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Old 08-11-2007, 02:55 AM   #1
Dyno Flash
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Default )5 STI with Gt35R UR kit, Alchy and AP Pro Tune

This car came out very nice - he basically maxed out the UR maf housing which has modfied to 2 and 7/8's-(having it machined out) - Larger than the stock one but not as large as the huge Perrin one. The idea is to try and keep the smallest MAF we can get away with as a smaller maf gives better resolution and driveability on low rpm / low load conditions. Large MAFs and large injectors can make it a real challenege to get it running as smoth as stock. In the case of this car with shall we say medium maf the driveability and idle was perfect.

This tune was obtained with 21 psi of boost - 50 / 50 meth and h2o mix by Snow and 93 octane. This was the most power and boost we could get with this car until we get a larger MAF, the medium maf was maxed out 100% at 22 psi. (did make 465 whp at 22 psi)! The customer has to choose if he wants to keep the current MAf and power level or of he wants to step up and make even power with a larger MAF and retune the car

[IMG][/IMG]

AL
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Last edited by Dyno Flash; 09-09-2007 at 09:56 PM.
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Old 08-11-2007, 11:48 AM   #2
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the curves look very nice. what is the purpose of the bottom graph?

does this car have stock block/heads? what size injectors? how much more power do u think itll make with a big MAF?
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Old 08-11-2007, 12:39 PM   #3
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just out of curiosity is this the same GT35r sti that has been at ICS for weeks that had the hydra originally or is this car a different setup and the other car still remains stuck there
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Old 08-11-2007, 03:49 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BAMBAMSTI06 View Post
just out of curiosity is this the same GT35r sti that has been at ICS for weeks that had the hydra originally or is this car a different setup and the other car still remains stuck there
Your a real comedian

The car that is "stuck here" has been done for a long time and the owner is out of the country on vacation - maybe he will come to get it some time soon - no matter its in our long term storeage area with a car cover

The car in the above chart has a AP1 not a hydra and has a stock motor not a built motor - different car

AL
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Old 08-11-2007, 04:07 PM   #5
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Numbers look good!
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Old 08-11-2007, 04:37 PM   #6
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Al, any reason you are going from smoothing of 2 to 0 to 5 and now are running this dyno by mph also? I'm just confused with all this changing. I know dynos are tuning tools but you're changing the only consistent things...
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Old 08-11-2007, 06:46 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by wrxfactor View Post
Al, any reason you are going from smoothing of 2 to 0 to 5 and now are running this dyno by mph also? I'm just confused with all this changing. I know dynos are tuning tools but you're changing the only consistent things...
I used MPH on that pass as the car made som much power it shook the optical sensor loose on the radiator support and it lost rpm signal

FYI - I change and alter the smoothing as indicated
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Old 08-11-2007, 07:09 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyno Flash View Post
I used MPH on that pass as the car made som much power it shook the optical sensor loose on the radiator support and it lost rpm signal

FYI - I change and alter the smoothing as indicated
Funny how any every other dyno and shop is able to handle "that much power" without loosing signals

and it also looks silky smooth as well
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Old 08-11-2007, 08:04 PM   #9
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Funny how any every other dyno and shop is able to handle "that much power" without loosing signals

and it also looks silky smooth as well
I was able to make 955 with my Evo with no problems on the same dyno - it was just the case that the magnetic base holding the optical pick up vibrated slightly to the side after so many pulls and the singal was lost mid way through our last pull - not the end of the world

Keep in mind that on Subarus we use the optical sensor to simply the process as the coils are ina harder to reach location
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Old 08-11-2007, 08:42 PM   #10
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nice numbers man!!
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Old 08-11-2007, 10:27 PM   #11
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what are the differences between his setup and yours since you have 100 more hp?.... I'm curious because I'm having a 35r setup installed this week..with supporting mods and some upgrades and I am wanting to see the 550-600 range on race gas....as close to 500 as possible on pump (93)....
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Old 08-11-2007, 10:34 PM   #12
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looks sweet - Im in need of some action like that
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Old 08-11-2007, 10:45 PM   #13
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Now, Im still a turbo noob, so forgive me if its obvious. But if the customer is looking for driveability would a blow-through-maf be a good idea? Wouldnt that also yeild more power for his setup? Or are those just rediculous to tune and deal with?
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Old 08-11-2007, 10:56 PM   #14
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I personally find that a stock style maf is superior as the air temp correction is still functional

When you use a blow through maf it is imperative to set up a second maf sensor to log that data
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Old 08-11-2007, 11:06 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyno Flash View Post
I personally find that a stock style maf is superior as the air temp correction is still functional

When you use a blow through maf it is imperative to set up a second maf sensor to log that data
So at what point do you suggest using Speed Density, or do you prefer to tune differently?
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Old 08-11-2007, 11:31 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyno Flash View Post
I personally find that a stock style maf is superior as the air temp correction is still functional

