Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Saturday December 20, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC General > Proven Power Bragging

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-24-2007, 06:58 PM   #1
Dyno Flash
Vendor
 
Member#: 73568
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Stamford, CT
Vehicle:
'05 STI 11.1 @ 127
03 Evo 8 9.5 @ 149

Default 07 STi Limited - Stage II 93 pump gas

This was a Ecutek tuned 07 with Stage II and walbro pump

I am showing 3 of the final dyno pulls before we took it out on the street to road tune

The 07's are great cars

* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Dyno Flash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2007, 07:00 PM   #2
TopSpeed
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 78884
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Alpharetta, GA
Vehicle:
Go faster
at TopSpeed

Default

70 degrees, god how nice that must be. Today it was 103 in the shop here.

nice graph.


Doug
TopSpeed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2007, 07:19 PM   #3
ChrisSK
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 117464
Join Date: Jun 2006
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: New England
Vehicle:
->
2008 Hayabusa 1300R

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TopSpeed View Post
70 degrees, god how nice that must be. Today it was 103 in the shop here.

nice graph.


Doug
Well, do you tune at midnight? LOL.. I'm normally drooling on my pillow by that time.
ChrisSK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2007, 07:20 PM   #4
Dyno Flash
Vendor
 
Member#: 73568
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Stamford, CT
Vehicle:
'05 STI 11.1 @ 127
03 Evo 8 9.5 @ 149

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TopSpeed View Post
70 degrees, god how nice that must be. Today it was 103 in the shop here.

nice graph.


Doug

Doug - good to hear from you, it sure is warm in hotlanta but its a wondeful place - wish I could make the NOPI nationals this year but I am way too busy

AL
Dyno Flash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2007, 07:22 PM   #5
Dyno Flash
Vendor
 
Member#: 73568
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Stamford, CT
Vehicle:
'05 STI 11.1 @ 127
03 Evo 8 9.5 @ 149

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by XX_Chris View Post
Well, do you tune at midnight? LOL.. I'm normally drooling on my pillow by that time.
Its been a very busy week getting ready for the WRX vs Evo race and I have been working nearly 16 hour days

I will catch up on sleep next week
Dyno Flash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2007, 07:23 PM   #6
ChrisSK
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 117464
Join Date: Jun 2006
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: New England
Vehicle:
->
2008 Hayabusa 1300R

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyno Flash View Post
Its been a very busy week getting ready for the WRX vs Evo race and I have been working nearly 16 hour days

I will catch up on sleep next week
I think all the northeast shops have been busy.. We were here till 3am last night, and it looks like another all nighter tonight. Evo's and MBC's... oh my!

Everybody is getting their race gas tunes this week, at first I forgot about the shootout and was wondering what was going on..
ChrisSK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2007, 12:24 AM   #7
Remnex
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 83790
Join Date: Mar 2005
Default

How come it is so rich after 5k? Was it knocking?
Remnex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2007, 01:06 AM   #8
IMPORTEDCARS
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 56945
Join Date: Mar 2004
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: CT
Vehicle:
08 STI Base Model
Black

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Remnex View Post
How come it is so rich after 5k? Was it knocking?
No it was not knocking.. as we all know all cars that come off the dyno will tend to lean out abit on the street.

-George
IMPORTEDCARS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2007, 10:14 AM   #9
mywifesSTi
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 142709
Join Date: Mar 2007
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: CT
Vehicle:
07 STi Limited
FP HTA Green 372whp

Default

Al, how much boost did u tune this car to? I assume since you posted stage II he has just a TBE? Another nice looking graph.

Bruce
mywifesSTi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2007, 02:32 PM   #10
AZScoobie
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 8785
Join Date: Jul 2001
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Vehicle:
02 c_turner@ix.
netcom.com

Default

The red run is the last one. Run 65. Its 10 to 1 at 5500 rpm to 6000 rpm. Its getting richer and richer as it got hotter and hotter. Why not take the 2 minutes to fix that? I you look at the graph closely this is effecting power. I am sure you will just claim I am "self promoting" LOL...



