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Old 08-11-2007, 12:03 PM   #1
adhowe70
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Default The H6 Impreza Resource Thread

It looks like there are a couple of us that have running H6 -> Impreza swaps and a couple more working on it. I thought it was time to start a Q/A type thread for this type of swap. It has its own distinct difficulties that don't get discussed in the many STi -> *.* threads. This thread should also serve as a forum for those of us that learn something significant to share it with others.

So, what do you want to know?

Also, this should help keep individual's threads focused on their own cars and keep them from getting too far off topic.

Lesson #1 for me: The EZ30 requires two radiator fans to stay cool when parked and running. There isn't really space for this, but make room. Before I added the second fan, I routinely saw water temperatures of 220 and the car was always hottest parked at idle. After the second fan was installed, I hardly ever see 210.

Andy Howe
'96 Impreza Brighton
EZ30(R) running AVLS but AVCS is disconnected due to lack of tuning
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Old 08-11-2007, 01:37 PM   #2
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Default Ditto

I'm in the middle of a slow moving EG33 swap into a 95 Brighton Coupe with Megasquirt Engine Management. This tread has been needed for a longgg time. Good to see all the H6 movement lately, it will be nice to have other Guinea pigs to exchange ideas with.

Joe in NH
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Old 08-11-2007, 01:46 PM   #3
adhowe70
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I suspect the EG33 is going to be a much more common swap than the EZ30. The engines are cheaper to source and there is much more known about the tuning of these engines. On the other hand, the EG33 is longer than the EZ30, further complicating the spatial conflicts at the front of the engine bay.

On my car, the radiator just barely fits in the stock location. What sort of chassis modifications are required to fit the EG33 in a GM/GC/GF chassis? Given the extra length of the EG33 (vs. the EZ30), did you have to relocate the radiator farther forward? Anyone?
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Old 08-11-2007, 02:10 PM   #4
jezzeppi
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Default EG33 swap in Impreza (Radiator)

First, chuck the AC....After much Ebay browsing of hundreds of different sized and shaped radiators I found what I THINK will work nice in a stock EG33 application. The Radiator from a Saab 900 Turbo (80's and early 90's) fits nicely BETWEEN the upper and lower crossbeams and has the correct locations for the inlet and outlet. This is a used parts only swap (i.e. wife approved) so custom stuff is not in the option list. The Saab had a similar BPH level so I think it will work.
Next is two SPAL 11 or 12" pusher fans. They have a model that is 2.05" wide in the center and only 1" on the edges. I'm planning on notching 1" from the rear side of the bumper beam for the center rear of each fan. The beam should still be in good shape....Theoretically anyway. I gained 5 or 6" with the AC dump/new Rad position. I have pics that I'll post as soon as I'm qualified to do so. Did I mention this was all happening very slowly?

Joe in NH
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Old 08-12-2007, 01:47 AM   #5
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For the EG, the stock Impreza rad will fit under the rad support header after you cut out the top of the lower rail.....signifigantly. I fear that the OE Impreza rad would be insufficient for street use, but mine will only be running for minuets at a time......
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Old 08-12-2007, 09:26 PM   #6
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Thanks for the thread Andy! Is there enough place in front of the EZ30R to keep the a/c in fonction in my impreza?

Thanks, J.
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Old 08-12-2007, 11:02 PM   #7
jedz123
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I used the stock Legacy (EJ22) radiator and I have never run a temp of no more then 200' F. I had to move the radiator forward a good 4 inches or so and installed pusher radiator fans. I lost my hood release and latch from pushing the radiator forward so I installed hood pins (legal in my parts) to keep the hood closed and latched. I also had to take 2 inches or so off the bumper to fit the pusher fans. Other then that the EG33 fit into place nicely. I had to drop the AC! there was no way to keep it, just no way! It wasn't worth any more bumper loss over it. I use the stock ECU and ECU wire harness (stripped of everything but the ECU control wires). This project took me about 350-400 hours to complete. Was it worth it? Definitely!
Oh a link to the video of it currently.
EG33 running In my 94 Legacy
~Jedz
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Old 08-13-2007, 12:06 AM   #8
adhowe70
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I'd prefer to keep this an Impreza focused thread... but good to see one method of fitting the EG33 and the compromises that were required.

