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Old 10-04-2001, 06:40 PM   #1
alfriedesq
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Default Nirous installation comments and hints

Have been thinking of going with a custom 50 shot system from NOS that they have recomended for my set up . . . .

They gave me some nice ideas about installation and use

For instance they have a boost senstive switch t use the NOS only on the low end . . . to help the turbo spool and then cut off before you hit max boost - thereby your engine never goes over your max power out put . . .

also they calculated a approximate extra 15 hp just from the charge cooling effect of the 50 shot !

and they talked about installing the nossels in the intercooler rather than in the black hose between the intercooler and the throttle body

Anyone here who has NOS care to share any thoughts on the use and instalation of NOS in a WRX??????

(PS - I am doing this only to get ready for the guy from RI and TRI - I do not intend tio run NOS regularly - only when and if someone is able to beat me - then its a back up attack!)
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Old 10-04-2001, 07:12 PM   #2
Dori Dori
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If it went on before the turbo hit full boost, then cut off, I don't think it will do very much. From what I understand, n20 is not used during first gear...and after first, you should be at full boost w/ your turbo through every gear. Besides, you do a clutch dump launch anyway...so if your launching at full boost...shifting correctly...you shouldn't have a problem right? I don't really know though, just a guess.

PS- the cooling factor sounds great though...n20 isn't 'expensive' anyway; so give it a shot.

PSS- get it, 'give it a shot'.
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Old 10-04-2001, 07:16 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ant WRX
If it went on before the turbo hit full boost, then cut off, I don't think it will do very much. From what I understand, n20 is not used during first gear...and after first, you should be at full boost w/ your turbo through every gear. Besides, you do a clutch dump launch anyway...so if your launching at full boost...shifting correctly...you shouldn't have a problem right? I don't really know though, just a guess.

PS- the cooling factor sounds great though...n20 isn't 'expensive' anyway; so give it a shot.

PSS- get it, 'give it a shot'.
I am going to record the boost levels on my SBCid next time I run to see if the boost is dipping slightly on the shifts - which I think it is !!!!!!
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Old 10-04-2001, 08:15 PM   #4
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Mmmmmm....... all I gotta say is being a guinea pig for any kind of forced induction at some shop is a bad bad idea..... other than that N20 kicks ass, and I'm thinking about putting a little sumpin sumpin on my car (I plan to see how much it'll cost to get my engine up to speed to handle say a 200 shot or so) if it costs more than say a stage3 turbo that would do around the same amount of hp then forget it, but if it's cheaper i'm all for it!)

I dunno..... just becareful speed is fun, but only when you can actually drive your car... if it's got a blown piston the fun is gone

knowhatimean?
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Old 10-04-2001, 08:27 PM   #5
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This is not just some shop ... this is NOS the company..
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Old 10-04-2001, 11:06 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by Imprezd
This is not just some shop ... this is NOS the company..
Yes it was NOS and they are really cool - by far the most amazing company ever to deal with - first they spent almost 2 hours with me on the phone finding out about my car and my goals, answering all my crazy questions and giving me great ideas and then they offered to put together a custom kit for scratch . . . . and the whole thing is not that expensive !!!!

I'm just curious if any of the other NOS WRX users want to compare notes about the instalation process>>>>???
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Old 10-04-2001, 11:55 PM   #7
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well I am a fellow user, and have had it on my

64 Nova ran a 10.90
66 El Camino ran an 11.70
and my 2 mustangs 94, 01... ran high 12's only (daily driver)
and last but not least my wrx. I done every installation myself and lastly I have never blown a motor up ever.. well not yet at least.

what are some questions you are thinking about.
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Old 10-05-2001, 12:08 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by bottlefedwrx
well I am a fellow user, and have had it on my

64 Nova ran a 10.90
66 El Camino ran an 11.70
and my 2 mustangs 94, 01... ran high 12's only (daily driver)
and last but not least my wrx. I done every installation myself and lastly I have never blown a motor up ever.. well not yet at least.

what are some questions you are thinking about.
Where did you install the nossels - what kind of nossels did you use - - wher did you put the solinoids - how did you run the NOS hose from the bottle - etc etc etc!!!!
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Old 10-05-2001, 12:40 AM   #9
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Well with the Nitrous on my old cars its way different obviously being a plate system and a fogger system. but with the WRX and the newer Mustangs it was the nozzle type and I put it directly into the Air intake. On mine I put in the Hose about 6 inches from the throttle body. I only did that because of the 1 hour talk I had with ZEX saying they have tried it closer and farther but the spray pattern of the nossle wouldnt be correct any closer or farther from the throttle body.

