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Old 08-06-2007, 12:12 PM   #1
ejh25
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Default AFR Target Tables

A few qs
(1) The autotune feature uses the AFR target table to make adjustments to fueling?
(2) Does the "Enable Closed Loop" also use the AFR target table? If yes, is it limited to how much it can compensate for?
(3) Can I use the figures in the AFR target table as a basis for my AFR targets when adjusting my fuel table?
Thanks,
Eric
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Old 08-06-2007, 12:34 PM   #2
jblaine
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1. Yes, if you tell it to use that for the L and R module sensor source.

2. Yes, if you tell it to use that for the L and R module sensor source. You MUST have Enable Closed Loop turned on for autotune to even work.

3. What?
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Old 08-06-2007, 12:54 PM   #3
ejh25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jblaine View Post
1. Yes, if you tell it to use that for the L and R module sensor source.

2. Yes, if you tell it to use that for the L and R module sensor source. You MUST have Enable Closed Loop turned on for autotune to even work.

3. What?
3. As in are the figures in the AFR tables good AFR targets to work towards when adjusting the fuel map?
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Old 08-06-2007, 01:02 PM   #4
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The answer to that really depends on the base map you have and how well it suits your setup/mods.
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Old 08-06-2007, 02:42 PM   #5
ejh25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jblaine View Post
The answer to that really depends on the base map you have and how well it suits your setup/mods.
Well the base map (everything but fuel) was put together for my car when it had 800cc injectors. When the motor was rebuilt I decided to go with 1000cc injectors and Phil put in a base fuel map for 1000cc injectors that he had with my turbo on his car.

The WB02 was initially thought to be malfunctioning because everything was reading pig rich. My EGT failed around the same time so when Phil went to put a road tune on the car we couldn't really be certain that the car was actually running as rich as it was showing. Phil took my WB02 and confirmed that it was reading properly. I checked the WB02 wiring and confirmed that everything was as it should be.

Hopefully Phil will have a chance to tune the car on Friday, but I'm just trying to pull out a bunch of fuel as the car was initially running as rich as 7.9:1 in some areas. Most areas are leaner than 10.5 now but there are a few in the mid 9s and I am just trying to make the car driveable under boost until Phil has a chance to do some fine tuning.

Any advice is appreciated.

Thanks,
Eric
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Old 08-06-2007, 02:49 PM   #6
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Gotcha.

I'd be pretty confident in the AFR Target map Phil provided for you. Just take a look and it should be clear if it makes sense or not.

Roughly 14:1 to 3psi
Roughly 13:1 to 7psi
Roughly 12:1 to 10psi
Roughly 11:1 above 10psi for a rough stab at it

Anywhere around that should be safe to use with Autotune before Friday.
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Old 08-06-2007, 03:02 PM   #7
ejh25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jblaine View Post
Gotcha.

I'd be pretty confident in the AFR Target map Phil provided for you. Just take a look and it should be clear if it makes sense or not.

Roughly 14:1 to 3psi
Roughly 13:1 to 7psi
Roughly 12:1 to 10psi
Roughly 11:1 above 10psi for a rough stab at it

Anywhere around that should be safe to use with Autotune before Friday.
Well, I haven't been using the Auto tune so far...just logging and pulling fuel in certain areas while trying to smooth everything out.

Just so I understand completely as to how to use the AutoTune. You enable "AutoTune" then drive around and do some pulls in the areas you want to work in. Then hit enter in the "Closed Loop" card and that will make the Auto Tune changes to the fuel map?
Then to save those changes I use the standard map change sequence (as in turning the car off for 10-15 seconds)?
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Old 08-06-2007, 03:27 PM   #8
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Enable closed loop.
Enable autotune.
Set your RPM range (CL) to reflect the area you want to tune.
Set the sensor source(s) to Wideband Target Table
Configure the Autotune Rate map and use values of 24 or so.
Download the map to ECU.
Turn off ignition.
Wait 10 seconds.
Turn ignition to ON.
Upload from ECU.
Select Maps.
Now drive around then eventually pull over and LEAVE CAR ON.
Exit the "map" window and "Upload from ECU" -- this drags the ECU's autotune adjustments onto your laptop.
SAVE the map now.
Smooth things out, etc...
SAVE when done.
Download to ECU.
Power off car, wait 10 seconds, upload from ECU.

Wash, rinse, repeat.
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Old 08-06-2007, 03:47 PM   #9
ejh25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jblaine View Post
Enable closed loop.
Enable autotune.
Set your RPM range (CL) to reflect the area you want to tune.
Set the sensor source(s) to Wideband Target Table
Configure the Autotune Rate map and use values of 24 or so.
Download the map to ECU.
Turn off ignition.
Wait 10 seconds.
Turn ignition to ON.
Upload from ECU.
Select Maps.
Now drive around then eventually pull over and LEAVE CAR ON.
Exit the "map" window and "Upload from ECU" -- this drags the ECU's autotune adjustments onto your laptop.
SAVE the map now.
Smooth things out, etc...
SAVE when done.
Download to ECU.
Power off car, wait 10 seconds, upload from ECU.

Wash, rinse, repeat.
Thanks!
Do you typically use the Auto Tune?
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Old 08-06-2007, 05:22 PM   #10
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This is "closed loop" with a target of 14.7 everywhere before the closed loop cutoff in the 2D map:

Closed Loop +
DRQ +
Autotune -
WB UEGO +
WB Target Table -

This is "closed loop" fueling using the AFR target table as the target, no 2D cutoff map.

Closed Loop +
DRQ -
Autotune -
WB UEGO -
WB Target Table +

This is Autotune and it only works with the laptop attached, and it requires an upload and download to save the changes:

Closed Loop +
DRQ -
Autotune +
WB UEGO -
WB Target Table +

Hope that helps. I'm not sure what DRQ does, but I always check it when CL to 14.7 which is how I normally run. Many run with CL-WB target.
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Old 08-06-2007, 06:15 PM   #11
jblaine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ejh25 View Post
Thanks!
Do you typically use the Auto Tune?
Nope, not since I finalized my fuel map many months ago.

I do use CL though, with WB02 as the source, up to 3200RPM.
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Old 08-06-2007, 11:19 PM   #12
ejh25
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Well, all I can say is that I've pulled a bunch of fuel and am now no longer hitting 9s in any spot and almost everything is in the mid 10s over 10psi. I know it can go leaner and I will do it a little but WOW the car is fast. I added a little more boost through the E-Boost 2 and am hitting close to 18 or 19psi in third gear. I haven't even hit the map switch on the hydramist yet.
The external gate is getting kind of annoying at this point although it is pretty cool initially.

Anyways thanks for the tuning tips. All I'm trying to do is get it within the right ballpark so I can have fun with it until Phil tunes it (which I think might be Thursday at this point).

I will keep everyone updated..as this thing should push the 30psi envelope on race fuel as well as easily clear the 500ft/lb wtq mark.

- Eric
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Old 08-07-2007, 10:35 AM   #13
SloRice
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So if you do the autotune with the AFR map, will you physically see the numbers in the fuel map changing?? I tried to do this with my car and I didn't see the numbers change.
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Old 08-07-2007, 12:20 PM   #14
RemlapaN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SloRice View Post
So if you do the autotune with the AFR map, will you physically see the numbers in the fuel map changing?? I tried to do this with my car and I didn't see the numbers change.
You will not see the numbers changing in real time. To see the changes, you need to re-upload the map from the ECU to your computer, then you can see the changes that the ECU has made.
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Old 08-07-2007, 01:10 PM   #15
SloRice
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Well, that's good to know!
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