Clark
AZScoobie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2007, 03:52 PM   #11
Equilibrium Tuning
Former Vendor
 
Member#: 26933
Join Date: Oct 2002
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: Fairfield, CA
Vehicle:
2006 STI
CGM

Default

I've always wondered... I know most dyno tuners take the cars out for a brief tune on the road after the dyno work. Have you guys ever put the cars back on the dyno after the road session to see what the changes do to your curves?

-- Ed
Equilibrium Tuning is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2007, 05:32 PM   #12
jetskibucky
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 136694
Join Date: Jan 2007
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Orange County, SoCAL
Vehicle:
07 STI LimitD #242
SPW Stage 2+

Default

Nice numbers. My 07 Limited did similar with a simple stage 2 on crappy 91 octane pump gas. Oh, I was running Cobb AP too. Congradulations!
jetskibucky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2007, 10:19 PM   #13
IMPORTEDCARS
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 56945
Join Date: Mar 2004
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: CT
Vehicle:
08 STI Base Model
Black

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mywifesSTi View Post
Al, how much boost did u tune this car to? I assume since you posted stage II he has just a TBE? Another nice looking graph.

Bruce
!.3 Bar 19 psi, and this car has a catted downpipe.

-George
IMPORTEDCARS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2007, 10:23 PM   #14
IMPORTEDCARS
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 56945
Join Date: Mar 2004
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: CT
Vehicle:
08 STI Base Model
Black

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AZScoobie View Post
The red run is the last one. Run 65. Its 10 to 1 at 5500 rpm to 6000 rpm. Its getting richer and richer as it got hotter and hotter. Why not take the 2 minutes to fix that? I you look at the graph closely this is effecting power. I am sure you will just claim I am "self promoting" LOL...



Clark
Clark thank you for your concern... the car runs flawlessly.. it was taken out on the road and logged, if I showed you the graph from the previous tuner you would LOL fall off your chair and brake a leg or an arm or maybe both.

-George
IMPORTEDCARS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2007, 11:01 PM   #15
GTS Jeff
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 120262
Join Date: Jul 2006
Chapter/Region: W. Canada
Location: Calgary, Canada
Vehicle:
09 WRX
Lightning Red

Default

Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaammmmn that's nice.
GTS Jeff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2007, 12:51 AM   #16
Boxer112
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 78751
Join Date: Jan 2005
Chapter/Region: International
Location: Manama, Bahrain (from NY)
Vehicle:
2015 WRX STi
Crystal White Pearl

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaus View Post
I've always wondered... I know most dyno tuners take the cars out for a brief tune on the road after the dyno work. Have you guys ever put the cars back on the dyno after the road session to see what the changes do to your curves?

-- Ed
thats a good question
Boxer112 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2007, 02:02 AM   #17
Dyno Flash
Vendor
 
Member#: 73568
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Stamford, CT
Vehicle:
'05 STI 11.1 @ 127
03 Evo 8 9.5 @ 149

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaus View Post
I've always wondered... I know most dyno tuners take the cars out for a brief tune on the road after the dyno work. Have you guys ever put the cars back on the dyno after the road session to see what the changes do to your curves?

-- Ed
I do not

In most cases the tunes are spot on when they leave the dyno and only minor adjustments are needed for boost level or to fine tune the a/f and timing maps. Thekind of changes I am making are only to take into account any effect real world operating has on the settings and to double check the work already done on the dyno.

The way I see it - the dyno is a tool that simulates real world operating conditions and quantifies losses and gains in power. A dyno is to get the tuner very close and the road is the place to test the tune as that is where you drive it.