I am using the 75 jets, and im telling you that you will probally be too. the 55 I really didnt feel and the 65 was good but the 75 were awesome. I squeeze right out of the whole and dont stop till about 105.. no pinging, nothing..

I ran the hose under my car for obvious reasons and is mounted in the trunk. I can still open it up from the back seat for those mustangs or vettes that I see around town.

What I like about NOS vs ZEX is that you really can mix and tune the jets more for your car, with ZEX its either 55 65 or 75 thats it. Umm what else, I always freeze my bottle before filling it up. gets an extra pound in the bottle and that first pass will be your fastest. I would definatly get a bottle blanket. I really gets those psi's up.. because after that first and second pass I see the psi drop down and I have to heat it up to get it to optimal conditions. I get about 8 passes from the bottle give or take.. you would get better because you wont be using it through all 4 gears.

Cant think of anything more, I am thinking of getting the purge kit so I can cool the intercooler, I just want to make sure I can keep my Nitrous a secret and not have a cloud of smoke come out. Wouldnt get to many races after that.
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Old 10-05-2001, 12:44 AM   #10
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tonight at our local 1/8th track there were a good number of N20 users and all but one had a good run without something going wrong.

Most of them had all show..no go! hehe.. Little spray on the staging area to woo the crowd and bam..an ok run.

It's downright cool looking though
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Old 10-05-2001, 12:52 AM   #11
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I know what you mean, at the track you see those big blocks with 250 shots and their the ones that blow up their motors. With our smaller units, I rarely see problems happening, thats 75 and under, because after 75 you have alot more modifications that should be done, and are rarely done till after its to late, such as retardation of timing, bigger fuel pump. beter gas, upgrade rods, pistons etc.. I go to the track and talk to the cars that are popping and not running right and I usually ask them why are they running so high of jets, why not the 100 hp or 150 and they all said they did that in the past and it ran bitching but they want more hp and they just got impatient so instead of upgrading the engine to allow for more Nitrous they just go for the quick fix and up the Hp and thats where the problems start.
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Old 10-05-2001, 01:06 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by bottlefedwrx
Well with the Nitrous on my old cars its way different obviously being a plate system and a fogger system. but with the WRX and the newer Mustangs it was the nozzle type and I put it directly into the Air intake. On mine I put in the Hose about 6 inches from the throttle body. I only did that because of the 1 hour talk I had with ZEX saying they have tried it closer and farther but the spray pattern of the nossle wouldnt be correct any closer or farther from the throttle body.

I am using the 75 jets, and im telling you that you will probally be too. the 55 I really didnt feel and the 65 was good but the 75 were awesome. I squeeze right out of the whole and dont stop till about 105.. no pinging, nothing..

I ran the hose under my car for obvious reasons and is mounted in the trunk. I can still open it up from the back seat for those mustangs or vettes that I see around town.

What I like about NOS vs ZEX is that you really can mix and tune the jets more for your car, with ZEX its either 55 65 or 75 thats it. Umm what else, I always freeze my bottle before filling it up. gets an extra pound in the bottle and that first pass will be your fastest. I would definatly get a bottle blanket. I really gets those psi's up.. because after that first and second pass I see the psi drop down and I have to heat it up to get it to optimal conditions. I get about 8 passes from the bottle give or take.. you would get better because you wont be using it through all 4 gears.

Cant think of anything more, I am thinking of getting the purge kit so I can cool the intercooler, I just want to make sure I can keep my Nitrous a secret and not have a cloud of smoke come out. Wouldnt get to many races after that.
If you dont mind telling where exactly did you intall the nosells on your car - in the i/c ?????? Thanks for all the 411!!!!!
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Old 10-05-2001, 01:19 AM   #13
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Alfriedesq:

