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Old 08-08-2007, 12:33 AM   #1
Dyno Flash
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Default '07 STI - SPT Cat Back only with Ecutek Tune vs stock

Here is another car which I really enjoed road tuning after the dyno session - what a real smooth and great running car the '07 STI is - hard to imagine that this is the last of the great WRX 4 doors

I put two arrows on the sheet to highlight here the car was having a delay switching to open loop operation with the stock map and you can see the coreponding roughness in the stock tune due to the ultra lean a/f which the delay period causes.

With my tune, I accelerate the transition to open loop and I also smooth out the timing map and work the avcs to get a lot more low end power.

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Old 08-08-2007, 01:24 AM   #2
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That looks better than the previous car Al. Just curious, why do you start your pulls past 3k RPM? I understand doing this with a big turbo car but the stock turbo hits full boost right around 3k RPM so don't you want to showcase the spool characteristics of your tune as well? There's also still a bit of "roughness" as you call it present in your tune in the 3500-4k RPM region. I find this area to be a bit tricky to smooth out with the 07's as well. I believe this has to do with the higher compression and generally takes a some AVCS and ignition advance work to smooth out nicely and alleviate any knock.

BTW, how much boost are you running on this car?

Thanks
-- Ed
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Old 08-08-2007, 09:18 AM   #3
akira02rex
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Originally Posted by fast_lgt View Post
Another al tuned car with ANOTHER DIP.

-no comment-
While it is pretty funny, it also isn't very nice.
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Old 08-08-2007, 09:41 AM   #4
SubieFiesta
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Originally Posted by UM-WRXer View Post
dude thats totally not nessesary...the peanut gallery has to stop.

Atleast Al is trying to change his ways and become a better community contributer. All youre doing is ruining what can be a good thread.

I look forward in seeing how Al and Ed can have a contructive conversation about tuning the 07 sti. To me thats what NASIOC is about.....

Peanut Gallery? People are commenting on the vehicle that he has tuned and the issue they see with it. What? No one can give there opinion on why the tune has an issue yet again?

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Originally Posted by akira02rex View Post
While it is pretty funny, it also isn't very nice.
It is pretty funny. Especially since again, only a day later and another car has the same dip. I dont think it has to do with anything to do with bashing or being very nice. It common sense.
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Old 08-08-2007, 10:02 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Vaus View Post
That looks better than the previous car Al. Just curious, why do you start your pulls past 3k RPM? I understand doing this with a big turbo car but the stock turbo hits full boost right around 3k RPM so don't you want to showcase the spool characteristics of your tune as well? There's also still a bit of "roughness" as you call it present in your tune in the 3500-4k RPM region. I find this area to be a bit tricky to smooth out with the 07's as well. I believe this has to do with the higher compression and generally takes a some AVCS and ignition advance work to smooth out nicely and alleviate any knock.

BTW, how much boost are you running on this car?

Thanks
-- Ed
The SPT catback sucks for starters, it's almost up there with the infamous fujitsobo junk. Tuning aggressively on the AVCS on the 07 doesn't work in the cars favor since the ignition advance is so dynamic, this car is just too damn smart. Not sure how other tuners are doing it, but I run about 5* less overall AVCS then in previous model years. I've read some guys are running a total af 45* in some areas, which I have not found to be optimal in my situations, and I've tried tuning AVCS on the 07's for over 8 hours. On race fuel, I've seen some significant improvements adding cam advance after peak torque to help the torque curve carry out, but that's about it.

Ed, got any other insight on this?

As for the closed loop delay, that's nothing new and is even more evident why the 07's need to be tuned when you start to throw after market parts on them.

- Chris
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Old 08-08-2007, 10:11 AM   #6
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Is Al working at ICS now? What the hell goes on around here?
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Old 08-08-2007, 10:12 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by XX_Chris View Post
The SPT catback sucks for starters, it's almost up there with the infamous fujitsobo junk. Tuning aggressively on the AVCS on the 07 doesn't work in the cars favor since the ignition advance is so dynamic, this car is just too damn smart. Not sure how other tuners are doing it, but I run about 5* less overall AVCS then in previous model years. I've read some guys are running a total af 45* in some areas, which I have not found to be optimal in my situations, and I've tried tuning AVCS on the 07's for over 8 hours. On race fuel, I've seen some significant improvements adding cam advance after peak torque to help the torque curve carry out, but that's about it.

