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Old 05-03-2007, 12:29 AM   #1
Migo
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Default new engine!

EDIT UPDATE:
New video posted down below (post #25)


I have a much much older thread than this, but I thought that I'll start a new one. Link to the old thread: CLICKY


After a hectic 2 1/2 days worth to build/assemble then swap motors, the engine is done.

I've observed some small things that could be problems, or it could be just me nitpicking.

Specs:


-PerfectPower 6 EM
-Cobb CAI
-Ported and polished SOHC cylinder heads, computer flow-matched, 3-angle valve job
-Hondata intake manifold spacers (came free with the cylinder heads...)
-Delta camshafts (semi-aggressive grind)
-STi headgaskets
-STi shortblock (used) remachined, bored 10 over, and rebuilt with the OEM gasket kit
-STi forged crank and rods
-Forged JE Pistons, custom 10.5:1 compression, with the accompanying wrist pins, retainers, and piston rings.
-Cosworth main bearings
-Cosworth rod bearings
-ARP head studs
-Cobb lightweight crank pulley
-Exedy lightweight flywheel
-Exedy stage 1 clutch


Impressions:

So far, it's buttery smooth when revving, compared to my stock engine w/ Cobb stage 1 cams. I'm actually VERY surprised, because the Delta cams that I've got are of a more aggressive cut than the Cobb street cams.

I haven't taken it past 3500 rpms yet, except for once when I pushed it to 4k. I have no idea where my powerband is yet. Throttle has been under 70%, too.

I was expecting the break-in to be excruciatingly slow when accelerating, given that I'm not going past 3.5k or over 70% throttle, but I'm keeping up with traffic very well.

I haven't tuned it yet. Right now I'm still running the generic stage 3 map that RalliTek provided me with when I bought the PP6. That's also part of the reason why I haven't taken the car past 4000rpms or WOT (open-loop mode). The timing might be completely off or dangerous, given that I'm running a small bump higher in compression.

Problems:

The STi block has an extra breather tube located close to the center of the two block halves. It had to be hammered down a bit in order to fit the coolant crossover pipe, and it wasn't covered, so oil started spewing out of it like crazy. I got some pretty alarmed and horrified looks from people in traffic, mainly because of the large clouds of smoke emanating from my hood. I took some time in the afternoon to block off the breather with high-temp silicone, and it seems to have fixed the problem. I think I might have to go over the whole thing again when I get the chance, I think I might have missed a spot or two, because my wires looked a bit greasy again.

I've got a CEL but I can't identify it yet... I haven't had the chance to get it checked out.

The idle is a little scary, but not rough. It'll fluctuate every 2 seconds from 700rpms to 100rpms (and almost stalling). The guy who sold me the cylinder heads (SOLUTION) mentioned something about having to swap over some magnets for the cam gears, but I completely forgot about it during the assembly process, and it might have something to do with the idle AND the CEL.

The biggest thing I'm worried about is that when it fluctuates while idling like that, I'd hear three very very faint knocking sounds resonating from the chassis... basically every cycle. I don't hear it when I'm on the throttle at all. I'm wondering if it could be 1 - the engine moving around when it comes close to stalling, 2 - the ECU being screwed up with how to figure out the timing, given the extra bump in compression, and thus knocking, 3 - ???.

I've checked the oil a couple of times, it looks good so far. Coolant though... the car didn't gulp down any extra coolant when we fired it up the first time... I'm a bit worried about that. Should I be?

I'm a bit iffy on the piston rings... the gap was filed down and measured with a feeler gauge to the specifications listed on the JE Pistons instructions, but I guess I'm paranoid - what if the gap was a bit off (i.e. too small). Thermal expansion would dictate that the rings would press up against itself and... what could happen?


Questions:

What kind of checks should I do to ensure that the engine is "healthy"? I mean, aside from oil/coolant/wideband checks? I obviously have to get the CEL checked out, and I should be going in for a compression test later on this week, but aside from that...? Oil analysis?

What could be causing the knocking sound of the engine at idle?

Any comments?
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Last edited by Migo; 07-20-2007 at 08:56 PM.
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Old 05-03-2007, 12:36 AM   #2
rougeben83
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glad that pp6 I sold you is being useful
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Old 05-03-2007, 10:39 AM   #3
Migo
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Thanks man! Technically it's not useful just yet, but it will be!

Bump - for some suggestions/answers to the idle knock problem!
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Old 05-03-2007, 04:48 PM   #4
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Mingo,
I did a very simalar build for my wagon last year. I had to plug the extra crankcase breather hole as well. I went down to the parts store and found a freeze plug that fit perfect. I caoted the surfaces with High-Tack then hamered it in. It was very easy to do before I installed the coolant cross-over pipe. It'll probably be tricky to do with the intake and everything installed, but you might still be able to do it. Hope this is helpful, Dave.
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Old 05-03-2007, 09:51 PM   #5
Migo
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Ah! Good to know I'm on the right path.