I have very limited experience with nitrous so bear with me. I do know that you arenít going to want to run your nitrous through you intercooler though. Nitrous is incredibly cold there is no reason to intercool it further. I know when I install my setup in my Talon next week I am installing a wet kit and the jet is going in the throttle body elbow. I personally would only worry about a wot switch you donít want to spray at too low of an rpm. If you really wanted something special you could install a window switch that went between a certain rev range so it would only engage at a specified rpm and it would stop before you hit fuel cut so could save the motor. I donít think that the stock wrx turbo or even mildly upgraded turbos are large enough that it would justify a shot to spool it. However you could benefit tremendously from running the turbo slightly beyond its efficiency range then letting the nitrous cool the intake charge this is where you can get 65+ hp from only a 50 hp shot. If you are really concerned about losing boost between shifts I would suggest a 2 step msd ingnition. My friend has that on his awd Talon he uses it to build boost at the line and it also has a clutch cut feature that is a bit intimidating but its basically like powershifting without kicking the drivetrain in the jimmy so you may want to look into that. Anyway if my cams and bottle come in soon enough I may be racing with/against you at the Grove on the 21st regardless of whether or not I get to race I will certainty stop by to check the car out see you there.
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Old 10-05-2001, 02:06 AM   #14
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Quote:
However you could benefit tremendously from running the turbo slightly beyond its efficiency range
hehe... I don't think Al can push his 1820 out of its efficiency range... monster.
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Old 10-05-2001, 02:21 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by Austin
hehe... I don't think Al can push his 1820 out of its efficiency range... monster.
If i did I think it would be at least 475 - 500 HP - that would be sick! Can we say pistons exiting fenders???
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Old 10-05-2001, 02:30 AM   #16
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OMG, if you had 500hp, you'd never shut up! "I'm the fastest, I'm the fastest" all day long... hehehe, j/k
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Old 10-05-2001, 10:16 AM   #17
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If you are using it primarily for charge-cooling, then you may want to consider water injection - water (or alcohol if you are really sick is much cheaper than Nitrous and easier to refill. Plus you may have some trouble getting the nitrous to have the desired effect at lower rpm's. Also, water injection is a firaly well known quantity on the wrx, I am prety sure that someone sells a premade hose with the injector for the IC to throttle body. Snce you like to tinker, get the Aquamist System 2 and you can vary the spray with boost and RPM - you get a whole 3d map, or you can tinker less with the system 1 and get just a 2D map

Have fun.
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Old 10-05-2001, 11:06 AM   #18
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He has 331 or More and he never shuts up.... He is the faster till proven wrong....

Anyone want to come all the way from Cape Cod to see?

I am curious how much different you think running nitrous to his throttle body is than nitrous through the intercooler...

The combination of colder intake charge through the I/c and Nitrous being flown throttle the engine should yield more effective hp's.

I am just a rookie though... so what does my speculation matter.
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Old 10-05-2001, 05:01 PM   #19
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Well this is my first turbo car, and that is why I have waited till the very end to upgrade my turbo. I havnt changed my Intercooler either, never had one before. I put mine right before the throttle body, actually 6 inches before, thinking it will cool down the air right before it goes through the process of combustion, but with this intercooler in the game in confused when does the air go to the intercooler.. isnt it after combustion. I thought the intercooler cooled the air before the turbo and the turbo runs off exhaust so it would have to be after combustion. Im sure I dont have this theory right so jump in and help me out.

Can you have it both places, before the combustion to actually make the power gains and then at the intercooler to re-cool the spent air and make it more dense for the turbo. I dont know, now I confused myself. I would just put it in the intake, but have a purge valvue aimed at the intercooler so when you purge you can freeze it over. You still get the power, the sub-zero temps and the colder intercooler for the turbo.

Al, as you know I dont have my car right now, so I cant actually look to see where the nozzle is exactly. I do remeber in the stock air intake there is a 90 degree bend and we sat and thought should we do it before and make it really close or after and make the N20 go around the bend. ZEX said, that in that case there is so much flow that it would be fine and would just flow around the bend. I am going to experiment with moving the nozzle the the 90 degree bend and make sure they were right. I think it will be about 2-3 inches away then but it will be a more direct shot. Its been working fine but you never know till you try.
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Old 10-05-2001, 05:38 PM   #20
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the intercooler is between the turbo and the intake manifold. the air coming into the intercooler has been heated by compressing it through the turbo charger. this is not cumbusted(?) air as that is called exhaust. the intercooler takes the heat from the compressed fresh air to make it more dense therby helping to increase power. injecting nitrous in or before the intercooler may help power output by further decreasing intake air temp as well as helping with any intercooler heatsoak.
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Old 10-05-2001, 07:51 PM   #21
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You don't want to place the nitrous nozzle (fogger) between the turbo and intercooler (in front of the intercooler), especially not if you run a wet kit. As the nitrous discharges from the nozzle, it turns from a liquid to a gas. This phase state change drops the temperature of the nitrous oxide to levels below freezing. It can actually give you frostbite if you spray it against your skin. Since the nitrous is so cold as it sprays, it cools the intake charge significantly. If you sprayed dry nitrous before the intercooler, it would basically make the intercooler less effective, since the ambient temp through the intercooler face would be closer to the internal air charge temp through the intercooler. If you sprayed wet nitrous before the intercooler, some portion of the liquid fuel exiting the fogger nozzle would hang up inside the intercooler core. This basically would be a bomb waiting for a nitrous backfire to occur. As soon as a nitrous backfire occured, your intercooler core would turn itself inside out. I've seen heavy cast aluminum intake manifolds on 5.0 Mustangs explode into 12-15 seperate pieces, so imagine what a thin aluminum sheetmetal intercooler would look like.