Ed, got any other insight on this?

- Chris

I appreciate your comments with regard to the '07 which is without a doubt one of the most difficult to master stock ecus I have ever had to wrap my head about.

Of course - aside from the obvious power delivery tuning the stock ROM has several rough spots and a significant hesitation between shifts all of which took me a lot of time to resolve.

I agree with you in that the key to a good result with an 07 is to work with the ultra senstive knock reaction of the stock ECU and map the ecu in a way to minimize any knock events. I have found that the best way to get a good result is with very conservative tuning.


I also agree on the SPT cat back - our ICS SHOP STI was making virtually the same power with a 100% stock exhuast. This customer's objective was to try and get some more power and stay as warranty friendly as possibel.

Al
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Old 08-08-2007, 10:22 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaus View Post
That looks better than the previous car Al. Just curious, why do you start your pulls past 3k RPM? I understand doing this with a big turbo car but the stock turbo hits full boost right around 3k RPM so don't you want to showcase the spool characteristics of your tune as well? There's also still a bit of "roughness" as you call it present in your tune in the 3500-4k RPM region. I find this area to be a bit tricky to smooth out with the 07's as well. I believe this has to do with the higher compression and generally takes a some AVCS and ignition advance work to smooth out nicely and alleviate any knock.

BTW, how much boost are you running on this car?

Thanks
-- Ed

Ed - I look for and alieviate knock with my data logs and by watching what the ecu and sesnors are recording.

No car leaves my hands unless the data logs both on the dyno and also in a subsequent road test show a total absense of knock reponse in the ecu and also unless the car is mapped with zero knock what so ever.


The main thrust of the DYNO comparision (as specifically opposed to a dyno like simulation software) is to show a A - B comparision between the initial factory tune and the post tuning Ecutek tune which I did

I do the runs the same way before - RUN A and the same way at the end RUN B - then you can see how the car responded to the tuning and quantify any gains or losses which have occured as a direct result of the tuning.

I will point out that in most cases this kind of tuning gives a huge advantage to the stock tune for several reasons

1 - In most cases when the car come sin with the stock tune the advance multiplier is all the way as high as its going with the fuel in the car

2 - When the car comes in the tmic is usualy cool or at least not heat soaked.

3 - By the time I do 15 or so dyno pulls tuning the car the tmic is usually very heat soaked and also the engine itself is usually very hot.

Despite these factors it is clear that the tuning makes significant gains in power throught the power band.

In addition - the stock rom hesitation issues and inter shift hesitation are all totally resolved.

Al
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Old 08-08-2007, 10:24 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GetSideways View Post
Is Al working at ICS now? What the hell goes on around here?
Specifically, speaking from my own perspective, I got a chance to work in the regions largest and best equiped tuning center.

From my customer's perpective, I am working in a large facility that can handle everything from wheel and tire mounting, balancing, computer alignment and welding and fabrication all under one roof.
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Old 08-08-2007, 10:42 AM   #10
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lol heard you got fired
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Old 08-08-2007, 10:51 AM   #11
GetSideways
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyno Flash View Post
Specifically, speaking from my own perspective, I got a chance to work in the regions largest and best equiped tuning center.

From my customer's perpective, I am working in a large facility that can handle everything from wheel and tire mounting, balancing, computer alignment and welding and fabrication all under one roof.
I recently saw their new garage around the block. High HP turbo bimmers always put a big smile on my face.
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Old 08-08-2007, 10:59 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyno Flash View Post
Specifically, speaking from my own perspective, I got a chance to work in the regions largest and best equiped tuning center.
You tuned at XX? Didn't know that.
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Old 08-08-2007, 11:02 AM   #13
GetSideways
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Originally Posted by XX Tuning View Post
You tuned at XX? Didn't know that.
Ha ha....

I always thought there was a bit of a friendly rivalry between Al and George.

