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Old 08-04-2007, 06:12 PM   #26
Dyno Flash
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SubieFiesta View Post
lol gee how did i know you were gonna come up with something to say.

I have an old sheet of my car tuned on a dynojet with smoothing at 0 and it is no where near as WAVY as yours. the HP is wavy along with the TQ being wavy. And then theres the dip. geeeeeeee, is the HUGE DIP from the correction factor or maybe the smoothing being at 0. hmmm.
Please keep in mind that dyno jet makes several different models of dyno and they all do not have the same configuration. The one I am using now is the 424X with the newest firm ware and it is significantly different than the dyno jet I used in the past.

The dyno I am using now at ICS has a lot of sensistivity and on the 0 smoothing it has some bit of a choppy look to the graph, particulary on low whp cars. This may be due to the optical pick up which they are using to reference the crank position. I am not sure. I am going to try it on a Subaru using the inductive spark plug phook up and see how that effects it for curiosity.
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Last edited by Dyno Flash; 08-04-2007 at 09:14 PM.
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Old 08-04-2007, 06:19 PM   #27
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You guys are harsh.
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Old 08-04-2007, 06:26 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Dyno Flash View Post
Please keep in mind that dyno jet makes several different models of dyno and they all do not have the same configuration. The one I am using now is the 424X with the newest firm ware and it is significantly different than the dyno jet I used in the past.

The dyno I am using now at ICS has a lot of sensistivity and on the 0 smoothing it has some bit of a choppy look top the graph, particulary on low whp cars. This may be due to the optical pick up which they are using to reference the crank position. I am not sure. I am going to try it on a Subaru using the inductive spark plug phook up and see how that effects it for curiosity.

"BRO" you are so full of it. junior tuned on the same dyno and i can pull up some of his sheets and even his tunes did not look no where near wavy and crappy as that one, "sexy smooth" so again you are proven wrong. but as everyone on here is starting to learn, especially the ones getting retuned at other facilities, that the only thing good you have tuned in the subaru world would be your excuses and theories on the subaru forum.

o by the way. still waiting on your track times for your sti. im getting bored of your all talk drive around town videos of how fast your subaru is and please do not bring up your evo and try to change topic, for some reason you keep forgetting this is a subaru forum.
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Old 08-04-2007, 06:34 PM   #29
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honestly the wavy lines don't bug me too much... that's just a factor of smoothing and the smoothness of the drive train for the most part. Some very high hp cars can use a smoothness factor of 0 because the little variances you normally see are a much smaller percentage of the overall power and get hidden with high hp cars. With stage 2 power levels smoothness is usually appropriate around 3-4. The fun part is that as you raise the smoothing, the peak numbers actually go down a bit because you get rid of some of the sharp peaks.

Now as far as that dip around 3800-4800RPM, no one can really tell for sure what the cause of that is without seeing a log, but weather its boost or pulled timing, a dip is a dip is a dip. When you post a thread titled "Sexy Smooth" I don't expect to see a nice fat dip in the powerband .

BTW, I'm sure you know by now, but with the 07's you can't just look at the reported Learned Ignition to determine weather or not there is knock. In most cases the 07 ECU's don't pull timing out of the Learned Ignition, so you really have to analyze the total advance the ECU is running and compare it to your mapping to determine if knock is present. Just an FYI in case you were going strictly off the reported Learned Ignition values.

Thanks
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Old 08-04-2007, 06:46 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Vaus View Post
honestly the wavy lines don't bug me too much... that's just a factor of smoothing and the smoothness of the drive train for the most part. Some very high hp cars can use a smoothness factor of 0 because the little variances you normally see are a much smaller percentage of the overall power and get hidden with high hp cars. With stage 2 power levels smoothness is usually appropriate around 3-4. The fun part is that as you raise the smoothing, the peak numbers actually go down a bit because you get rid of some of the sharp peaks.

Now as far as that dip around 3800-4800RPM, no one can really tell for sure what the cause of that is without seeing a log, but weather its boost or pulled timing, a dip is a dip is a dip. When you post a thread titled "Sexy Smooth" I don't expect to see a nice fat dip in the powerband .