When you use a blow through maf it is imperative to set up a second maf sensor to log that data
So a blow through maf doesnt give accurate readings as to actual intake charge temperature? Sorry--Im just tryin to learn
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Old 08-12-2007, 12:57 AM   #17
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If anything I would think Blow-through would be more accuarate since it meters the actual intake charge (cold side IC piping)

With a TMIC the air charge is always hotter then what the MAF reads.
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Old 08-12-2007, 01:13 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by BlackFlame View Post
So a blow through maf doesnt give accurate readings as to actual intake charge temperature? Sorry--Im just tryin to learn
On a stock ecu the air temp corrections are set up to correct for changes in the abeint air temps as the stock air intake is a cold air source - (drawing air from the under hood scoop). Boost duty cycles, ignition, etc are all set up to vary based upon the ambient air temps.

On a blow through MAf your measured charge temps can vary as much a 30 degress within a single 1/4 mile pass as the intercooler heats up and the turbo discharge temps rise.

It is possible with stand alone systems and also the UTEC to have global fueling and ignition corrections based upon charge air temps

For example an Autronic ecu uses a very sensitive air temp sensor which is designed to be located as near as possible to the throttle body as autronic ecus work on estimated charge air temps at the intake valve

Other stand alones often only rely on air charge temps for extreme global adjustments of the fuel trims when charge temps reach very high or low levels and also for starting in extremely cold conditions.

Depending on how the car is set up - often a ambient air temp sesnor which measure the air temps near the air filter may work better than a charge air temp sensor inside the inatke tube

The UTEC's air temp functions seem to be seldom utilized and many UTEC / Blow Through MAF cars I have seen do not utilize air temp corrections.

I hope this makes sense

Al

Last edited by Dyno Flash; 08-12-2007 at 01:35 AM.
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Old 08-12-2007, 01:17 AM   #19
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Quote:
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If anything I would think Blow-through would be more accuarate since it meters the actual intake charge (cold side IC piping)

With a TMIC the air charge is always hotter then what the MAF reads.
The issue is not the measurement of the air temp indicated at the sensor but rather how you are setting up the ecu and the corrections which comensate for air temp changes.

I think the air temp sensor would be accurate no matter where you put it - my point is that the stock ecu as set up from OEM is set up for a ambient air temp adjustment and not a charge temp correction.
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Old 08-12-2007, 08:29 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyno Flash View Post
I hope this makes sense
It does for the most part-I guess I just always thought that blow-through would be more accurate. It still seems as though it might, it just may be more difficult to setup EM for it whenever I get my motor built. Thanks for the feedback
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Old 08-12-2007, 01:36 PM   #21
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Lookin good Al!! What RPM was max torque at??
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Old 08-12-2007, 01:52 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyno Flash View Post
Your a real comedian

The car that is "stuck here" has been done for a long time and the owner is out of the country on vacation - maybe he will come to get it some time soon - no matter its in our long term storeage area with a car cover

The car in the above chart has a AP1 not a hydra and has a stock motor not a built motor - different car

AL
then how come you only made 350whp on that car? Its that low for a gt35 on a built motor, even with ecutek??????
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Old 08-12-2007, 02:47 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyno Flash View Post
On a stock ecu the air temp corrections are set up to correct for changes in the abeint air temps as the stock air intake is a cold air source - (drawing air from the under hood scoop). Boost duty cycles, ignition, etc are all set up to vary based upon the ambient air temps.

You do realize you can adjust your ignition advance based on ACT using Cobb? I'm not 100% sure on EcuTek, but I know for a fact you can change the way the ECU adds or retards timing based on ACT's.
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Old 08-12-2007, 03:37 PM   #24
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You do realize you can adjust your ignition advance based on ACT using Cobb? I'm not 100% sure on EcuTek, but I know for a fact you can change the way the ECU adds or retards timing based on ACT's.
Of course I realize that as I tune with the stock Subaru ecus on a daily basis and see those maps all the time.


The stock ecu's adjustments are designed to act as safeguards to prevent over boosting in very cold ambient air temps or for example to lower the timing when you hit super hot conditions.

I can get into specific explantions as needed.

My point is that when using a blow through MAF thought must be applied in how to set up the ecu to compensate. My suggestion is to run a second maf in the inner fender or close to the air filter to read the abient conditions.
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Old 08-12-2007, 03:40 PM   #25
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then how come you only made 350whp on that car? Its that low for a gt35 on a built motor, even with ecutek??????
In order to carry on an inteligent dialouge we have to be clear

The car which is the subject of this post made a lot more than 350

The other car with the Hydra made a lot more than this car

I am lost
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