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Old 08-23-2007, 01:19 AM   #1
Nivekk
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Default I need some insight on Intercoolers and some other thoughts.

To make a long story short, my front bumper sags and generally does not fit perfect to the fenders/hood due to the Perrin FMIC I have and its apparent botchy installation. Personally, the "look" of the FMIC grew on me at first, but due to a combination of distaste with the way the bumper sags and looks with the FMIC, a desire to go for a "Spec C" look (which would obviously not include a FMIC), and some general "need for change", I am considering going with a big TMIC instead, and buying a new front bumper from Subarugenuineparts and just be done with it.

Therein lies my concern and its inexorable question attached. My engine modifications are as follows:

7cm FP Green 2.4" ported
Perrin FMIC
DeatschWerks 740cc injectors
Walbro 255lph fuel pump
Gruppe-S v3 headers
Helix Up pipe
JIC Titanium Cat back exhaust
Titek Catless Downpipe
HKS SSQ Blow off valve
Perrin turbo inlet
Perrin Crank Pulley
Perrin Large MAF housing

I'm protuned for 93 pump @ 347whp 359ftlbs on a Dynojet. I plan on running an Aquamist meth/water kit in the future, which will go along with the pump gas. I have no plans for race gas. I'm disappointed in the turbo's lag and my car's general lack of "down low" driveability. Once the turbo spools in the mid 3k's, the car pulls like a monster and does so all the way to redline, however. This lag may be due to the tune, and not the FMIC, but I'm not sure.

With regard to my ever-growing distaste with the look of the FMIC, and my desire for a clean "Spec C" looking car (v limited lip, roof vent, etc), would you guys suggest switching to a big TMIC, or would I be making a big mistake. Am I going to LOOSE horsepower potential on the FP Green considering future plans for meth, and heatsoak the hell out of my manifold? Or is a big TMIC perfect for daily driveability, a stock looking car, and plenty of potential to retain my current pump gas tune and make room for more? I mean, I could always use a ****load of heatwrap, right?

My goals here are a cleaner, less "modified" look to the front end of my STi, a daily driveable throttle response, and horsepower potential retention withouth the risk of heat soak.

What, in your guys' opinion, would be in my best interest here?
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Old 08-23-2007, 01:25 AM   #2
n2oiroc
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although im not totally happy with my setup (very close to yours) my spearco top mount isnt a restriction at all and should spool faster than a fmic. do you have the dyno sheet? im curious to see the temp, correction, and how much boost your running.
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Old 08-23-2007, 01:38 AM   #3
Nivekk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n2oiroc View Post
although im not totally happy with my setup (very close to yours) my spearco top mount isnt a restriction at all and should spool faster than a fmic. do you have the dyno sheet? im curious to see the temp, correction, and how much boost your running.
It really hot that day - about 90 degrees Farenheit. It's at 18lbs of boost. I don't know the correction, though.

I have the dyno sheet laying around here somewhere.

Does that info help?
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Old 08-23-2007, 01:43 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nivekk View Post
It really hot that day - about 90 degrees Farenheit. It's at 18lbs of boost. I don't know the correction, though.

I have the dyno sheet laying around here somewhere.

Does that info help?
a little. im trying to figure out why mine seems to spool late. in the same conditions as yours i get 15lbs at about 3,500 and 20lbs by 3,900 - 4,000. nearly the same setup except i have an element gt49 and the spearco tmic.
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Old 08-23-2007, 01:53 AM   #5
Nivekk
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In an effort to make sure the thread doesn't get off track, does anyone have any input on my original questions?

n2, thanks!
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Old 08-23-2007, 09:21 AM   #6
Nivekk
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I've tried searching. Most of what I'm finding points towards a FMIC being the better choice despite extra lag, but there are opinions that exist where the TMIC is perfectly fine for a streetable FP Green setup.

This is what I've found, anyone have some personal insight?
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Old 08-23-2007, 09:26 AM   #7
MNAutomatic
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If people can run a TMIC on 30R and 35R applications I dont think you much to worry about. Just wrap everything possible and if you do meth injection I dought you'll have a problem.
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Old 08-23-2007, 10:02 AM   #8
Unabomber
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Read the TMIC FAQ, search for it. You can switch to a TMIC and have similar results as your FMIC. Get a TMIC, wrap your turbo, and don't look back.
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Old 08-23-2007, 08:19 PM   #9
Nivekk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unabomber View Post
Read the TMIC FAQ, search for it. You can switch to a TMIC and have similar results as your FMIC. Get a TMIC, wrap your turbo, and don't look back.
I read the Intercooler FAQ before I made this thread and it definitely helped. I was just trying to get some personal accounts based on opinion. Thanks for making the FAQ's btw, you rock.

I'm pretty sure I'll go back to a TMIC with wrap. Now the problem lies within trying to get the bumper back to stock which involves taking a new bumper to a body shop for paint, ah CRAP.
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Old 08-23-2007, 11:44 PM   #10
DubOHio
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what are you going for function or forum... Me personaly I would go for function and stay with the from mount and maybe find a better way of mounting it.... One of your other options would be to find a better smaller intercooler Like Percisions and mount that on the front I have had good look with these on the track
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Old 08-24-2007, 12:51 AM   #11
UltimateLurker
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How much the TMIC will hold you back depends on the specific type of driving you do with it. If you're constantly on the move, like in road-racing, you'll be fine with a TMIC. However, if you're more into drag racing, it'll hurt you a bit more.

On a side note, I've seen a lot of people run a big TM with the FP Green, and I'll be running one with my 20G.
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Old 08-24-2007, 01:06 AM   #12
TurboB18C1DC2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UltimateLurker View Post
How much the TMIC will hold you back depends on the specific type of driving you do with it. If you're constantly on the move, like in road-racing, you'll be fine with a TMIC. However, if you're more into drag racing, it'll hurt you a bit more.

On a side note, I've seen a lot of people run a big TM with the FP Green, and I'll be running one with my 20G.
in an old sport compact car mag where they had their project wrx they ran an aps topmount and had bad problems with heat soak. yes the iat were lower with that big tmic and it did take longer to heat soak but once it was heat soaked there was no difference in iat compared to the stock top mount. these were measured with a thermocouple not of a datalog so...... so i think in that sense you are right. when you have to sit in the pits for a long time at the strip a tmic might not be the best.

and yes alot of my sti and wrx friends bitch about lag with a tmic setup, but you can also change your timing curve aka pull timing out on the low end where the turbo spools to increase your egts and therefore increase the exhaust gas energy to help with spool up. you can check out evanstuning, honda-tech or pgmfi.org. there are some good writeups of how much timing retard was used and how the overall curve was to improve their lag. obviously these timing maps are just for a very rough reference and should not be used on your cars.
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Old 08-24-2007, 01:09 AM   #13
TurboB18C1DC2
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i've also known a lot of dsm guys that have used coatings on exhaust housings to help lag as well. they seem to prefer the coatings more than the wraps. this seems to be the concensus in the honda and mkiv world too, but i couldnt tell you why.
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Old 08-24-2007, 02:41 PM   #14
Badler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboB18C1DC2 View Post
...and yes alot of my sti and wrx friends bitch about lag with a tmic setup...
Huh?
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Old 08-24-2007, 06:07 PM   #15
TurboB18C1DC2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronmsadler View Post
Huh?

no i meant tmic. with the top mount you have really short intercooler piping which really increases the lag.


jk

i meant fmic
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