BTW, I'm sure you know by now, but with the 07's you can't just look at the reported Learned Ignition to determine weather or not there is knock. In most cases the 07 ECU's don't pull timing out of the Learned Ignition, so you really have to analyze the total advance the ECU is running and compare it to your mapping to determine if knock is present. Just an FYI in case you were going strictly off the reported Learned Ignition values.

Thanks
-- Ed

good info.

but....ed.....dont educate him. he will come up with some more of his theories
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Old 08-04-2007, 08:23 PM   #31
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Al i wanna thank you for the tune. the car feels very smooth,like stock, but with more pep... i ran it at the track today. and im happy with the #'s
note:it was around 90+degrees and very humid
R/T .193
60' 1.742
330 5.307
1/8 8.223
mph 84.68
1000 10.756
1/4 12.872
mph 107.54
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Old 08-04-2007, 09:24 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by KillaSti View Post
Al i wanna thank you for the tune. the car feels very smooth,like stock, but with more pep... i ran it at the track today. and im happy with the #'s
note:it was around 90+degrees and very humid
R/T .193
60' 1.742
330 5.307
1/8 8.223
mph 84.68
1000 10.756
1/4 12.872
mph 107.54
The numbers seem right in line with the dyno results and the fact that the drag racng power band is really beyond the breathing room of that small stock turbo. Its making the big TQ in the low end of the power band which you never see on a drag stip. I would like to see that car with a cold air intake and some TGV deletes.

For those interested in the calculation - assuming 3400 lbs with driver


Vehicle weight in pounds (including driver)
3400 lbs


107.00 Trap speed at end of 1/4 mi in m.p.h.
m.p.h.

You are making : 325 HP at the rear wheels and 384 HP at the flywheel*.
JavaScript must be enabled in your browser for the calculation to work.


*Note: Assuming a 18% drive train loss.

Calculate HP from ET
Vehicle weight in pounds (including driver)
lbs
12.87 ET in seconds
sec

You are making : 315 HP at the rear wheels and 372 HP at the flywheel*.
JavaScript must be enabled in your browser for the calculation to work.


Thanks for your business and I also appreciate the chance to work on such a clean and wonderful car. I have a soft spot for the '07 STI its really a amazing machine.

As for some of the members who are casting a negative spin on this thread . . . . sometimes I feel the pasion and joy for these fine machines is lost. I have been doing this since 2001 and honestly I am still as jazzed up about doing a Stage I STI as I was when I put my first MBC on my ole byg eye WRX in 2001. (Thanks to Jermaine at TX for helping to show me the first few steps).


I really wish everyone could work together in this dialouge with less bickering and negativity.

BTW - I am working on a really interesting car now - its a 05 STI with a HYDRA and Aquamist and a GT35. More on that later.

Thanks again

Al

Last edited by Dyno Flash; 08-04-2007 at 09:32 PM.
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Old 08-04-2007, 10:46 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by SuperSTI View Post
and who wins for best excuse of the year.......AL! YOU ARE OUR WINNER!
are you serious?!! do you even know what he's talking about?


as for the car...that is a hideous torque curve. I'm not even sure where I would shift that car...I'm guessing about 5200-5500...
racing like a diesel
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Old 08-05-2007, 12:02 AM   #34
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meh, Nasioc doesn't surprise me. to the untrained eye, you have atleast 3 tuner's who think that their **** doesn't stink and they're all the best there is.

It amazes me the fight for $$$ ................everyone is seeing it first hand.

Al, I don't know you or have bought any parts from you but I like it that you post some of the cars you tune. The same can't be said for the other's bashing you.

it is what it is and I think we should leave it alone and up to Al's customer.
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Old 08-05-2007, 12:17 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by modaddict View Post
meh, Nasioc doesn't surprise me. to the untrained eye, you have atleast 3 tuner's who think that their **** doesn't stink and they're all the best there is.

It amazes me the fight for $$$ ................everyone is seeing it first hand.