Al
Dyno Flash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2007, 06:46 AM   #18
Equilibrium Tuning
Former Vendor
 
Member#: 26933
Join Date: Oct 2002
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: Fairfield, CA
Vehicle:
2006 STI
CGM

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyno Flash View Post
I do not

In most cases the tunes are spot on when they leave the dyno and only minor adjustments are needed for boost level or to fine tune the a/f and timing maps. Thekind of changes I am making are only to take into account any effect real world operating has on the settings and to double check the work already done on the dyno.

The way I see it - the dyno is a tool that simulates real world operating conditions and quantifies losses and gains in power. A dyno is to get the tuner very close and the road is the place to test the tune as that is where you drive it.

Al
I realize the fine tuning that goes on on the road is relatively minor, but the main reason I ask is because I've seen many dyno only tunes fall apart after a period of actual driving with quick throttle changes and hard shifting. Once the ECU learns to pull timing in response to such conditions that were not tuned for, the resulting curves look nothing like the original "tuned" curve. Often times overall power levels will be diminished as well.

-- Ed
Equilibrium Tuning is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2007, 01:29 PM   #19
Dyno Flash
Vendor
 
Member#: 73568
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Stamford, CT
Vehicle:
'05 STI 11.1 @ 127
03 Evo 8 9.5 @ 149

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaus View Post
I realize the fine tuning that goes on on the road is relatively minor, but the main reason I ask is because I've seen many dyno only tunes fall apart after a period of actual driving with quick throttle changes and hard shifting. Once the ECU learns to pull timing in response to such conditions that were not tuned for, the resulting curves look nothing like the original "tuned" curve. Often times overall power levels will be diminished as well.

-- Ed
As you must know the purpose of the road testing an road tuning part of the tune is to make sure that things like what you are describing do not occur. Since I have been doing this for a while it is very rare that a car I tune on the dyno starts to exhibit "falling apart" as you descirbe.

I have a whole range of data logging options including a simulated road dyno application as you have to check and re-check that the ecu is doing exactly what it is supposed to do.

Since the customer drives the car on the road and not the dyno it would seem more important that it runs perfectly on the road. I have found in all cases that a car which runs well on the road will run well on our dyno.

I think I will test that out a couple of times in the upcomming weeks just for fun.


That is my answer.

Onto a new subject, the biggest problem I have found in my extensive tuning travels has been dynos which do not load the car similar to the road. When you have an unfamilar dyno and or a dyno that is not configured properly and which does not load the car in a similar fashion to how it is loaded in real world operating conditions - the dyno results and tunes can be almost useless.

Since the dyno I am now using a 424 X Dyno Jet which provides a very accurate replication of real world conditions and also becuase I am very familar with how to set the a/f and boost levels on this dyno to match real world conditions 100% I am very confident in the accurancy of the results.

I think that in my case carefully testing and maping the car with the Dyno Jet and then test driving the car and readjusting the maps on the road as needed and indicated gives the customers the benefit of having a dyno verified result and also a car which is tested to work well on the road.

Although the entire process takes a lot of time and effort it is the only way to do the job properly IMHO.
Dyno Flash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2007, 01:30 PM   #20
AZScoobie
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 8785
Join Date: Jul 2001
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Vehicle:
02 c_turner@ix.
netcom.com

Default

If the dyno operator uses the dyno correctly there is no tuning needed on the road. Dynos like the dyno jet which have no load control will always need further adjustment on the road. My tunes do no change. This is due to my experience level. Most of the time if there is a problem down the road I will find out that a part has changed or there is a mechanical issue with the car. Dynso with Eddy load current generators can provide the load of real world and far beyond.

Al is using a Dynojet which has No load generators. Only the weight of the rollers. He cant foot brake to spot load it because there is no mechanical link between the rollers. If he did there would be a run on Center diffs down at the subaru dealer. He cant hit the dyno brake as it is not rated for that and will burn up in short order (its designed only to stop the rollers after a run). As a result he must fine tune the car on the road after the run just as I do when I use a dyno jet.



