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Old 08-24-2007, 10:52 AM   #26
M3GTR
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V-mounted 40R...what

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making 600whp with a 40r really isnt that difficult, making it run reliably is really tough and takes a lot of work. We used a 2.35L stroked ej22t, pautor rods and cp pistons with 9:1 compression. I tried to make it work with wrx heads which was a mistake looking back on it. If you do what I did with some really nice ported heads, you could easily make 600whp with c16.

To answer some of your questions, we used twin walbros which seems to be more than sufficient. You should take the exhaust off for the dyno so it doesnt really matter what you run on the street. Flipping and porting never hurt anyone. You probably want to build the motor for top end so use a 4-1 header. Definitely run a MAP based stand-alone ecu.

Expect to run into problems and break things, including your budget.
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Old 08-24-2007, 12:25 PM   #27
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two 255's is definately sufficient for 600 whp...
m3gtr's comments are spot on...I personally wouldn't do a 4-1 using a 40r. I'd run a twinscroll manifold.
my main tips would be, don't shortcut your EM, fuel system, heads and oiling system.
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Old 08-24-2007, 02:14 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by SloRice View Post
The 40R is still somewhat unproven. The 4088 is a turd turbo that is not worth anything for high boost. The 4094 looks great on paper, but I've heard it spools like a 42R with way less power....might was well get the 42R then.
Checkmate! Damn, I hate being right.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1332567
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Old 08-24-2007, 02:19 PM   #29
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I hate to say "woulda, coulda" but with the ported heads that are on that car, my car would have made 700whp on a dynojet, considering i put down 597whp, with a boost leak, on a dyno dynamics. 40r is a great turbo, efficient at high boost, just wait to see what the UR kit puts out at high boost, it wont be far off those numbers.
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Old 08-24-2007, 02:36 PM   #30
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I'm not saying the 40R is a bad turbo. I'm just saying the 4094 is just as laggy as a 42R. Why not just get a 42R and make another 150whp. You're selling yourself short with the 4094.
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Old 08-24-2007, 03:16 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by SloRice View Post
I'm not saying the 40R is a bad turbo. I'm just saying the 4094 is just as laggy as a 42R. Why not just get a 42R and make another 150whp. You're selling yourself short with the 4094.
now that is a statement I would agree with...except fitting the 40r in an engine bay is easier than a 42r
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Old 08-24-2007, 08:52 PM   #32
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my gt30r setup is tuned and has ran 11.8's all day...making 420hp/438tq....but im having a few issues with it....im not happy and i want more power...

this is what im looking at

1.Cosworth cnc ported heads w/ springs/retainners
rods/cams/pistons/bearings/studs
2. Ultimate racing gt35r kit with 1000cc injector kit, along with dual walbros
3. axles and driveshaft

would that setup get me into the 10's?
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Old 08-24-2007, 09:53 PM   #33
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Quote:
"im not happy and i want more power"
Quote of the year.
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Old 08-25-2007, 12:25 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bloopsta26 View Post
my gt30r setup is tuned and has ran 11.8's all day...making 420hp/438tq....but im having a few issues with it....im not happy and i want more power...

this is what im looking at

1.Cosworth cnc ported heads w/ springs/retainners
rods/cams/pistons/bearings/studs
2. Ultimate racing gt35r kit with 1000cc injector kit, along with dual walbros
3. axles and driveshaft

would that setup get me into the 10's?
The Big Valley guys are into the 10's with less engine... Stock block with them, and they are well in the 10's.
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Old 08-25-2007, 01:41 AM   #35
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im going to offer you the cheapest recipe to 600... if you already have the perrin kit, keep it...

if you want to add some security, throw in a set of slugs (pistons). the stock rods are good to 500+ they're forged. if in doubt, a set of eagle rods are cheap and tough.

