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Old 01-07-2002, 06:40 PM   #1
elemental
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Default quite a bit of swirl mark/scratch related stuff

ok, so'z i used my ryobi buffer my dad thought would be convenient because he sees that i'm spending more time with my car than he originally thought i would =) can't say he's wrong

but i used it and supposedly i've asked around and i shouldn't have used the pads that come with as they are the wrong kind to use to buff off and now i have 'micro-marring' on the car, plus it had swirl marks to begin with being that it's a black car and whatnot

so... i've been waxing over this stuff long enough and im fed up with the swirling i see even though i wax diligently (by hand since im scared of the buffer) (i never expected it to go away i just want to make it right now)

people say it should be fine if it's an orbital buffer which it is and shouldnt cause swirls even though it's not as great of a buffer as a porter cable or some such would be, this true? i am ok using this as long as i get the right pads and dont press that hard? if that's so, then good

second, what compounds do you guys use to get rid of the swirls ? i have been looking at compounds recommended by some people, namely the 3m perfect it swirl mark remover for dark cars. i know 3m has varying products for this purpose as some are for a good amount of swirls and some are just for lightly swirled/scratched cars. i have attached a picture of some of the bad stuff and maybe you guys can recommend on what to use?

also could any of you go through the basic steps to use these two products together (orbital buffer and swirl mark remover) or should i do it by hand (though i've heard a buffer is better for swirl mark remover/polishing)

sorry for the whole deal it's just pissing me off and i dont think i've seen any threads particularly suited to this kind of thing on here before.


notice those horizontal marks reflecting the sunlight, those are tiny vertical scratches that i think have been caused by using the wrong pad, it looks much worse in person as you can actually see the individual tiny scratches, these are not just plain swirl marks though i do have those as well, so need to use the heavy stuff?

PS: how much would it be to have a pro. detailer work on it to get out this stuff do you think? big bucks? (i dont like to go to people for things i can do but i really dont want to screw it up anymore than i have)
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Last edited by elemental; 01-07-2002 at 06:55 PM.
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Old 01-07-2002, 07:52 PM   #2
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Just read an article about waxing and detailing. It made reference not to use dish soap, because it removes the wax.
I think in your case you might want to remove the wax and start over. Check and see if you can move the swirles. What I mean by that is that if you wipe the swirl in a different direction and look at it does it change. If the swirl moives then you know that it is a wax film that you see. Try to remove the wax and start over. I'm just using logic from the article that I read. Try it on the small area
and see if you can clean it off.

I found out that washing your car when its really dirty can cause more damage to the show room shine. If you really think about it when you wash your car the wrong way you are just rubbing the dirt into the paint and it just so happens the dirt sticks to the rag. If you really dont rinse the dirt off the rag you rubbing it in more so. I never really let the dirt build up on my car until the recent rains here in So Cal and the dealer washed it after a oil change. This is when I noticed the tiny scratched in the light. Let the dirt build up on the car and you have 10000 grit sand paper, wipe it with a soapy rag and the tiny scratches appear. Bottom line to keep that show room shine, dont let the dirt build up, and watch how you wash your car. Up until now I only had to spray the dust off my car, then it rained recently and I let it slide. I didnt know the dealer was going to wash the car after the oil change. I can see the first wipe of the rag on the hood.
Showroom shine poof!!!! .
Live and learn for the people who cares.

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Old 01-07-2002, 09:03 PM   #3
Subie Gal
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wish i could see a better picture.
if it's not too bad you can try buffing it out with detail clay and spray.... and if it's really bad.... just eat it and take it to a professional.

not sure what that type of thing runs... but the paint is bad enough as it is.... and it may be best just to live, learn and start all over again.

you can purchase detail clay (well, this is what i use) here:
http://www.griotsgarage.com

good luck, whatever you do.
Jamie
www.subiegal.com
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Old 01-07-2002, 09:24 PM   #4
elemental
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detail clay gets out swirl marks? i was under the impression that it just got your paint very smooth by picking up contaminants that are stock or lodge or whatever into the clear coat...
what im talking about are scratches in the clearcoat and abrasives that will effectively weaken the clearcoat i guess but still get them out... i dont want to go to a detailer and get jipped by him just filling up the scratches (as i think zaino does) rather than getting them out


and the paint's not in bad shape, you can't tell anything's wrong with it when the sun's not directly shining on it, it's just when the light refracts off the scratches does it look bad.
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Old 01-07-2002, 10:50 PM   #5
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Elemental, you're right about clay. I don't agree with you regards swirl removal however. In order to remove them, your clearcoat will have to be abraded down until the swirls are abraded away. I think the gains are out weighed by the risk. You (or a "professional") could do a world of hurt to your finish if the clearcoat is sanded away.

