07 STi Limited - Stage II 93 pump gas

[Dyno Flash]

This was a Ecutek tuned 07 with Stage II and walbro pump

I am showing 3 of the final dyno pulls before we took it out on the street to road tune

The 07's are great cars

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[TopSpeed]

70 degrees, god how nice that must be. Today it was 103 in the shop here.

nice graph.


Doug

[ChrisSK]

Originally Posted by TopSpeed

70 degrees, god how nice that must be. Today it was 103 in the shop here.

nice graph.


Doug

Well, do you tune at midnight? LOL.. I'm normally drooling on my pillow by that time.

[Dyno Flash]

Originally Posted by TopSpeed

70 degrees, god how nice that must be. Today it was 103 in the shop here.

nice graph.


Doug

Doug - good to hear from you, it sure is warm in hotlanta but its a wondeful place - wish I could make the NOPI nationals this year but I am way too busy

AL

[Dyno Flash]

Originally Posted by XX_Chris

Well, do you tune at midnight? LOL.. I'm normally drooling on my pillow by that time.

Its been a very busy week getting ready for the WRX vs Evo race and I have been working nearly 16 hour days

I will catch up on sleep next week

[ChrisSK]

Originally Posted by Dyno Flash

Its been a very busy week getting ready for the WRX vs Evo race and I have been working nearly 16 hour days

I will catch up on sleep next week

I think all the northeast shops have been busy.. We were here till 3am last night, and it looks like another all nighter tonight. Evo's and MBC's... oh my!

Everybody is getting their race gas tunes this week, at first I forgot about the shootout and was wondering what was going on..

[Remnex]

How come it is so rich after 5k? Was it knocking?

[IMPORTEDCARS]

Originally Posted by Remnex

How come it is so rich after 5k? Was it knocking?

No it was not knocking.. as we all know all cars that come off the dyno will tend to lean out abit on the street.

-George

[mywifesSTi]

Al, how much boost did u tune this car to? I assume since you posted stage II he has just a TBE? Another nice looking graph.

Bruce

[AZScoobie]

The red run is the last one. Run 65. Its 10 to 1 at 5500 rpm to 6000 rpm. Its getting richer and richer as it got hotter and hotter. Why not take the 2 minutes to fix that? I you look at the graph closely this is effecting power. I am sure you will just claim I am "self promoting" LOL...



Clark

[Equilibrium Tuning]

I've always wondered... I know most dyno tuners take the cars out for a brief tune on the road after the dyno work. Have you guys ever put the cars back on the dyno after the road session to see what the changes do to your curves?

-- Ed

[jetskibucky]

Nice numbers. My 07 Limited did similar with a simple stage 2 on crappy 91 octane pump gas. Oh, I was running Cobb AP too. Congradulations!

[IMPORTEDCARS]

Originally Posted by mywifesSTi

Al, how much boost did u tune this car to? I assume since you posted stage II he has just a TBE? Another nice looking graph.

Bruce

!.3 Bar 19 psi, and this car has a catted downpipe.

-George

[IMPORTEDCARS]

Originally Posted by AZScoobie

The red run is the last one. Run 65. Its 10 to 1 at 5500 rpm to 6000 rpm. Its getting richer and richer as it got hotter and hotter. Why not take the 2 minutes to fix that? I you look at the graph closely this is effecting power. I am sure you will just claim I am "self promoting" LOL...



Clark

Clark thank you for your concern... the car runs flawlessly.. it was taken out on the road and logged, if I showed you the graph from the previous tuner you would LOL fall off your chair and brake a leg or an arm or maybe both.

-George

[GTS Jeff]

Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaammmmn that's nice.

[Boxer112]

Originally Posted by Vaus

I've always wondered... I know most dyno tuners take the cars out for a brief tune on the road after the dyno work. Have you guys ever put the cars back on the dyno after the road session to see what the changes do to your curves?

-- Ed

thats a good question

[Dyno Flash]

Originally Posted by Vaus

I've always wondered... I know most dyno tuners take the cars out for a brief tune on the road after the dyno work. Have you guys ever put the cars back on the dyno after the road session to see what the changes do to your curves?

-- Ed

I do not

In most cases the tunes are spot on when they leave the dyno and only minor adjustments are needed for boost level or to fine tune the a/f and timing maps. Thekind of changes I am making are only to take into account any effect real world operating has on the settings and to double check the work already done on the dyno.

The way I see it - the dyno is a tool that simulates real world operating conditions and quantifies losses and gains in power. A dyno is to get the tuner very close and the road is the place to test the tune as that is where you drive it.

Al

[Equilibrium Tuning]

Originally Posted by Dyno Flash

I do not

In most cases the tunes are spot on when they leave the dyno and only minor adjustments are needed for boost level or to fine tune the a/f and timing maps. Thekind of changes I am making are only to take into account any effect real world operating has on the settings and to double check the work already done on the dyno.

The way I see it - the dyno is a tool that simulates real world operating conditions and quantifies losses and gains in power. A dyno is to get the tuner very close and the road is the place to test the tune as that is where you drive it.

Al

I realize the fine tuning that goes on on the road is relatively minor, but the main reason I ask is because I've seen many dyno only tunes fall apart after a period of actual driving with quick throttle changes and hard shifting. Once the ECU learns to pull timing in response to such conditions that were not tuned for, the resulting curves look nothing like the original "tuned" curve. Often times overall power levels will be diminished as well.