Al, I don't know you or have bought any parts from you but I like it that you post some of the cars you tune. The same can't be said for the other's bashing you.

it is what it is and I think we should leave it alone and up to Al's customer.
There is really no fight for $$$ at all. Most of the tuners here are spaced pretty far around the country and I personally don't compete with any of these guys. I just call it how I see it and try to provide unbiased information. Sorry, but when I see "Sexy Smooth" in the title, click, and see a fat dip in the torque curve I start laughing . Especially so when it comes from a tuner who tries his hardest to hype up his work. Notice the threads I've posted with some of my work... just a list of mods, octane, temperature, and a graph. No sexy this, smooth that... I let people decide for themselves.

Thanks
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Old 08-05-2007, 12:31 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Vaus View Post
There is really no fight for $$$ at all. Most of the tuners here are spaced pretty far around the country and I personally don't compete with any of these guys. I just call it how I see it and try to provide unbiased information. Sorry, but when I see "Sexy Smooth" in the title, click, and see a fat dip in the torque curve I start laughing . Especially so when it comes from a tuner who tries his hardest to hype up his work. Notice the threads I've posted with some of my work... just a list of mods, octane, temperature, and a graph. No sexy this, smooth that... I let people decide for themselves.

Thanks
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*I* appreciate you keeping your posts clean and informative. sometimes, this place will get to anyone with the amount of hate there is.

everyone is always number 1, sometimes.
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Old 08-05-2007, 12:39 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by modaddict View Post
everyone is always number 1, sometimes.
kinda like how rotaries run everytime 60% of the time
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Old 08-05-2007, 02:50 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by modaddict View Post
* sometimes, this place will get to anyone with the amount of hate there is.

everyone is always number 1, sometimes.
I concur that there is a lot of unpleasant dialouge that takes place, however, after so many years doing this I have grown a thick skin for negative comments

My goal is to share a body of data and dyno sheets combined with mods and tuning data - I have posted hundreds of similar case examples both on here and my web site.

I would add that I made a decision some time ago to foucs on discussing that I am doing and not trying to tear down what others are doing. I prefer to let the work speak for itself. In the past I also was guilty of this kind of negative posting but I found it to be a giant waste of time. As I said now I just like to show what I am working on and leave it at that.

Ironically, In the past two weeks here I have come across 5 Subarus of various kinds here for tunes which had pre-existing blown motors (most of them low compression on cyl #4) who were running tuning from other tuners. I am not on here bashing the other tuners. I simply diagnose the problems and move on. Life is too short to take time to press keys to attack others.

Al
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Old 08-05-2007, 03:23 AM   #39
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I'm sorry Al but after your visit to hawaii the guys you tuned and some of the others local guys here were not impressed with your service or skill. The silver evo you tuned dyno'ed after you left and the number it put out are so sad that I am not even going to post them. That that car can put out so much more power with his setup. Then you left the guy that setup for you to come out to hawaii with a half tuned car and then said that you didn't have the time to finish but you had the time to go out and video tape the men dressed like women working the streets downtown.
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Old 08-05-2007, 11:06 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by STiAlain View Post
I'm sorry Al but after your visit to hawaii the guys you tuned and some of the others local guys here were not impressed with your service or skill. The silver evo you tuned dyno'ed after you left and the number it put out are so sad that I am not even going to post them. That that car can put out so much more power with his setup. Then you left the guy that setup for you to come out to hawaii with a half tuned car and then said that you didn't have the time to finish but you had the time to go out and video tape the men dressed like women working the streets downtown.
I recall a silver Evo that had significant mechanical problems. First the intercooler hoses kept poping off and it had a significant oil leak. His appointment was for a 2 hour time slot and it ran signifciantly beyond that due to the repairs that needed to be done. I was only able to tune his car to 15 psi of boost or so before the intercooler pipes would pop off as he has the wrong clamps. There is no doubt that on race gas and or alhy that his car should have been able to make 500 whp with ease. However, it is hard to give him a tune like that when everytime I try and do a pul the fmic hose pops off. I am not blaming the customer for the condition as I am sure he did not plan for that to hapen and worked hard to have his car ready in time. It certainly was a very nice car. But with the fmic pipe popping off there was not much I could do. I put in the best tune under the circusmtances I could and had to go to meet another customer for a tuning appointment who had been patiently waiting. I ran at least an hour behind schedule trying to work with the car and the nice guys who had brought it down to try and get the problems sorted. I am sure the ultra conservative tune I left him with would not set any dyno records as the sole purpose was to provide him with a tune so he could safely drive his car around. I did the best I could for him in a difficult situation.