If it were me, I'd use Zaino Z-5 rather than risk destroying the finish.
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Old 01-08-2002, 12:34 AM   #6
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well, just in case, how much would it take (money) for me to get all the zaino stuff? (meaning all that i would need, cuz i know there are different products, polish and wax and whatnot)
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Old 01-08-2002, 05:20 AM   #7
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Elemental ...

You'd have to purchase their proprietary primer (Z-1 at $9) and their "wax" that covers swirls (Z-5 at $17).

I personally think the Z-6 adds a lot of depth but its optional ($10). I use Meguiar's Gold Class Car Wash (Target at $10/gallon) and a 100% cotton wash mitt.

These prices are quite modest in that if applied properly, the above will do your Subie a dozen times over.

I use this stuff and co-workers regularly ask me what I have on my WRX that causes it to look like it does
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Old 01-08-2002, 06:06 AM   #8
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Dude, put on a shirt! J/K
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Old 01-08-2002, 02:01 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by We're Here
Elemental ...

You'd have to purchase their proprietary primer (Z-1 at $9)
Actually, Z-1 is no longer needed. You can get the Zaino ZFX instead. You mix a bit of Z-2 or Z-5 with ZFX and apply directly. Plus, the advantage of this is that you can now apply multiple coats in one day, and you don't have to wait ~1 hour to buff.

www.zainobros.com has more details.

As for swirl removal, if it's light, try out Z-5. If it's heavy and you've got bad scratches, you'll need to use swirl remover. I would suggest going to http://autopia-carport.com/ForumIndex.htm and ask the detailers there for advice (or search). Lots and lots of useful information there.

Good luck! And long live Zaino.

/mel
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Old 01-08-2002, 04:48 PM   #10
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Kostamojen: that's what so. cal. summers do to me =P

and thanks everyone for the zaino recommendations and other misc. things
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Old 01-08-2002, 08:57 PM   #11
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There are a number of options and Skyline has presented another. I was trying to keep it as simple as possible. Another consideration might be cost.

By not using the Z-1, you save $9. But, the ZFX is $20. Additionally, to use the ZFX (you mix this with the Z-5) and eliminate the Z-1, Sal Zaino says the entire car has to be clayed first, another $17.

Finally, though Zaino has a great track record, ZFX was only released a month ago (December 4th, I believe) so ZFX's durability hasn't been established yet. The Z-1, Z-5 combo is proven
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Old 01-08-2002, 09:06 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by elemental
Kostamojen: that's what so. cal. summers do to me =P
But its winter!!!
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Old 01-08-2002, 11:36 PM   #13
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it was taken in september, so you shut up =P

and yes, september's are still hot around here. hot and sometimes windy from the santa anas.
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Old 01-09-2002, 03:33 AM   #14
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Well ya, it can be hot here in september too

Im just messing with you
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Old 01-09-2002, 10:03 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by We're Here
There are a number of options and Skyline has presented another. I was trying to keep it as simple as possible. Another consideration might be cost.

By not using the Z-1, you save $9. But, the ZFX is $20. Additionally, to use the ZFX (you mix this with the Z-5) and eliminate the Z-1, Sal Zaino says the entire car has to be clayed first, another $17.

Finally, though Zaino has a great track record, ZFX was only released a month ago (December 4th, I believe) so ZFX's durability hasn't been established yet. The Z-1, Z-5 combo is proven
Good points! Lots of Zaino fans here..

Although ZFX has only been publicly released for a month, it's been under development for over a year, and it's been beta tested by people for quite some time now. I've only heard good reports.

Yes, to use ZFX you need to clay the entire car. Then again, I don't believe in applying Z-1 to a non-clayed car anyway, so..