Clark
AZScoobie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2007, 02:49 PM   #21
bgod
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 100274
Join Date: Nov 2005
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyno Flash View Post
I do not

In most cases the tunes are spot on when they leave the dyno and only minor adjustments are needed for boost level or to fine tune the a/f and timing maps. Thekind of changes I am making are only to take into account any effect real world operating has on the settings and to double check the work already done on the dyno.

The way I see it - the dyno is a tool that simulates real world operating conditions and quantifies losses and gains in power. A dyno is to get the tuner very close and the road is the place to test the tune as that is where you drive it.

Al


I would say "In most cases" really applies.

I've been reading all these posts lately by tuners with AL in the middle of many of the disputes.

Needless to say AL tuned my car twice in a period of a month and a half. My speed limiter was no removed as requested by myself more then a few times. Unfortunately I realized this on the Salt Flats in Wendover, UT where I really needed it. Dead spot in the tune from 2500rpm to 3000rpm where the car threw me forward at part throttle. 5,000 miles later I have 95psi and 35psi in two of my cylinders.

How is that for one of AL's many returning and satisfied customers?????
bgod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2007, 09:27 AM   #22
fasterthanurwrx
*** Banned ***
 
Member#: 82734
Join Date: Mar 2005
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by IMPORTEDCARS View Post
the car runs flawlessly..

65 Fricken pulls for a Stage 2 Car ??!!


That car better run flawlessly.
fasterthanurwrx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2007, 10:32 AM   #23
IMPORTEDCARS
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 56945
Join Date: Mar 2004
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: CT
Vehicle:
08 STI Base Model
Black

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fasterthanurwrx View Post

65 Fricken pulls for a Stage 2 Car ??!!


That car better run flawlessly.
Fasterthanuwrx that was the dyno day folder from a few weeks ago. The pulls were made in a different folder (TNT's Mistake AKA Angel) he is learning how to operate the dyno. Al made MAYBE 6 pulls @ the very most. The car came in with a UTEC and a MBC and was removed for an Ecutek tune, we made more power with 3 less lbs of boost and a MUCH safer AFR!!!! Bottom line the customer is very pleased. I dont know you im not here to pick a fight although I must say, people here on Nasioc that look to attack and not provide the board with ANY usefull information should stay off or open up there own forum to polute it. Again this is my 02 cents and not an attack.

-George
IMPORTEDCARS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2007, 10:51 AM   #24
fasterthanurwrx
*** Banned ***
 
Member#: 82734
Join Date: Mar 2005
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by IMPORTEDCARS View Post
The pulls were made in a different folder (TNT's Mistake AKA Angel) he is learning how to operate the dyno.
Commenting on a dyno sheet that shows 65 pulls for a Stage 2 car is kinda usefull, and should be talked about.

Thanks for clearing that up.
fasterthanurwrx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2007, 11:29 AM   #25
IMPORTEDCARS
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 56945
Join Date: Mar 2004
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: CT
Vehicle:
08 STI Base Model
Black

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fasterthanurwrx View Post
Commenting on a dyno sheet that shows 65 pulls for a Stage 2 car is kinda usefull, and should be talked about.

Thanks for clearing that up.
No problem.

-George
IMPORTEDCARS is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Andrewtech and Turbo XS GT35R 07 STI Limited 430 pump race inside TAPOUT Proven Power Bragging 194 06-19-2008 07:05 PM
448 TQ P '07 STI Stage II with pump and Aquamist Dyno Flash Proven Power Bragging 149 05-07-2008 03:30 PM
05 STI Stage II 93 Pro Tune Dyno Results IMPORTEDCARS Proven Power Bragging 0 08-24-2007 11:17 PM
12.388 @109.69 18G on 93 pump gas w/ HYDRA CK02WRX Proven Power Bragging 51 11-10-2004 04:59 PM
Nitrous on 93 pump gas Big Turkey Water/Methanol Injection, Nitrous & Intercooler Cooling 7 01-19-2004 02:41 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:35 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.