The car required some substantial reapirs to render it tuneable which could not have been effectuated in the time I was there in HI. This was especially the cas as the customer was deployed to SEA and his friends had brought his car to be tuned.

It is important for customers to get their cars fully operational and functional BEFORE a tuning appointment, this is particularly the case with turbo swaps and built motors. On of the advantages of working out of my local shop is that when things are not set up properly we can simply get to work to fabricate or repair what ever is needed to complete the job and when needed the customer can simply leave the car with us.

When I am doing remote tuning trips, I do not carry enough equipment to facilitate major reapirs and it falls upon the customer to make sure the car is tunable and working at the time of the appointment. I understand that often this is difficult as in many cases the car can not run for example on boost without a tune so it makes it at time very difficult to do a remote location tune on a highly modified car unless the car is wrenched and set up 100%.

No matter how often I set up check lists for what to do before you get tuned e.g.- pressurized boost leak test, compression test, change the plugs, etc etc etc. It seems that the message is not reaching some customers.

All I can tell you is that I am just as dissapointed and frustrated when I come to tune a car and I can not complete my job due to some mechanical problem or parts failure. This is especially the case after flying 12 hours to get there. I feel the customer's frustration as well.

As for the customer himself, you can let him know I will be happy to reschedule him for a free 2 hour tuning session when I return to HI sometime in late Sept / early Oct. Hopefully he has his set up well sorted now and we can give him the great tune he surely deserves.
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Old 08-05-2007, 11:35 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by STiAlain View Post
I'm sorry Al but after your visit to hawaii the guys you tuned and some of the others local guys here were not impressed with your service or skill. The silver evo you tuned dyno'ed after you left and the number it put out are so sad that I am not even going to post them. That that car can put out so much more power with his setup. Then you left the guy that setup for you to come out to hawaii with a half tuned car and then said that you didn't have the time to finish but you had the time to go out and video tape the men dressed like women working the streets downtown.
another +10000

i couldnt agree with you more. it will ALL come out in time. and as it has been said on this thread already. above me is his excuse on the matter.
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Old 08-05-2007, 12:03 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by SubieFiesta View Post
another +10000

i couldnt agree with you more. it will ALL come out in time. and as it has been said on this thread already. above me is his excuse on the matter.
Why do you hate Al so much? what did he do to/for you?
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Old 08-05-2007, 12:17 PM   #43
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Why do you hate Al so much? what did he do to/for you?
its not just me. there are a load of people and more growing especially on this forum. just look at this guy who just posted above about his hawaii trip. even tuners. just like vaus had said. he tries to make everyone believe he is the best. he downs other tuners and there tunes meanwhile all of his tunes are crap and his service is terrible but yet everything he does in his eyes is "the best, perfect, sexy smooth, etc.." or "i retuned this car that was tuned from someone else, my tune made 100000+ increase over theres" meanwhile you take the car out it runs like crap, doesnt make the power he claims etc... i was at the track with my car a while ago, i met up with a hand full of cars that were tuned by al and they ran like crap they were so disappointed they were going to another shop. they told me they had called al he said he was busy, the car runs rich cause thats how he tunes, etc.. i cant remember what he told them all but those were a couple of EXCUSES. i have sat back and watch his post for the last couple months and he is full of it i want to laught. example:
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Old 08-05-2007, 01:39 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by SubieFiesta View Post
its not just me. there are a load of people and more growing especially on this forum. just look at this guy who just posted above about his hawaii trip. even tuners. just like vaus had said. he tries to make everyone believe he is the best. he downs other tuners and there tunes meanwhile all of his tunes are crap and his service is terrible but yet everything he does in his eyes is "the best, perfect, sexy smooth, etc.." or "i retuned this car that was tuned from someone else, my tune made 100000+ increase over theres" meanwhile you take the car out it runs like crap, doesnt make the power he claims etc... i was at the track with my car a while ago, i met up with a hand full of cars that were tuned by al and they ran like crap they were so disappointed they were going to another shop. they told me they had called al he said he was busy, the car runs rich cause thats how he tunes, etc.. i cant remember what he told them all but those were a couple of EXCUSES. i have sat back and watch his post for the last couple months and he is full of it i want to laught. example:

It seems that in many cases internet forums are a place to attack people you may not care for for what ever reason and also try to destroy someone's reputation based upon hear say and gossip.