· perrin rotated kit (swap the 30R for a 35R with the 1.06 a/r)
· UR 1000+cc injectors (or you could use RC 1000cc's with WRX rails)
· dual walbros
· hYdra or other standalone
· NX wet kit (50hp)

and fill in the small details like FMIC, exhaust, etc...
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Old 08-25-2007, 01:45 AM   #36
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oh and an ACT 6puck clutch... its cheap and holds A LOT of power.
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Old 08-25-2007, 04:28 AM   #37
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would someone tell me the difference between a .82 and 1.06r? someone pm or tell me what it does in spool up and what not
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Old 08-25-2007, 04:58 AM   #38
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okay sooo...

I want it to be some what "reliable". I dont want to say i cut corners when i did the 1st setup but now i have run into issues with it and im not happy. I want to build the bottom end and have motor work done and make it more sustainable. I know that cant make the car 100% fail proof but if i ahve the money to do it now why not do it. I mean what if i get to the tune date and it has 2 pulls and say it spins a rod bearing or something like that....if i got the money to play lets use it....but i deff know where going the simple way is nice...but what if 3 months down the road and the car has failure to the bottom end of something.....

I guess i want to do it right and make this car be built strong....
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Old 08-25-2007, 06:05 AM   #39
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If I was building a 600+awhp WRX, I'd spend the coin required to make it RELIABLE as well as fast. If I couldn't afford a reliable 600HP setup, I simply wouldn't do it.

Having seen for myself what it takes to make 600+awhp, this is what I'd do.

1. Cosworth crate long motor.....get Cosworth to sleeve and torque plate hone the block also (I've been told they can do this if you ask nicely, for a price of course).

2. Full-Race GT40R twin scroll kit.

3. MoTeC M800 ECU with v3.4 software, PID and advanced functions. Nothing less.

4. Beef up cooling, fuel and oiling system accordingly. These support options really add cost to the setup, but help with reliability.

5. PPG 1-5 dog box, Cusco twin plate, Cusco F/C/R diffs. Bosch load cell sensor configured with the MoTeC ECU to cut ignition and allow flat shift. You can make all the power in the world but you need to put it down to the ground too.
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Old 08-25-2007, 06:29 AM   #40
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Ya i mean i hope i dont sound crazy. Im not trying to get no 700 awhp. But if i could get 550awhp and make it some what reliable then thats what ill do. Like 600 awhp would be cool but thats what id like to make not saying id see it at all.....i guess a setup to get me to see 10.5's and make it work decent.

If i did the gt35r with a pnp heads with pistons/rods/cams along with axles, 1200cc injectors, rebuild my trans and get some suspension work along with some drs along with my utec and other mods would 10.5's be do-able?

if i was pushing 600 awhp would the drivetrain be able to handle it? im running a stage 2 exady clutch?

would you guys suggest pnp the heads and doing the bottom end or just doing pistons/rods/cams and then doing the gt35r with ppgs?

i have 16k to spend on this to start me off....I want this build to go thru the winter and have things some what ready for a tune in say april/may time.....doesnt mean i have to have every single part at this very moment.....just the basics to get things started and the ball rolling...
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Old 08-25-2007, 06:35 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burnin4 View Post
I dont think you can go wrong with a UR35R kit. you'd really be surprised how much fun that turbo is on the stock block+race gas. It is reasonable to expect 550whp (depending on the dyno) and contain enough potential to run 10's.....that doesnt mean it will happen.

I have personally trapped 101mph+ in the 8th and 129mph in the qtr on a 550whp UR35r setup. you have to make a drastic investment into a setup to see results that are marginally better imo. several new weak links start to rear teh ugly head once you try to go beyond those levels, fueling issues, clutch, axles, driveability, and reliability.

do you want a garage monster that has tons of whoop azz, but only runs 6 months out of the year, or do you want a tamed yet angry creature (stock sti+35r+supporting mods) that has enough umph to walk a stock C6Z06/viper from a roll?

I'm not trying to talk you out of a 16k monster build, they are quit rewarding (hopefully ), but I'd take this project in steps, cause you might decide you are pretty happy without selling the farm.
+2 on this still think at somepoint down the road you should slowly build a block. and get heads also with cams
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Old 08-25-2007, 06:38 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bloopsta26 View Post
Ya i mean i hope i dont sound crazy. Im not trying to get no 700 awhp. But if i could get 550awhp and make it some what reliable then thats what ill do. Like 600 awhp would be cool but thats what id like to make not saying id see it at all.....i guess a setup to get me to see 10.5's and make it work decent.

