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Old 09-04-2007, 12:06 AM   #1
Dyno Flash
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Default ICS Project '07 STI - new mods - EBC and TGV deletes

We are continuing to massage the power delivery on our '07 STI and try to make it have more of a drag racuing power band - we are tryting to stay with the stock turbo and stock tmic and see how fast we can go with the new configuration

Mods were

AP 2 tuned by Dyno Flash
APS Cold air intake
APS 3.5" exhuast and upipe
Walbro fuel pump
Aquamist HFS-5 50/50 water - meth

We just added

APS TGV deletes
E boost 2 EBC


Note in the dyno sheet the spool up looks a lot later due to a different starting point on the dyno and also due to the change from a MBC to a EBC.


With the new mods and some more refined tuning the car picked up opver 30 whop in the meat of the drag racing power band - should be intreresting to see how that top end power equates on the track





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Old 09-04-2007, 07:20 AM   #2
IMPORTEDCARS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyno Flash View Post
We are continuing to massage the power delivery on our '07 STI and try to make it have more of a drag racuing power band - we are tryting to stay with the stock turbo and stock tmic and see how fast we can go with the new configuration

Mods were

AP 2 tuned by Dyno Flash
APS Cold air intake
APS 3.5" exhuast and upipe
Walbro fuel pump
Aquamist HFS-5 50/50 water - meth

We just added

APS TGV deletes
E boost 2 EBC


Note in the dyno sheet the spool up looks a lot later due to a different starting point on the dyno and also due to the change from a MBC to a EBC.


With the new mods and some more refined tuning the car picked up opver 30 whop in the meat of the drag racing power band - should be intreresting to see how that top end power equates on the track







We made the best of 340whp, but the eliptical moved and it didn't pick up RPM (Tourque) and besides the cops almost gave me another ticket for running the dyno late again. lol

-George
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Old 09-04-2007, 10:22 AM   #3
Dyno Flash
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I am very curious to see how far we can get with the stock turbo and fmic.

The car is a very potent street driver at this point - I have some videos I am going to throw up on youtube later this evening

Al
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Old 09-04-2007, 10:25 AM   #4
bren wrx
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Looks to me like holding the gate shut with the EBC along with possibly more top end advance/leaner AFR gave you some redline gains at the expense of quick MBC spool up. Both lines start at the same time. Probably good for another MPH.
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Old 09-04-2007, 11:23 AM   #5
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nice!
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Old 09-04-2007, 11:45 AM   #6
Dyno Flash
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Originally Posted by bren wrx View Post
Looks to me like holding the gate shut with the EBC along with possibly more top end advance/leaner AFR gave you some redline gains at the expense of quick MBC spool up. Both lines start at the same time. Probably good for another MPH.
When we went out on the road we adjusted the sensitivity and gate settings on the E Boost which may have restored much of the MBC type initial spool up. It will be interesting to see what effect those adjustments have on the dyno when we do the next round of mods.

Also - it will be interesting to see how much the 30 additional whp in the higher rpm range nets us on the track where most of the action is at high rpms. I would hope it is more than one mph -but - we will be testing it to find out.

The EBC is not set with a rpm dependant gain adjustment yet - but it is holding one (1) psi more boost at red line 15.7 psi vs 14.7 with the MBC. We may try to dial in some rpm based gain up top and see if it nets us any additional power trying to force the turbo to 17 psi or so (it may be just hot air at that point). When I was experimenting with the stock turbo on my '05 STI after I got a EWG and the E Boost I quickly threw the stock turbo in the trash after I started making less power with more top end boost. There seems to be a sweet spot with the stock turbos.

One more thing we are going to try is instaling a small water jet near the turbo discharge to help with cooling the intake charge, I feel the stock tmic is really working double time.

Al
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Old 09-04-2007, 11:54 AM   #7
bren wrx
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Your right, there becomes a point where the stock snail is happy boost wise and leaner afr and more timing advance is the only way to make more gains up top. Good luck finding that i remember your previous air fuel had some room in it.

Are you talking pre turbo injection? its a great idea i think. or maybe a boost/rpm dependent IC water spray like the jdm model ecus
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Old 09-04-2007, 12:10 PM   #8
xXSTi-lynXx
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i know this ics car is going to be awsome ive seen their work with bmw m3s and they coaxed 1000hp out of an S52 e 36. so whos the suby master @ ICS
George or Vic ??
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Old 09-04-2007, 12:16 PM   #9
Dyno Flash
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i know this ics car is going to be awsome ive seen their work with bmw m3s and they coaxed 1000hp out of an S52 e 36. so whos the suby master @ ICS
George or Vic ??
George is the owner and guy with the '07 WRB STI

I am the tuner and guy with the '05 WRB STI - (UR GT35R Kit)

My car has been on the back burner for a couple of weeks but it will be comming out to play very shortly !
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Old 09-04-2007, 12:21 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by bren wrx View Post
Your right, there becomes a point where the stock snail is happy boost wise and leaner afr and more timing advance is the only way to make more gains up top. Good luck finding that i remember your previous air fuel had some room in it.