-- Ed

[Dyno Flash]

Originally Posted by Vaus

I realize the fine tuning that goes on on the road is relatively minor, but the main reason I ask is because I've seen many dyno only tunes fall apart after a period of actual driving with quick throttle changes and hard shifting. Once the ECU learns to pull timing in response to such conditions that were not tuned for, the resulting curves look nothing like the original "tuned" curve. Often times overall power levels will be diminished as well.

-- Ed

As you must know the purpose of the road testing an road tuning part of the tune is to make sure that things like what you are describing do not occur. Since I have been doing this for a while it is very rare that a car I tune on the dyno starts to exhibit "falling apart" as you descirbe.

I have a whole range of data logging options including a simulated road dyno application as you have to check and re-check that the ecu is doing exactly what it is supposed to do.

Since the customer drives the car on the road and not the dyno it would seem more important that it runs perfectly on the road. I have found in all cases that a car which runs well on the road will run well on our dyno.

I think I will test that out a couple of times in the upcomming weeks just for fun.


That is my answer.

Onto a new subject, the biggest problem I have found in my extensive tuning travels has been dynos which do not load the car similar to the road. When you have an unfamilar dyno and or a dyno that is not configured properly and which does not load the car in a similar fashion to how it is loaded in real world operating conditions - the dyno results and tunes can be almost useless.

Since the dyno I am now using a 424 X Dyno Jet which provides a very accurate replication of real world conditions and also becuase I am very familar with how to set the a/f and boost levels on this dyno to match real world conditions 100% I am very confident in the accurancy of the results.

I think that in my case carefully testing and maping the car with the Dyno Jet and then test driving the car and readjusting the maps on the road as needed and indicated gives the customers the benefit of having a dyno verified result and also a car which is tested to work well on the road.

Although the entire process takes a lot of time and effort it is the only way to do the job properly IMHO.

[AZScoobie]

If the dyno operator uses the dyno correctly there is no tuning needed on the road. Dynos like the dyno jet which have no load control will always need further adjustment on the road. My tunes do no change. This is due to my experience level. Most of the time if there is a problem down the road I will find out that a part has changed or there is a mechanical issue with the car. Dynso with Eddy load current generators can provide the load of real world and far beyond.

Al is using a Dynojet which has No load generators. Only the weight of the rollers. He cant foot brake to spot load it because there is no mechanical link between the rollers. If he did there would be a run on Center diffs down at the subaru dealer. He cant hit the dyno brake as it is not rated for that and will burn up in short order (its designed only to stop the rollers after a run). As a result he must fine tune the car on the road after the run just as I do when I use a dyno jet.



Clark

[bgod]

Originally Posted by Dyno Flash

I do not

In most cases the tunes are spot on when they leave the dyno and only minor adjustments are needed for boost level or to fine tune the a/f and timing maps. Thekind of changes I am making are only to take into account any effect real world operating has on the settings and to double check the work already done on the dyno.

The way I see it - the dyno is a tool that simulates real world operating conditions and quantifies losses and gains in power. A dyno is to get the tuner very close and the road is the place to test the tune as that is where you drive it.

Al

I would say "In most cases" really applies.

I've been reading all these posts lately by tuners with AL in the middle of many of the disputes.

Needless to say AL tuned my car twice in a period of a month and a half. My speed limiter was no removed as requested by myself more then a few times. Unfortunately I realized this on the Salt Flats in Wendover, UT where I really needed it. Dead spot in the tune from 2500rpm to 3000rpm where the car threw me forward at part throttle. 5,000 miles later I have 95psi and 35psi in two of my cylinders.

How is that for one of AL's many returning and satisfied customers?????

[fasterthanurwrx]

Originally Posted by IMPORTEDCARS

the car runs flawlessly..

65 Fricken pulls for a Stage 2 Car ??!!

That car better run flawlessly.

[IMPORTEDCARS]

Originally Posted by fasterthanurwrx

65 Fricken pulls for a Stage 2 Car ??!!

That car better run flawlessly.

Fasterthanuwrx that was the dyno day folder from a few weeks ago. The pulls were made in a different folder (TNT's Mistake AKA Angel) he is learning how to operate the dyno. Al made MAYBE 6 pulls @ the very most. The car came in with a UTEC and a MBC and was removed for an Ecutek tune, we made more power with 3 less lbs of boost and a MUCH safer AFR!!!! Bottom line the customer is very pleased. I dont know you im not here to pick a fight although I must say, people here on Nasioc that look to attack and not provide the board with ANY usefull information should stay off or open up there own forum to polute it. Again this is my 02 cents and not an attack.

-George

[fasterthanurwrx]

Originally Posted by IMPORTEDCARS

The pulls were made in a different folder (TNT's Mistake AKA Angel) he is learning how to operate the dyno.

Commenting on a dyno sheet that shows 65 pulls for a Stage 2 car is kinda usefull, and should be talked about.

Thanks for clearing that up.

[IMPORTEDCARS]

Originally Posted by fasterthanurwrx

Commenting on a dyno sheet that shows 65 pulls for a Stage 2 car is kinda usefull, and should be talked about.

Thanks for clearing that up.

No problem.

-George