I am not on this thread "downing any other tuner" as you suggest.


As for customer service matters, those who live in the tri-state region can and should realize that I am working on a daily basis at www.ICSperformance.com. Monday - Friday 10 - 6 pm and by appointment at other hours and days. Anyone who I have tuned in the past who has any issues/concerns or problems of any kind is welcome to drive down any week day and we can throw the car directly on the dyno to quantify and verify any power problem or issue that the customer may have - AT NO CHARGE. If something I did needs adjustment and the customer has the same modfication set up on the car I will adjust the tune as needed again at no extra charge - FREE.


You illude to these customers with problems, yet my in box here has no such inquires, I have no emails from any customers with problems and I have not had any recent telephone contacts.

I stand behind my work 100% - if any customer has problems they should jsut come down or call me and I will do my best to get to the bottom of the situation and correct any tuning issues that exist.

I point out these two side notes

#1 - When I tune a car it is dyno tested carefully - ually for at least an hour and a half to two hours and then carefully road tested. Later, I ask all customers to go for a ride to see how they like the way the car is running. In most cases when something happens that changes the way the car is running after that it is usually a boost leak or other similar minor mechanical issue - I spend every day diagnosising and fixing these kind of minor problems.

#2 - I have recently changed my shop location where I tune out of. There was another tuner working in my new shop who I replaced. It seems that the fan boys, and groupies of the various offened parties are trying to ratchet up the internet BS in response.

Make no mistake, I have been tuning a lot of cars of al kinds for a very long time and I have a very good track record of both good running and reliable cars and satisfied customers to show for it. Sure, there will be some customers or competing shops who do not care for me or my personality this is the nature of any business.

It seems what diferentiates this business is the nasty manner in which people attack each other on the internet.

I choose not to attack others and engage in this tit for tat. That does not mean that I am weak, it just means that I choose to foucs on more productive ways to spend my time.

Thanks
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Old 08-05-2007, 01:59 PM   #45
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This thread is out of control... so much hate. If you want to say something about Al, do a write up in the reviews section or something. Taking shots at him in a public forum is pretty uncalled for, this is how he makes a living. Some of you obviously have issues with him, so why don't you call him up and reschedule a tune or try and see what's going on with your car instead of crying about it on a forum? You'd get a lot farther...
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Old 08-05-2007, 02:13 PM   #46
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This thread is out of control... so much hate. If you want to say something about Al, do a write up in the reviews section or something. Taking shots at him in a public forum is pretty uncalled for, this is how he makes a living. Some of you obviously have issues with him, so why don't you call him up and reschedule a tune or try and see what's going on with your car instead of crying about it on a forum? You'd get a lot farther...
+1 as i already have said im happy with my tune and how the car is running.. as far as customer service you cant get any better, i live 3 1/2 hours away from Al. and needed my car tuned no later than fri 8/3/07 due to a NOpi show i needed to attend. Al scheduled me in with no problem. i then ran into my own problem with my local shop. my Uppipe did not show up on time... what was i gonna do?(mind you that its late in the day around 4pm thursday) i call Al and let him know the situation, Al quickly gets on the phone with one of his vendors on the west coast and has my Uppipe delivered next day... the part showed up on time and was installed. all i have to say is Al and ICS are a group of good and profesional guys.. thanks again Al.
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Old 08-05-2007, 03:22 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by KillaSti View Post
+1 as i already have said im happy with my tune and how the car is running.. as far as customer service you cant get any better, i live 3 1/2 hours away from Al. and needed my car tuned no later than fri 8/3/07 due to a NOpi show i needed to attend. Al scheduled me in with no problem. i then ran into my own problem with my local shop. my Uppipe did not show up on time... what was i gonna do?(mind you that its late in the day around 4pm thursday) i call Al and let him know the situation, Al quickly gets on the phone with one of his vendors on the west coast and has my Uppipe delivered next day... the part showed up on time and was installed. all i have to say is Al and ICS are a group of good and profesional guys.. thanks again Al.
Thanks for your time and postive review, it means a lot to me.