I would place a single fogger nozzle in between the throttle body and the intercooler. I would also run an arming switch, a window switch, and a wide open throttle switch. Wire the switches in series. First you arm the system. Next, when the WOT switch closes, it sends the control signal to the window switch. Once the window switch reads that the engine RPM is at the desired minimum speed, it also closes, and the nitrous solenoids fire. If you wanted a boost switch also, you could wire that in series as well with the other three switches. Don't spray the nitrous at too low of an engine speed. That's how people bend connecting rods. I wouldn' spray it less than 3500 RPM. Have the window switch turn on at 3500 RPM, and turn off several hundred RPM before the rev limiter and/or fuel cutoff. Redundant fail safes are a good idea when running nitrous. Otherwise, when things go bad, there's no such thing as a small nitrous explosion.

For the fuel supply, it depends. If you plan on running a dry kit (if WRX's have a return type fuel system) then you will need some sort of inline pump to increase fuel pressure when on the bottle. If you run a wet kit, I personally would run a second fuel system specifically for the nitrous. Install a small fuel cell in the back of the car somewhere. Run seperate fuel lines to the nitrous fuel nozzle from the second fuel cell. You will need a second pump, fuel pressure regulator, and lines to do this. It's not cheap, but it's my preferred way of doing things. The reason I like to do this, is because when I want to spray the car, I can have 93 octane in the gas tank, and 110 octane race gas in the second fuel cell. With race gas you won't need any timing retard while on the bottle. Otherwise, the safe rule of thumb is 2 degrees of timing retard for every 50 hp of nitrous oxide. For a firced induction engine you might want to pull a little more timing just to be safe. If the engine is Ok, you can incrementally put more timing back in it via trial and error.

Ayway, hope this helps. I've been running lots of nitrous in Mustangs for a long time. Both single and multiple stages. Let me know if you need any specific info.
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Old 10-05-2001, 08:04 PM   #22
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so NOS recommendation of where to put the nitrous is wrong
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Old 10-05-2001, 09:46 PM   #23
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A second fuel cell good night that sounds like a pain in the ass.... (as well as expensive) but it also sounds like a pretty good idea rather than doing a timing retard.... if you want something done right you gotta spare no expsense... I'll look into this, see if it's worth it.....

Already planning on getting a bottle heater, carbon fiber bottle, window switch and a purge kit.... with some engine upgrades to hold maybe a 100 to 200hp shot 110octane secondary fuel cell sounds like a good idea as well....

Only thing I'm worried about is if the bottle leaks... since I got a wagon there's no closed in space (like a trunk) to house the bottle, so if it does leak and I don't know it I'll be sucking on hydrogen sulfide till I get seriously ill..... and I really don't feel like dying for a few hundred more ponies...... anyone got any suggestions?
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Old 10-06-2001, 02:13 AM   #24
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Putting the nitrous kit on my car was very straight forward, i went with the wet kit from NOS. I installed the injectors between the intercooler and throttle body. I used a micro switch to kick on at full wot, but i plan on changing to a shifter mounted button so i can control when it kicks on. NOS recommended not running it through the intercooler.
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Old 10-06-2001, 11:53 AM   #25
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You can't run the N02 threw the intercooler because it will mess up the atomization of the air/fuel. I think it causes a puddling effect of the fuel.

On my Supra I installed the N02 after the intercooler right before the throttle body, about 4-6 inches before it. This is what NOS recommended to me. You dont want it to close to the throttle body, nor to far away.

I wonder if you could do a direct port setup, now that would be bad ass.

Greg
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