Regarding the EZ30 and AC... There is ample room for the condenser in front of the radiator. I'm not sure about fitting lines to and from the pump, however. I've kept my radiator in the OE location (using a stock EZ30R radiator, that is) and the condenser could still fit under the upper radiator support like stock. Given the snug fit between the engine and the radiator, it may be difficult to get a satisfactory fitting of the AC hoses. I never tried.

First major difference between the EG33 and the EZ30: I kept the radiator in the stock location and was able to use two pull fans. Its tight, but it fits.

Edit: In my experience, mounting the engine and radiator in the car is the EASY part of the EZ30(R) swap. Engine management, wiring and throttle body seem to be the sticking points. This comes from the complex engine management required for the EZ30R and its drive by wire throttle body. For what its worth, I used a cable throttle body... but that has its own pitfalls. It requires a TB adapter plate as well as fittings for a cable throttle.
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Old 08-13-2007, 07:58 AM   #9
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Sorry about that didn't know it was an exclusive Impreza thread. I though my input could be valued, for the 94 Legacy engine bay is no that dissimilar to that of an Impreza of the same year.
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Old 08-13-2007, 10:32 AM   #10
adhowe70
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^ I think the early Legacy's like yours are helpful. You have to solve most of the same problems we're faced with.

My statement about keeping this focused on Imprezas was more general in nature. I just don't want this to be a parade of "I swapped an H6 into *.*" thread.

Andy
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Old 08-13-2007, 01:41 PM   #11
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I don't really see a difference between the impreza and lagacy...its a subaru and therefore like lego's...
you wanted and H6 swap thread, so by ALL means, have one.
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Old 08-13-2007, 03:36 PM   #12
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Well, I finally dropped the engine in last night (by myself). I needed about 1 more inch of space to do it without moving the tranny back.....so instead I neatly hack sawed the top from cross beam just between the head lights, bent it forward an inch and .....dropped in no problem.

I'm going to be working on the radiator, cooling lines, intake tract and megasquirt stuff....slowly!

Some Photos

Car is a 95 Impreza Coupe
Engine 92 SVX
Entire Rearend from 05 Impreza Sedan (frame, sus, diff, brakes, stuts...)
Seats 98 Legacy GT
Springs 04 STI
Exhaust custom to 03 WRX Catback
Backup Tranny for when the Stock one breaks (98 Forester)
Front Brakes from 06 Legacy i
Clutch Exedy STG1
Radiator Saab 900 Turbo
Wheels 05 Legacy GT

http://good-times.webshots.com/album/560274113GEKTnl

Joe
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Old 08-13-2007, 08:41 PM   #13
adhowe70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homemade WRX View Post
I don't really see a difference between the impreza and lagacy...its a subaru and therefore like lego's...
you wanted and H6 swap thread, so by ALL means, have one.
With all due respect... parts aren't parts here. An inch here or there means a lot when trying to shove an H6 (particularly an EZ30) into an Impreza. If there's even one extra inch between the front axle and the radiator, its important. It can drastically change the amount of work required from one swap to another.

My goal is to give people a place to ask and answer... Have at it!

(But the first person that offers their advice after swapping an EZ30 into an '04 Legacy Outback gets a bitchslap. )
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Old 08-13-2007, 09:17 PM   #14
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I installed two Permacool 10" pusher fans. I really didn't see any room for puller fans even without the AC condenser. I used a 1st gen EZ30 radiator.

Mick
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Old 08-13-2007, 10:40 PM   #15
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Quote:
(But the first person that offers their advice after swapping an EZ30 into an '04 Legacy Outback gets a bitchslap. )
LOL indeed
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Old 08-14-2007, 12:38 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adhowe70 View Post
(But the first person that offers their advice after swapping an EZ30 into an '04 Legacy Outback gets a bitchslap. )
I don't think it would even fit, man.
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Old 08-14-2007, 04:43 PM   #17
cueauto
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After how long it took me to build my car, I was hesitant to contribute to this thread. But, my car isn't a typical swap anyway you look at it. The conversion isn't so much that its hard to do, but the big question is .....is it really worth it? It makes more power than a stock WRX swap and at lower RPMs. I think the bigger question is, What will you do with the car when its done? If you are interested in a WRX swap and will never mod it, consider the H6. If you have plans for more power, IMO, you can make more power for less money than having the parts made for the H6. I see 400+ WHP wrx's every day...try to get 400WHP from an H6......a little more money unless you have some really good resources or sponsors. I'm just saying be honest with yourself when you figure out your end goal and stick to it....just like any other build......again, just my .02

96 Impreza L 5spd EG33


I didn't need to cut the upper radiator core support to drop the EG in....and I installed mine WITH the trans attached. The reason I cut mine was because of the relocation of the radiator. If I had the time to wait, I could have had one easily made to fit.

