cord RH
B102                        P             Daytime Running Light Relay
B103                        P             High-Beam Relay
B106                        P             Clutch Switch
B107                        P             Clutch Switch (Cruise Control)
B108          F46           P             Front Wiring Harness
B112                        P             Diode (Front Fog Light)
B118                        P             CD Player Illumination Light
B119                        P             Front Accessory Power Supply Socket
B120                        P             Radio
B121                        P             Bracket Earth
B122                        D             Joint Connector
B125          B126          P             Line End Connector
B126          B125          P             Line End Connector
B127                        P             Wastegate Solenoid
B128          T9            N             Transmission Cord
B132                        D             Headlight Leveler Switch
B134                        N             ECM
B135                        N             ECM
B136                        N             ECM
B137                        N             ECM
B141                        D             Immobilizer Control Module
B142                        D             Antenna
B152                        SEE NOTE 2    Fuse & Relay Box (F/B)
B158                        SEE NOTE 2    Fuse & Relay Box (F/B)
B160                        P             Front Fog Light Switch
B168                        SEE NOTE 7    Mode Control Panel
B176                        T             Keyless entry Control Module
B177                        P             Wiper Deicer
B191                        P             Wiper Deicer Relay
B192                        P             Wiper Deicer Timer
B193                        P             Wiper Deicer Switch
B198                        D             Ground Joint Connector
B200          F74           SEE NOTE 10   Front Wiring Harness
B204                        P             Security Horn
B208                        P             Glove Box Illumination Light
B230                        D             Yaw Rate & Lateral G Sensor
B243                        P             Security Horn Relay
B256                        P             Evaporation Thermo Switch
B258                        D             DCCD Switch
B264                        T             Short Connector
B265          D27           P             Rear Door Cord RH
B267                        P             Front Door Switch LH
B268                        P             Front Door Switch RH
B269          D21           P             Rear Door Cord LH
B271                        SEE NOTE 2    Fuse & Relay Box (F/B)
B275                        P             Fan Control Amplifier
B280                        TODO          Body Integrated Module
B281                        TODO          Body Integrated Module
B282                        P             Auto A/C Control Module
B283                        P             Auto A/C Control Module
B286                        D             Intercooler Water Spray Timer
B288                        D             DCCD Relay
B292                        P             ABS G Sensor
B293                        P             Air Mix Actuator
B294                        D             Intercooler Water Spray Switch
B301                        P             ABS Control Module
B302                        P             ABS Motor Ground
B304                        P             ABS Condenser
B309                        D             Electronic Control Throttle Relay
B315                        D             Accelerator Position Sensor
B317          E56           N             Engine Wiring Harness
B335          B336          D             Joint Connector (Key Lock)
B336          B335          D             Joint Connector (Key Lock)
B339                        D             DCCD Auto/Manual Switch
B370                        P             Ignition Starter and Steering Lock Assembly
B371                        T             Relay Holder
B380                        D             DCCD Module
B381                        D             DCCD Module
B382                        D             Ground Joint Connector
B383                        D             Seat Heater Switch LH
B420                        D             HID Diode
B421                        D             CAN Joint Connector
B422                        D             Starter Cut Relay
B423                        D             Impact Sensor
B425                        D             A/F & Oxygen Sensor Relay
B426                        D             Steering Angle Sensor
B427          AB60          D             SRS Airbag Harness

AB3                         SEE NOTE 9    Airbag Control Module
AB4                         SEE NOTE 9    Airbag Module (Passenger Seat)
AB13          AB14          P             Airbag Wiring Harness
AB15                        P             Front Sub Sensor RH
AB21          AB26          SEE NOTE 9    Airbag Module (Driver's Seat)



NOTES
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

NOTE 1: Make sure pins 2, 6, and 8 go to MB-9 SBF-5 (B); see E/G(TB)-03 and
        E/G(ST)-03; see C/C(ST)-02 and C/C(TB)-02.

NOTE 2: Fuse box may need to be modified, see P-SUP-04 and P-SUP-05.

NOTE 3: Pin 17 appears to be used for HID lights on the STi, but on the WRX,
        it's used instead for fog lights.

NOTE 4: The WRX Combination Meter should be able to be adapted to be used with
        the STi harness, with the caveat that DCCD display will obviously not be
        present.

NOTE 5: The bulkhead to front harness probably needs to be modified for lights
        and engine.

NOTE 6: The STi uses more of this connector, but seeing how the connector is the
        same on the WRX, and all of the pins just connect to eachother, it
        probably needs no modification.

NOTE 7: This connector appears to be for the manual A/C models (neither the STi
        or WRX).

NOTE 8: The diode this connector corresponds to is 3-pin with the HID (STi), and
        2-pin with non-HID (WRX). We should probably use the STi one to go with
        the STi bulkhead harness.