I really enjoy what I do and I take a great deal of time and effort to assure that I do the best job I am capable of doing every time.

I stand behind what I do 100%. Incidenatlly, it should be mentioned that we have a 100% satisfaction policy and at the time of the tune if the customer is not satisfied with what we have done we either correct the situation to the customer's satisfaction or there is NO CHARGE. I do not expect anyone to pay for my services if they are not fully satisfied.

Thanks again for your time and efforts and I appologize to you for this drama surrounding this thread.
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Old 08-05-2007, 04:05 PM   #48
Jenr33vspec
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyno Flash View Post
If something I did needs adjustment and the customer has the same modfication set up on the car I will adjust the tune as needed again at no extra charge - FREE.


You illude to these customers with problems, yet my in box here has no such inquires, I have no emails from any customers with problems and I have not had any recent telephone contacts.

#2 - I have recently changed my shop location where I tune out of. There was another tuner working in my new shop who I replaced. It seems that the fan boys, and groupies of the various offened parties are trying to ratchet up the internet BS in response.

I choose not to attack others and engage in this tit for tat. That does not mean that I am weak, it just means that I choose to foucs on more productive ways to spend my time.

Thanks
You just don't learn when to shut your fat mouth do you Al... You didn't learn from the other thread where you were embarrassed by acting like you replaced someone. You didn't replace anyone, you are incapable of it. None of Junior's customers have posted in this thread and the only mention of him was that his tunes on the same dyno didn't look like junk the way yours do. Keep on bringing his name up and he will just keep getting more and more business from it and you will just keep setting yourself up for a bigger problem. Just like the last thread, Junior stays out of it and you look like an *******.

And logically speaking, you don't have anyone coming back for you to re-tune the cars you ****ed up because they bring it somewhere else. Why would anyone want you to mess around with their car after you already ****ed it up? You offer free service because the customer is obviously paying for what they get!

Give it a rest Al... it's too bad you don't have much work to keep you off the internet over there.

Last edited by Jenr33vspec; 08-05-2007 at 04:24 PM.
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Old 08-05-2007, 04:31 PM   #49
verc
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There's only ONE KIND OF PERSON who talks crap about tuners: people who don't know much in real life and spend all their time magazine racing.

It's so painfully obvious: if you hang out around tuners and shops and look at the drama that goes on, you realize that 40% of the bad crap talking comes from customers who it was their own damn fault, and another 40% comes from internet mag racers who propogate rumor and slander. Just think - if you can reference people who got screwed over by a tuner, chances are you read their story on NASIOC since we're all geographically dispersed. Chances are you are taking that heresay and accepting it. Maybe another 10% is just crazy people, and only 10% the tuner's fault - hey they make mistakes, but good tuners will always go back and correct their mistakes for free.

Now I'm not going to make judgement on the big Al thing, but his "excuse" on the EVO - that seems quite fair to me, and this happens ALL THE TIME. ALL THE TIME people go to tuners with WHACK SETUPS, expect the TUNER TO FIX EVERYTHING. Tuners are not miracle cures - they are simply another step in the chain from parts manufacturer to installation mechanic to tuner to driver. ALL have a responsibility in making the car run good - yet the TUNER ALWAYS TAKES THE BLAME.


Now again I don't know the facts, I don't know whose fault whatever is, but I'm just saying for reference in case some noob comes across and reads this thread looking for concrete information to base a decision on, that the vast majority of crap talking about shops and tuners is bullshi.t. talk
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Old 08-05-2007, 04:41 PM   #50
Jenr33vspec
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And it's even more bull**** when the tuner is talking crap about another tuner who is not even involved in this thread. Take your opinion off that.
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