If i did the gt35r with a pnp heads with pistons/rods/cams along with axles, 1200cc injectors, rebuild my trans and get some suspension work along with some drs along with my utec and other mods would 10.5's be do-able?

if i was pushing 600 awhp would the drivetrain be able to handle it? im running a stage 2 exady clutch?

would you guys suggest pnp the heads and doing the bottom end or just doing pistons/rods/cams and then doing the gt35r with ppgs?

i have 16k to spend on this to start me off....I want this build to go thru the winter and have things some what ready for a tune in say april/may time.....doesnt mean i have to have every single part at this very moment.....just the basics to get things started and the ball rolling...
look to spend about 7k on part's to make 500whp 500wtq on pump gas plus meth stock motor stock sti tranny 05 gears. all supporting mod's otherwise.
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Old 08-25-2007, 09:59 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bloopsta26 View Post

1.Cosworth cnc ported heads w/ springs/retainners
rods/cams/pistons/bearings/studs
2. Ultimate racing gt35r kit with 1000cc injector kit, along with dual walbros
3. axles and driveshaft

would that setup get me into the 10's?
first of all, the stock motor, axles, driveshaft will get you into the 10's. No need to change any of those items until they break, trust me on this one <------- coming from a guy that has owned dss axle bars, dss level 5 axles cv joints, and hubs. I launched my car 200+ times (stock axles/tranny) and never broke anything....install a triple disc clutch and broke everything. a simple act 6 puck unsprung is a great short-term match for the oem drivetrain. keep it simple, hard to beat a $500 clutch that will hold 500whp+ for a respectable amount of time.

skip cosworth, overrated imo. cant get much better than Axis racing, his results are text book. I would stick with an avcs cam setup, you'll have more options for em.

as far as the fuel setup make sure you have a nice fpr and fp gauge, one of the most important diagnostic gauges for big hp setups.



Quote:
Originally Posted by BALISTC View Post
If I was building a 600+awhp WRX, I'd spend the coin required to make it RELIABLE as well as fast.
600whp + reliable =

Quote:
Originally Posted by bloopsta26 View Post
But if i could get 550awhp and make it some what reliable then thats what ill do. Like 600 awhp would be cool but thats what id like to make not saying id see it at all.....i guess a setup to get me to see 10.5's and make it work decent.

If i did the gt35r with a pnp heads with pistons/rods/cams along with axles, 1200cc injectors, rebuild my trans and get some suspension work along with some drs along with my utec and other mods would 10.5's be do-able?

if i was pushing 600 awhp would the drivetrain be able to handle it? im running a stage 2 exady clutch?

i have 16k to spend on this to start me off....I want this build to go thru the winter and have things some what ready for a tune in say april/may time.....doesnt mean i have to have every single part at this very moment.....just the basics to get things started and the ball rolling...
dude, i wish you would trust me . 550whp on the stocker is doable, and reliable as long as you have a great tune+c16. If you plan on doing a longterm build (finished by next spring) then start with a UR 35r kit+stock motor and start having fun immediately. keep your money readily available to replace things as they break. You just might be content with 35r/c16 power, sure would be nice to find out before you jump with 2 feet into "no return" land.

as far as the ppg dogbox goes, it will definitely lower et's. it is probably a better bang for the buck over a engine+monster turbo build. however, the dogbox is not a "friendly" gearbox. no doubt it's cool, and i love mine, but the car is officially a race car once the straight cut gears are installed.