Are you talking pre turbo injection? its a great idea i think. or maybe a boost/rpm dependent IC water spray like the jdm model ecus
With the EWG on my '05 after a certain point as we closed the EWG and forced the boost higher the power would go down - kind of like sticking a cork in it. We found that the ideal point was achived with the gate open significantly to allow additional exhuast flow around the restrictively small turbine wheel. The turbine wheel is actually so small that it can create a significant amount of back pressure in the manifold which starts to really kill power.

What I really like about the '07 Project is that the car thus far retains true stock like driveability and feel as far as smoothness and over all power band. We are trying to maximize the power potential with the stock turbo as we feel most customers stay with a Stage II modification level and most of our customer's cars do not get upgraded turbos. I feel the '07 in particular has a lot of potential on the stock turbo.

Al
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Old 09-04-2007, 12:22 PM   #11
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All how much more hp would a fmic, external wastegate and ported/aftermarket header add?
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Old 09-04-2007, 12:51 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyno Flash View Post
With the EWG on my '05 after a certain point as we closed the EWG and forced the boost higher the power would go down - kind of like sticking a cork in it. We found that the ideal point was achived with the gate open significantly to allow additional exhuast flow around the restrictively small turbine wheel. The turbine wheel is actually so small that it can create a significant amount of back pressure in the manifold which starts to really kill power.

What I really like about the '07 Project is that the car thus far retains true stock like driveability and feel as far as smoothness and over all power band. We are trying to maximize the power potential with the stock turbo as we feel most customers stay with a Stage II modification level and most of our customer's cars do not get upgraded turbos. I feel the '07 in particular has a lot of potential on the stock turbo.

Al

Al, I wish you luck with your stg 2 project and hope to see you at the track some day soon. With this being said, I am feeling a strong sense of friendly competition. My personal goals for this car are 11.6-11.7 @113+ with an exhaust, tune, and pump. I am taking this car to the absolute limits before putting another penny into it
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Old 09-04-2007, 12:56 PM   #13
bren wrx
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brentuning.com/blog

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyno Flash View Post
With the EWG on my '05 after a certain point as we closed the EWG and forced the boost higher the power would go down - kind of like sticking a cork in it. We found that the ideal point was achived with the gate open significantly to allow additional exhuast flow around the restrictively small turbine wheel. The turbine wheel is actually so small that it can create a significant amount of back pressure in the manifold which starts to really kill power.

What I really like about the '07 Project is that the car thus far retains true stock like driveability and feel as far as smoothness and over all power band. We are trying to maximize the power potential with the stock turbo as we feel most customers stay with a Stage II modification level and most of our customer's cars do not get upgraded turbos. I feel the '07 in particular has a lot of potential on the stock turbo.

Al

Al I would like a continued neutral opinion mod for mod dyno comparison like Buscher did with the 06.....uppipe addition, cai addition etc like you are doing now. This is what the community really needs. Not just a bunch of people self promoting their own parts.
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Old 09-04-2007, 03:14 PM   #14
IMPORTEDCARS
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Originally Posted by bren wrx View Post
Al I would like a continued neutral opinion mod for mod dyno comparison like Buscher did with the 06.....uppipe addition, cai addition etc like you are doing now. This is what the community really needs. Not just a bunch of people self promoting their own parts.
I appreciate your feedback

I really enjoy the opportunity to have a project car to work on and a shop owner willing to make things happen as far as doing installs on the car and allowing me lots of dyno time to do R & D. This kind of testing and development is very useful and I find it is of huge benefit.

My very next step on this car is going to be a A - B header test with the current mods we have now - I am curious to see what power gains if any are made with a generic 4 - 1 header and also to see what effect a header would have on the power band

Al on ICS cpu
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Old 09-04-2007, 03:16 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STi Mikey View Post
Al, I wish you luck with your stg 2 project and hope to see you at the track some day soon. With this being said, I am feeling a strong sense of friendly competition. My personal goals for this car are 11.6-11.7 @113+ with an exhaust, tune, and pump. I am taking this car to the absolute limits before putting another penny into it
I am veryt pleased to see you in a '07 STI and I feel you will see that there is a lot of room for power and speed in this platform on a limited budget.

