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Old 12-01-2011, 07:40 PM   #1101
jjelsma
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That makes sense. Thanks for clearing that up.
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Old 12-01-2011, 07:42 PM   #1102
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Sorry double post.
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Old 12-03-2011, 05:45 PM   #1103
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Default H6 weights

I have been scouring the web for info dressed engine weights for subies. I have been on the "what swap" fence for years.

Plan A was a '04ish USDM STi swap but the high price has always held me back. My flawed thinking was that the swap would get cheaper as the donor cars aged, however the popularity of the swap appears to have appreaciated the cost.

So Plan B ...

The goal is 250 to 275 hp while babying the stock 5MT ... I have compiled a short list of options to get there.

EG33 NA
EZ30 NA
EJ255
EJ20R

While many will point out that the EG33 is hefty my hunch is that turbo, intercooler, cast exh manifold (UP) must add up to 50-100 lbs.

So for my modest HP goals (100 hp above the stock EJ25 165hp) what is the lightest option?

I have seen EG33 weights range from 255 -387 lbs ..

http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17681
Long Block Weight: 255 lbs

http://www.funco-motorsports.com/motor_weights.htm
Subaru 2.5L N/A 285lbs.
Subaru 2.5L intercooled turbo 320lbs (aftermarket ... sandrail)

http://www.prekas.nl/subaru.htm

EA-71: 1,6 liter, about 80 hp, about 78 kg dry weight EA-81: 1,8 liter, 100 to 110 hp, about 85 kg dry weight
EJ-22: 2,2 liter, 130 to 160 hp, about 120 kg dry weight
EJ-25: 2,5 liter, 165 to 200 hp, about 135 kg dry weight (298 lbs)
EJ-33: 3,3 liter, 225 to 275 hp, about 160 kg dry weight (353 lbs)

so where does the EZ30(xyz) fall in?

My guess is 330ish which should make it about equivalent to a turbo H4 set up.

Please post references if you have them.

Thanks.
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Old 12-03-2011, 06:01 PM   #1104
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What's the car? Why not just an EJ205? Those are cheap and easy. STi swaps are cheap and easy too...
What do you plan to do with the car?
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Old 12-03-2011, 06:14 PM   #1105
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The project is a BD chassis but since this is the H6 impreza thread I wasnt going to go there ...

Why not EJ205? well the BD is heavy and off boost torque is a concern. I havent totally ruled it out but this is H6 specific so I wanted to stay on topic. The STi drivetrain swaps I have come across have been in the $8,000 range. Stuffing that into a BD has been done no question (and they are awesome)but it is neither cheap nor easy. I agree that a STi swap would be the ultimate technical solution, but I have trouble justifying the investment (time and money) for my old BD.

That and almost every wrx or STi I come across has been front hit with broken cam pulley(s) ... a risky investment.

boost is cool, but there is something to be said for the simplicity of displacement .... if I can meet my power goal (275 ish ) without the added complexity (turbo) and also save weight then that seemed like a win-win.

For some reason I think my chances of finding a side hit or rollover H6 (soccer mom) suv will be much higher.

Last edited by TheBigL; 12-03-2011 at 06:26 PM.
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Old 12-03-2011, 06:45 PM   #1106
Seraphinwolf
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You want 275 crank?
Well the BD isn't too bad a weight issue but time is money and H6's take time. Also pay attention to your state emissions laws and such. EG33 or EZ30D is my suggestion for you.
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Old 12-03-2011, 06:47 PM   #1107
Outlaw57
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Gents,
Sounds like you lads are having a blast with your modifications! I have built many muscle cars and modified many street trucks and kind of know what you are up against. I know that this thread is for Impreza's that have been upgraded to the H6 engine, don't currently know what the difference is with these engines yet, and although my Luke is a 2011 3.6R Legacy I am hoping that one or two of you lads might know where I might purchase exhaust upgrades for my specific model. Notwithstanding the differences in displacement and obvious geometry issues for sure. From a mechanical enigneer's perspective, to which I am one, I would be very cautious about cuttting any rad supports etc. without providing additional support after the fact to gain back the integrity of the front clip.
I very much appreciate any help with my request for exhaust modifications for my Luke.

Pete.
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Old 12-03-2011, 07:06 PM   #1108
Seraphinwolf
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Not much for the 3.6l's. On the design does not lend to a healthy crank for anything but NA. Making a header and then throwing on an aftermaket Legacy GT or Outback XT trim catback exhaust section then go with a highflow catalytic converter for exhaust work. Cheaply smooth out the intake for more free flow. After that it's mostly just work on weight reduction or temperature control through more efficient radiator, head wrapping the header, and it's like.
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Old 12-03-2011, 07:19 PM   #1109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seraphinwolf View Post
You want 275 crank?
Well the BD isn't too bad a weight issue but time is money and H6's take time. Also pay attention to your state emissions laws and such. EG33 or EZ30D is my suggestion for you.
Yup 275 hp crank ... realistically I dont trust the 5MT much past that in a daily driver.

I agree while the car is basically worthless, it has relatively low miles (110,000) and is smaller and lighter than current models.

No local emission laws ... so no worries there.

I really want the facts (weight) for the H6 before I cross it off this option list.
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Old 12-03-2011, 07:43 PM   #1110
Seraphinwolf
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If you can afford it an EZ30R with a standalone will do the trick.
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Old 12-03-2011, 10:17 PM   #1111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Olsen View Post
I realize this thread has been dormant for a couple years, just figured I'd follow up on an old post so anyone interested can find engine weight information if they search.


So, it turned out "in the near future" would be about 4 years. The EZ30R stayed in its crate as I was transferred from DC to RI to WA to DC over the past few years. I finally made some room in my garage recently so I could get the engine out of the crate and start to play with it.