For a lot of people, limiting yourself to a single application of Z-1 followed by a single application of Z-2 or Z-5 in a day is not acceptable. I like to apply multiple coats all at once. Plus, not having to wait for the polish to cure is ++++.

/mel
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Old 01-09-2002, 02:05 PM   #16
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Default swirls

Your swirls were probably either caused by using the wrong kind of pad on your buffer, or by dirt trapped in the pad or on the paint. What kind of pad came with the buffer? You should be using a soft FOAM pad, not a wool or "cutting" pad. 3M Swirl Mark Remover for dark cars should work well removing your marring... but I have heard from others that it can cause microswirls that appear to be a haze on black cars. I have used Meguiars Swirl Mark Reducer 2.0 (#9) and it works very well.

Either way, and especially if you choose to go with Zaino (or any other protectant system) you should start from scratch (no pun intended). Wash it with dish detergent to remove all old wax, then claybar the car to remove surface contaminants, then wash again with car shampoo to remove and clay & dishdetergent residues. Then hit the car with the orbital and some Meguiars #9 SMR 2.0. It may take several applications of the #9 to get the swirls out, just be patient. After that, you should probably wash again just to make sure there arent any abrasives left on the paint from the #9, and then apply your Zaino system or whatever you choose.

You should also check out http://www.autopia-forums.com there's tons of info on removing swirls and a great forum like this one dedicated to detailing.


Good luck,

-Chip
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Old 01-09-2002, 08:11 PM   #17
elemental
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ok, i think i got what i needed, yes, i was told on autopia a long time ago when i asked but when i was too lazy to do anything about it that the smr might cause micro swirls but was told of another product that reduced those swirls, so i guess a two step product (but only some reported them)... thanks everyone for the info and i will restate one question, as long as the ryobi buffer is an orbital it should be fine? (with the right pad of course) (i used a wool pad or something to buff, going to get microfiber ones i think)
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Old 01-09-2002, 08:13 PM   #18
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Default Re: swirls

Quote:
Originally posted by 02 T-WREX
Your swirls were probably either caused by using the wrong kind of pad on your buffer, or by dirt trapped in the pad or on the paint. What kind of pad came with the buffer? You should be using a soft FOAM pad, not a wool or "cutting" pad. 3M Swirl Mark Remover for dark cars should work well removing your marring... but I have heard from others that it can cause microswirls that appear to be a haze on black cars. I have used Meguiars Swirl Mark Reducer 2.0 (#9) and it works very well.

Either way, and especially if you choose to go with Zaino (or any other protectant system) you should start from scratch (no pun intended). Wash it with dish detergent to remove all old wax, then claybar the car to remove surface contaminants, then wash again with car shampoo to remove and clay & dishdetergent residues. Then hit the car with the orbital and some Meguiars #9 SMR 2.0. It may take several applications of the #9 to get the swirls out, just be patient. After that, you should probably wash again just to make sure there arent any abrasives left on the paint from the #9, and then apply your Zaino system or whatever you choose.

You should also check out http://www.autopia-forums.com there's tons of info on removing swirls and a great forum like this one dedicated to detailing.


Good luck,

-Chip
hehhehheh ... Chip, you've got everyone on this forum reaching for the Turtle Wax!
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Old 01-10-2002, 04:31 PM   #19
02 T-WREX
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You shouldn't have any problem with your buffer as long as it's an orbital, as you said. You're on the right track, get some soft foam or microfiber pads and stay away from those wool & terry pads!! Personally I like applying product with the foam pads and using the microfiber to remove (although I usually remove products by hand).

I know, I know... this is all a lot of work, but most of the results will come from proper surface prep and not the products themselves.

Good luck.

-Chip
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Old 01-10-2002, 11:09 PM   #20
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I would also agree you should go to autopia, however, I think their site address is updated now. Try autopia-carport.com
and do ALOT of reading and learning. I learned more there about caring for a car's finish than some of the confusing information I was picking up here. Go straight to the source and learn all you can. I happened to get some of the Klasse they sell and it helped my dark finish alot.

Go to their site and be educated. Very helpful, with auto care information. forums like here with people who do detailing ALOT, and also products you can order. Great site!!
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