This machine is the real Evo fighter of the STI's and I think by next year there will be many of them in the 11 second range on the stock turbo.

Al
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Old 09-04-2007, 03:40 PM   #16
bren wrx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IMPORTEDCARS View Post
I appreciate your feedback

I really enjoy the opportunity to have a project car to work on and a shop owner willing to make things happen as far as doing installs on the car and allowing me lots of dyno time to do R & D. This kind of testing and development is very useful and I find it is of huge benefit.

My very next step on this car is going to be a A - B header test with the current mods we have now - I am curious to see what power gains if any are made with a generic 4 - 1 header and also to see what effect a header would have on the power band

Al on ICS cpu
all the local bolt on parts would be great, header/EWG/inlet/FP/race gas.

Looks like you and George already have it covered - look forward to the future udpates
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Old 09-04-2007, 03:51 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by IMPORTEDCARS View Post
I appreciate your feedback

I really enjoy the opportunity to have a project car to work on and a shop owner willing to make things happen as far as doing installs on the car and allowing me lots of dyno time to do R & D. This kind of testing and development is very useful and I find it is of huge benefit.

My very next step on this car is going to be a A - B header test with the current mods we have now - I am curious to see what power gains if any are made with a generic 4 - 1 header and also to see what effect a header would have on the power band

Al on ICS cpu
great to hear. Keep toying with the idea of headers. Concerned with noise mostly. can't wait to see those results! off to montreal soon guys!
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Old 09-04-2007, 10:22 PM   #18
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We just finished another swap w/ an 07 Limited STi drive train over here at ECS. Its in a 00 Imp Wagon. Unfortunately, its no longer on stock turbo, or i would love to be in on this fun. The owner chose a green, its going to be tuned Friday, if you want ill chime in w/ the results.
-Paul @ ECS
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Old 09-04-2007, 11:52 PM   #19
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^that sounds sick..... but al, those numbers, and that vid on youtube might just have me make the trip to see you sooner than i thought... great work, Id like to know how it is after 10k or so miles on that tune... I want my car to be fast and actually last...
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Old 09-05-2007, 12:07 AM   #20
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We just finished another swap w/ an 07 Limited STi drive train over here at ECS. Its in a 00 Imp Wagon. Unfortunately, its no longer on stock turbo, or i would love to be in on this fun. The owner chose a green, its going to be tuned Friday, if you want ill chime in w/ the results.
-Paul @ ECS
I just tuned one of your customers who had a RS swap with a 2006 WRX power train. It was a very good install and the tune was really a pleasure as everything was well sorted - kudos for great work.
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Old 09-05-2007, 12:14 AM   #21
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^that sounds sick..... but al, those numbers, and that vid on youtube might just have me make the trip to see you sooner than i thought... great work, Id like to know how it is after 10k or so miles on that tune... I want my car to be fast and actually last...
The main point to remember is that on this project I don't tune in a careless manner or a dangerous manner but the tuning is on the agressive side. I would probably like to see a customer who expects to daily drive his car and have it last a long time with a slightly more conservative style of tuning say at 7 - 8 less whp than where this car is at to provide a greater margin of error for a bad tank of gas and climatic changes.

I feel these numbers are representative of what a customer can expect from a similar set up within 10 whp.

When you use your car as a form of basic transportation it is always more prudent to err on the side of safe and cautious - that is my approach.

However, we usually discuss these matters with customers and seek their feedback as to what they are looking for in a tune.

Al
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Old 09-05-2007, 01:52 AM   #22
Dyno Flash
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The results are in on the header test

This was a A - B test - no other changes made

The header tested was a groupe S 4 into 1 style header

The header is apparently of no help and in fact hurts spool up and top end power on the stock turbo at these boost and power levels

I am a little suprized by the results (would have thought the header would have made a bit of top end power at the expense of low end spool up) but the dyno does not lie

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Old 09-05-2007, 08:18 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyno Flash View Post
The results are in on the header test

This was a A - B test - no other changes made

The header tested was a groupe S 4 into 1 style header

The header is apparently of no help and in fact hurts spool up and top end power on the stock turbo at these boost and power levels

I am a little suprized by the results (would have thought the header would have made a bit of top end power at the expense of low end spool up) but the dyno does not lie

Did boost levels change after the header install?

What would happen if the car was retuned?


Thanks,
Mike
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Old 09-05-2007, 09:51 AM   #24
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This was a A - B test - no other changes made
...
but the dyno does not lie
Maybe, just maybe, you should think about retuning the car when you change parts before making conclusions.
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Old 09-05-2007, 09:56 AM   #25
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Maybe, just maybe, you should think about retuning the car when you change parts before making conclusions.
I didnt want to be the first to say it
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