Today I weighed the EZ30R. Similar conditions as above - no clutch or flywheel, fluids drained, intake & TB resting on top, no PS pump, no alternator, AC compressor lying on top. The AC compressor isn't the right one, but it should weigh within a couple/few pounds I think.

EZ30R weight - 312#

I used the same game scale that I used to weigh the EJ25D 4 years ago. It's been dropped and manhandled since then, so I'm not sure it's in the best of shape, but I weighed myself hanging from it and it was within ~4# of my bathroom scale.

I think when I weighed the EJ25D I lifted it with a ratchet strap, which only weighs ~3#. I don't remember if I accounted for that in the weight above. Today I lifted the EZ30R with a 4-point chain hoist, which weighs ~14#, so that's accounted for in the 312# total.

Since the scale isn't perfectly accurate, I'd say that weight is +/-10 or 15#. Most of the guesses I've seen for the EZ30R put its weight at 50-55# more than an EJ25. Based on my admittedly rough results, looks like the difference is a bit more than that.

Pat Olsen
Thanks Pat!
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Old 12-04-2011, 06:05 PM   #1112
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Seeing this, Pat, where is your EZ30 project?
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Old 12-04-2011, 06:12 PM   #1113
Patrick Olsen
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In pieces in my garage, next to the pieces of an LS6 waiting to go into my CTS-V. I still have yet to get my heads back from Delta Cam. Admittedly, I haven't been riding them hard, but it's been months now.
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Old 12-04-2011, 07:13 PM   #1114
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Hey Patrick, in the quote above you said that the 14lbs is included in the 312 lbs. Just to confirm the actual weight would be 298 lbs without the bracket then?

Do you plan to run the 5MT? I remember a while back you said your brother took out 3rd or 4th gear ...

Is the concensus then that the EZ30 would be lighter than a EJ255 complete with turbo, piping and intercooler (top mount)?

Seems very close ...

power wise I typically consider 80-90 hp/l decent to very good for NA factory performance stuff. (based on realistic BMEP and rpm estimates)
liter hp cost
2.5 -> 200-225 $
3.0 -> 240-270 $$
3.3 -> 264-297 $$$

EJ25 T-> 225 (homebrew, conservative power) $$
EJ255 -> 250+ $$
EJ257 -> 300+ (full STi drivetrain swap required) $$$

$ bolt ons
$$ engine, ecu, bolt ons
$$$ engine, ecu, bolt ons, drivetrain

I am looking for the bang for buck deal here while avoiding a bunch of weight.
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Old 12-05-2011, 12:55 AM   #1115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Olsen View Post
In pieces in my garage, next to the pieces of an LS6 waiting to go into my CTS-V. I still have yet to get my heads back from Delta Cam. Admittedly, I haven't been riding them hard, but it's been months now.
That's an all too familiar story. Took months to get EG33 heads from them that a customer of mine had sent out.
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Old 12-05-2011, 07:19 AM   #1116
Seraphinwolf
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Big... The 3.3 is way cheaper than the 3.0 in D or R flavor... Just an FYI. And you'll need to break down each 3.0L into it's own slot. Especially since the R even without AVCS active makes way better power than the D. D's put down like 170whp with light work of bolt one. The R is already into 200's...
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Old 12-05-2011, 11:36 AM   #1117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBigL View Post
Hey Patrick, in the quote above you said that the 14lbs is included in the 312 lbs. Just to confirm the actual weight would be 298 lbs without the bracket then?

Do you plan to run the 5MT? I remember a while back you said your brother took out 3rd or 4th gear ...
The 312# was already taking into account the 14# of the lifting hoist. The scale read 326#, and I took off the 14# to get the engine's weight.

And I have an '06 6MT in the car. I already had the 6MT on a pallet when 2nd gear went in the old 5MT, so it just seemed pointless to rebuild and reinstall the 5MT.
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Old 12-28-2011, 09:04 AM   #1118
lostinthesauce83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kheff46 View Post
i have the info on all data. it won't let me send it or copy tho! im trying..

--keith
There are programs that let you print to a file. A guy in my engineering classes has access to alldata and that is what he does for me.

Also has anyone out there ever completed a eg33 swap into a GD chassis?

Last edited by lostinthesauce83; 12-28-2011 at 09:47 AM.
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Old 12-28-2011, 07:40 PM   #1119
Seraphinwolf
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Someone probably has but a motor that stopped production in 97' into an 02'+ car probably won't go over so well during inspection.
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Old 12-29-2011, 04:53 AM   #1120
lostinthesauce83
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Thankfully I live in florida were there are no inspections.
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Old 12-29-2011, 07:31 AM   #1121
Seraphinwolf
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Well then here's the question. Why the EG33 instead of an EZ30R then if you can run a standalone with no issues?
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Old 12-29-2011, 10:36 AM   #1122
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The cost really... I just picked up an eg33 with 69k for $200. So now I am able to spend more money else wear, like turbocharging.

Last edited by lostinthesauce83; 12-29-2011 at 11:25 AM.
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Old 12-29-2011, 01:11 PM   #1123
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Holy crap, that's cheap! Where in tarnation did you get one for so cheap...
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Old 12-29-2011, 01:44 PM   #1124
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Brandon auto salvage. In Florida. It had been sitting on there shelf for 10 years. I pulled the valve covers and and oil pan before I bought it. It looks brand new on the inside. No wear, and not a speck of rust. But the cooling system was a different story. Water pump was gone.
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Old 12-29-2011, 11:22 PM   #1125
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Can someone on here talk about what they have done to the radiator support when swapping the EZ30. Either the D or the R flavor. They are both the same dimensions.
I'm in a place where I have to get some work done on the front due to a fended bender that happened to the car before I owned it. So if the radiator support needs to come out now would be a good time to know about it.
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