Where is Junior now, I heard he opened a shop in NJ? Any truth to this?
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Old 08-08-2007, 11:54 AM   #14
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lol heard you got fired
Please keep this thread on topic. If you have personal questions for Al, please PM him.
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Old 08-08-2007, 12:24 PM   #15
Dyno Flash
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Originally Posted by XX Tuning View Post
You tuned at XX? Didn't know that.
XX is over 80 miles from my facility at ICS

By Region, I mean Fairfield County and the NY metro area

with over 13,000 square feet - 13 lifts - two alignment racks and a seperate dyno cell with its own lift - I think ICS Performance has more than enough resources to tackle any service needs that my customers may have

AL
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Old 08-08-2007, 12:26 PM   #16
Dyno Flash
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Originally Posted by TurboDXsti View Post
lol heard you got fired
When you work for yorself as I do its hard to fire yourself - although I may get mad enough one day to do that

Actually, I left my old facility on good terms - I have nothing bad to say abot them what so ever - I just found a facility closer to my home (within a mile) which better suited my needs so I decided to take my dyno leasing needs there

There is no need for all this drama and nonsense

Thanks
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Old 08-08-2007, 12:41 PM   #17
ChrisSK
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Originally Posted by Dyno Flash View Post
XX is over 80 miles from my facility at ICS

By Region, I mean Fairfield County and the NY metro area

with over 13,000 square feet - 13 lifts - two alignment racks and a seperate dyno cell with its own lift - I think ICS Performance has more than enough resources to tackle any service needs that my customers may have

AL
Understood, but your not the biggest in the region.
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Old 08-08-2007, 12:49 PM   #18
foxboroxt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyno Flash View Post
I appreciate your comments with regard to the '07 which is without a doubt one of the most difficult to master stock ecus I have ever had to wrap my head about.

Of course - aside from the obvious power delivery tuning the stock ROM has several rough spots and a significant hesitation between shifts all of which took me a lot of time to resolve.

I agree with you in that the key to a good result with an 07 is to work with the ultra senstive knock reaction of the stock ECU and map the ecu in a way to minimize any knock events. I have found that the best way to get a good result is with very conservative tuning.


I also agree on the SPT cat back - our ICS SHOP STI was making virtually the same power with a 100% stock exhuast. This customer's objective was to try and get some more power and stay as warranty friendly as possibel.

Al
I didn't think catbacks had all that much potential as power mod. How much power would a car (lets say stock STI) be giving up by going with an SPT over another, better catback (which would be....)? I'm guessing the problem is a restricive muffler?
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Old 08-08-2007, 01:14 PM   #19
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Understood, but your not the biggest in the region.
I sincerely hope that we do not need to get into a my penis is bigger than yours type contest

If need be we can get out a tape measure and calculate the size of every shop you wish to compare

Honestly, I have more important ways to spend my time than arguing
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Old 08-08-2007, 01:18 PM   #20
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Please keep this thread on topic. If you have personal questions for Al, please PM him.
So much for being 100% less gay
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Old 08-08-2007, 01:25 PM   #21
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What about the spt intake? is it difficult to tune around that and a catback? my car runs like **** with the intake, but after the factory flash, the car runs fine with the stock box and 3" catback.. ap or al??
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Old 08-08-2007, 01:25 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Dyno Flash View Post
I sincerely hope that we do not need to get into a my penis is bigger than yours type contest

If need be we can get out a tape measure and calculate the size of every shop you wish to compare

Honestly, I have more important ways to spend my time than arguing
Absolutely no need to get into an argument with you, you made a statement, I corrected you, that's it. If you did get a tape measure out though, you would realize that XX is nearly 30,000 sq/ft.. Who provides the better service is up to the customer, not us.

Thanks,

Chris
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Old 08-08-2007, 01:27 PM   #23
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Please - all this OFF TOPIC bickering MUST STOP

If you are not discusing a technical aspect related to ecutek - tuning - the dyno sheet or car please just refrain from posting it and stay out

This is a tech section not a soap opera forum

AL
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Old 08-08-2007, 01:28 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by XX Tuning View Post
Absolutely no need to get into an argument with you, you made a statement, I corrected you, that's it. If you did get a tape measure out though, you would realize that XX is nearly 30,000 sq/ft.. Who provides the better service is up to the customer, not us.

Thanks,

Chris
And again as I suggested you guys are over 80 miles from us and not what I consider in my region

AL
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Old 08-08-2007, 01:30 PM   #25
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al, how much boost on the stock dp'd car? i hate 2L, mine made 290 ft lbs on that dyno =(
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