NOTE 9: B31/AB1 is different on the '06 STi vs. '05 WRX. It looks like adapting
        the old airbag harness to the new bulkhead harness is the way to go.

NOTE 10: The B200/F74 connector on the new harness has 4 more pins... I'll have
         to get a new F74 connector and make an adaptor to the old F74 and
         run some wires additional from there to E2 (for AVCS, I think).

Last edited by Altaic; 08-05-2007 at 10:16 AM.
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Old 08-07-2007, 08:17 AM   #8
subychris94
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Subaru Stars sti conversion

i am doing an 04 sti conversion into a 2005 wrx wagon right now i swapped the bulk head harness it is alot easier than modifying the original harness and all of the systems will work like they did in the donor car the only harness that i did not swap was the fuel tank harness the only difference in the two is the rear diff temp sensor and it will just plug into the wrx connector and you dont have to remove the fuel tank now my swap is based on a complete teardown of a 2004 sti i kept every part the gas pedal will require an adapter bracket to be made they bolt up differently if you need one let me know of course i had to modify the harness to run the rear wiper on the wagon and i removed the airbag harness from the wrx harness and overlaid it to the sti harness the connectors are different between the two if you have any questions about my swap let me know i will be happy to help the swap will be done in the next two weeks
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Old 09-21-2007, 09:10 PM   #9
Altaic
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Update: The swap's done! I ended up replacing the bulkhead, front, and instrument cluster wiring harnesses with the '06 sti ones.

The only issues left are the rear windshield wiper/washer and driver/passenger airbags. The wiper/washer will have to be rigged up (run a few wires, no problem), and the airbags I have an idea: The problem is that the '06 sti uses dual-stage airbag deployment, which is 4 wires per unit. My '05 wrx has single-stage units with 2 wires. I should be able to cut the connector off the harness, put a 3 ohm resistor on the second stage, and stick the wrx connector on the first stage. The factory service manual seems to agree.

Otherwise, I'll have to take the airbag harness from the wrx and swap it into the sti harness, which I don't want to do, since I've already reassembled my interior.

Anyone with experience or information on airbags, please post! I'd really appreciate it.
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Old 09-24-2007, 05:18 AM   #10
Altaic
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Hmm, I can't find information in the FSM explaining if pins 1&2 or pins 3&4 on the airbag connectors correspond to the first deployment stage. I'd think 1&2 would be, however 3&4 go to the same pins on the airbag control module (pins 10&11, IIRC) as my old harness. The control module connectors are identical between the '05 wrx one and the '06 sti one, BTW. I'm guessing it's safe to mimic the '05 harness.
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Old 09-24-2007, 12:56 PM   #11
richy_21
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yea i need to find out if i can use the wrx bulkhead on the sti motor, not using the ecu.
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Old 09-24-2007, 05:45 PM   #12
Altaic
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Depends on the year wrx. 05 doesn't use throttle-by-wire, so that'd be a total pita. You also can't get individaul harness connectors, which means you have to get your hands on a harness anyway. Swapping the harness is the easiest way to go. I also had to chop a couple connectors from my old harness for the headlights, rear windshield washer, and to repair some damage the previous owner had done. Expect to use both harnesses for this swap.
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Old 09-24-2007, 06:47 PM   #13
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Well i have a 04. But im looking at the 06 wrx harness. But see im swapping manifolds w/ a jdm one. Since i have a aftermarket ecu.
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Old 09-24-2007, 07:12 PM   #14
Altaic
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Right on, good luck.

So no one knows about the airbag wiring (bump)?
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Old 03-06-2008, 11:47 PM   #15
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Very interesting
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Old 06-03-2008, 12:33 AM   #16
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How about 05 STi into 04 WRX? Any info? I have the complete engine, engine harness, and an 04 sti ecu with the 5 pins re-done... What else would you recommend?
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Old 06-03-2008, 06:40 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by srREXed View Post
How about 05 STi into 04 WRX? Any info? I have the complete engine, engine harness, and an 04 sti ecu with the 5 pins re-done... What else would you recommend?
Hi, which 5 pins, from and where?
can you make detailed explanation please?
Thanks
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Old 06-03-2008, 02:03 PM   #18
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If you would like that information, please visit my post: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1521617

It has the detailed pins and pin changes along with a link to ecu pinout diagrams.

Does anybody know what additional wiring would have to be done? How about removing fly-by-wire electronic tb and gas pedal. I dont want to use it and dont have an sti gas pedal...
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Old 05-02-2011, 11:48 AM   #19
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very old thread but I was about to ask the same question regarding the airbag wiring. I have read countless airbag threads and am still not fully aware of what I need in my 05 wagon with 07 sti interior harness swap (and instrument cluster) to get the airbag system working again.....please help if you know of any references.
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