Like stated above, getting the engine in the car is BY FAR the easiest part.

So, to put all of the myths to rest......any Subaru H6 will physically fit in an Impreza.

Air conditioning can be retained but you may need to have some custom lines made and get creative with their routing.

Have a custom rad made. Make it easy on yourself! (EG33)

engine and trans mounts......(EG33) the STi Group N are needed and for the more bold, just use solid mounts. The OE 2.0/2.2/2.5 mounts bolt up to the engine with no mods.

Wiring.......same answer as any other swap. Get the diagrams, tag the wires to be left, the wires to be spliced and the wires to go. Check a couple of times and weed them away! Not for the faint of heart. Not that its too hard, just a little scarry to see such a big pile of unused wiring.....which BTW, don't throw away until your definately done with the conversion.
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Old 08-14-2007, 08:21 PM   #18
adhowe70
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^ Agreed in every way.

I chose the H6 due to rules limitations (an AWD car with a 3.0L NA engine is allowed to be lighter 110 pounds than with a 2.0L FI engine). I also compete in a form of motorsports where throttle response is absolutely everything.

Bottom line: An H6 swap is not something I would recommend for everyone.

Why EZ30 or EZ30R? These engines are lighter, I believe, than the EG33. They are definitely shorter than the EG33 and, thus, have fewer fitment issues and better weight distribution (less weight waaaay out on the nose). The EZ30R has AVLS and will allow the use of two cam profiles. It also will allow variable cam timing if you go through the effort to hook up the AVCS as well. At this time, engine management is the sticking point for the AVCS... if your ECU won't do AVCS closed loop, you'll spend a lot of time doing tuning. I my completely under-educated opinion, the EZ30 has all the same potential for power as the EG33, with less weight. The downside is significantly more wiring to get there.

EZ30 engine mounts: the stock EZ30 mounts will mount in your Impreza. The OE mounts for the R variant are plastic and WILL break. I had a pair of STi Group N mounts custom modified to fit the EZ30 (engine side of the mount is different than the EJ series engines).
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Old 08-15-2007, 01:47 AM   #19
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I agree that the performance potential for the EZ series engines will, by far, out perform the EG engine only because of the newness and the advances in technology on the EZ. The EZ'a WILL eventually be much easier to procure as there are many more in production in different models. The ECU manufactures will find a way to make this an easier swap in the future.

IMO, the guys with the H6 swaps that are running the EZ30 engines are the pioneers here (howe, slack....). Yes, there are 700+ WHP EG33 cars out there (rigoli) so I know that can be done. I just cant wait to see what the EZ30s are REALLY capable of. How far did Perrin get with theirs? I heard they gave up on developing the car any further.

I see your point about the weight, however, After I drove Joshs 2.5RS DSP car, I found that the car has WAAAAY too much understeer for me. I'm hoping that the extra 40# (which is the differance in my particular application) will help make the car behave more like a RWD. (I grew up driving muscle cars)
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Old 08-15-2007, 01:48 AM   #20
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BTW...I guess we should start planning an H6- Impreza meet?

hehehehehehhhehe
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Old 08-15-2007, 01:19 PM   #21
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Default H6 Impreza Meet

Don't make that too soon or most of us will need a trailer to attend.

Joe
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Old 08-15-2007, 03:39 PM   #22
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hehehe Myself included!

Actually, I am going up to the shop in a few to see if we can get it driving tonight...we'll see. I have tomorrow to work on it as well. I'm hoping to test on Sat if all goes well.
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Old 08-15-2007, 03:53 PM   #23
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Yeah, let's wait till a few of us get our cars running. Make sure you invite Anders Green since he was the first sucker, I mean pioneer.

Mick
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Old 08-15-2007, 08:38 PM   #24
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IF Legacies are allowed to attend I'm game...and yeah she's ready when your ready!
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Old 08-16-2007, 08:40 AM   #25
cueauto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slack View Post
Yeah, let's wait till a few of us get our cars running. Make sure you invite Anders Green since he was the first sucker, I mean pioneer.

Mick

Agreed! Cant have a meet without the pioneers like Howe and yourself. BTW, how is yours doing? Yours is the project in particular that inspired me to do mine.
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