Last edited by burnin4; 08-25-2007 at 10:07 PM.
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Old 08-25-2007, 11:22 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burnin4 View Post
...600whp + reliable =
Awww, common' Burnin. That's what, only about 5bhp/cu.in...sheesh, that should be good for at least 200K miles, no problemo.
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Old 08-25-2007, 11:24 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flycaster View Post
Awww, common' Burnin. That's what, only about 5bhp/cu.in...sheesh, that should be good for at least 200K miles, no problemo.
what you guys are forgetting is a 600whp is only stressed that hard when its on race gas. That isn't really that common...now consider its pump gas map of only 400-450 whp...now it isn't so strained and can be quite reliable...
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Old 08-26-2007, 12:45 AM   #46
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These Australian/NZ guys just do things so much differently. I love it. They know how to do things over there. All that Motec stuff is crazy cool.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BALISTC View Post
If I was building a 600+awhp WRX, I'd spend the coin required to make it RELIABLE as well as fast. If I couldn't afford a reliable 600HP setup, I simply wouldn't do it.

Having seen for myself what it takes to make 600+awhp, this is what I'd do.

1. Cosworth crate long motor.....get Cosworth to sleeve and torque plate hone the block also (I've been told they can do this if you ask nicely, for a price of course).

2. Full-Race GT40R twin scroll kit.

3. MoTeC M800 ECU with v3.4 software, PID and advanced functions. Nothing less.

4. Beef up cooling, fuel and oiling system accordingly. These support options really add cost to the setup, but help with reliability.

5. PPG 1-5 dog box, Cusco twin plate, Cusco F/C/R diffs. Bosch load cell sensor configured with the MoTeC ECU to cut ignition and allow flat shift. You can make all the power in the world but you need to put it down to the ground too.
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Old 08-26-2007, 01:05 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homemade WRX View Post
what you guys are forgetting is a 600whp is only stressed that hard when its on race gas. That isn't really that common...now consider its pump gas map of only 400-450 whp...now it isn't so strained and can be quite reliable...
I didn't forget that - the OP clearly stated this was not a DD, it's a race/drag car, so I think it's safe to assume it will never see pump gas. Regardless, 600whp and "reliable" do not belong in the same sentence. All racing motors break - it's just a matter of when.

But I am slightly puzzled by your numbers: you honestly think a race gas vs. pump tune is worth 200whp? The most I've ever seen was about 75-80, and that was with a big snail.
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Old 08-26-2007, 02:13 AM   #48
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Would love to see another H6 build
EZ30R $1999

It's probably the best bet for your power goals and budget. As for reliability, Jeff Perrin DD'd his H6 for over a year and I heard he sold it to some guy in Cali who's been DD'ing it ever since.
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Old 08-26-2007, 02:51 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flycaster View Post
I didn't forget that - the OP clearly stated this was not a DD, it's a race/drag car, so I think it's safe to assume it will never see pump gas. Regardless, 600whp and "reliable" do not belong in the same sentence. All racing motors break - it's just a matter of when.

But I am slightly puzzled by your numbers: you honestly think a race gas vs. pump tune is worth 200whp? The most I've ever seen was about 75-80, and that was with a big snail.
depends on your differences...but yeah...a lot of people don't push there race gas maps to the fuels' limitation because of physical limitation of their motors. For instance, they don't have 14mm head studs, case bolts, o-ring'ed heads, inconel exhuast valves, etc and then have the balls to see what it can do.
when you go from 20 psi on pump (I'm looking to do 25-26 on 93+alky) to 38 psi on race gas (I'm looking at 40+ on c16+alky )...yeah, there is a lot of difference...
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Old 08-27-2007, 06:07 AM   #50
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been doing some thinking and more questions came to mind.

1. If i did run an axis motor which one? stage 5 or 6? with pnp heads and stage2 valvetrain?
2. what turbo would work best on a stage 5 reving to 9500 rpms on a stage 2 valvetrain...gt35 or a gt40
3. doing that should i use a blow thru maf?
4. dogbox will then put me in the doghouse? soo should i wait on the dogbox? til about mid winter
5. stock axles and driveshaft hold over 600+hp?
6. will my stage 2 exady hold and will i need hydra or could i use utec and get away with it..

I ask these questions as im trying to figuer out what will be the best for hp for longjevity....i do know that things will break but im trying to eliminate them before they happen...

I mean i can be cheap and just do pistons/rods/cams and a gt35r and leave it at that. But remember i do not want to just cheat this build and get away with every little short cut..
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