Right now my problem is the breather by the far passenger side of the block. The STi block has a ~5/8" breather while the RS/TS block is ~3/8". I used a large rubber hose as an adapter. It seems to be working but not solidly planted. I'm going to have to clamp it down because some oil seems to be spraying out of it at times.
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Old 05-04-2007, 01:36 PM   #6
Matt Monson
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Your engine is broke and ruined. Send it to me. I can put it to good use...
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Old 05-04-2007, 02:34 PM   #7
Migo
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LOL

Thanks Matt. I appreciate the offer, but I think I'll stick to this engine!

A buddy of mine called the rough idle "hunting". If there's a way I can set the idle a bit higher, I'd be happy.
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Old 05-04-2007, 02:34 PM   #8
Honkey3k
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You should probaly change the oil at around 1000 miles and make sure there isnt anything floating in it etc.

I dont think you should be worried about running too lean because when the CEL is turned on, it makes you run more rich thus protecting your motor. Get it tuned and beat the hell out of it
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Old 05-04-2007, 07:05 PM   #9
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I don't think you should drive it or start it up anymore until you can beat the hell out of it and break it in properly.
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Old 05-05-2007, 03:50 AM   #10
Migo
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I don't think I should be following some of the advice in this thread...
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Old 05-05-2007, 03:53 AM   #11
Migo
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Hmm... I've tried:

MSD DashHawk
ECUExplorer
02-03 WRX AccessPort


None of them can pull any codes... they all unanimously say that there are no CEL's to show. I'm taking the car for an oil change on Tuesday at the local dealership (free) and I know that they have the Subie specific scanner. I'll see if that works, otherwise my car is playing tricks on me.
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Old 05-05-2007, 05:03 AM   #12
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Pics!!
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Old 05-05-2007, 02:10 PM   #13
Migo
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pics as soon as I can! please find and dig up my previous thread on this... it's got pics of the parts before assembly i think.
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Old 05-06-2007, 02:37 PM   #14
nast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Migo View Post
I don't think I should be following some of the advice in this thread...
Well then, you're obviously not interested in hearing anything about break in...

Can't wait to see some pics.
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Old 05-07-2007, 09:11 AM   #15
Migo
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Default engine stalled

So it actually happened. Last night, I was sitting at a stoplight, just daydreaming, when the engine died on me. I had to start it in a hurry because the light had just turned green for me.

I guess I had gotten used to the almost-dying lumpy idle.

I really need to find out the cause of this problem. I'm taking my car in to the dealership for an oil change and to get the CEL pulled (universal OBD-II scanners, ECUExplorer and AP's don't work), so I will have my mechanic have a look at it.

Last edited by Migo; 05-07-2007 at 09:36 AM.
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Old 05-07-2007, 01:20 PM   #16
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We want a video clip, please I neeed to hear that monster
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Old 05-08-2007, 10:34 AM   #17
Migo
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Given the other things I have to deal with right now, the video will have to wait till the weekend...
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Old 05-08-2007, 01:09 PM   #18
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when i was running lean early this year i had that same sound when i was idling and the rpms would dip down to 100... the clicking sound. then when it kicked back up, it stopped. don't know what to tell you man, this stuff is over my head, i'm still learning a ton about this stuff.

kevin
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Old 05-28-2007, 09:40 PM   #19
Charlie-III
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Monson View Post
Your engine is broke and ruined. Send it to me. I can put it to good use...
Nope, I want it, it would work MUCH better in a Legacy!
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Old 05-28-2007, 09:41 PM   #20
Charlie-III
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Migo View Post
Given the other things I have to deal with right now, the video will have to wait till the weekend...
Ummmm....which weekend?? or is this a "6-8 weeks" sorta thing?
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Old 05-29-2007, 12:45 AM   #21
Migo
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Ah crap.

I'll get it soon!!! Man, I've been so busy I've had no time to do laundry. I've been picking clothes off the floor to wear for the day - based on how they smell.
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Old 06-30-2007, 03:22 AM   #22
Migo
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Update:

I was able to finally line up against fellow Subies! Horray for apples to apples comparisons! we started in 2nd gear, 20-90mph.

My car vs 2003 stage 1 AP bugeye WRX: The rex pulled 2 car lengths by 70mph, and 3 car lengths by the time we hit 90mph.

My car vs 2006 2.5i (intake/pulley/no AC belt/catback): I pulled a good 10 car lengths

The guy with the bugeye rex said that he was quite surprised I was able to keep up. He said I'd do pretty good against a stock 2.0L WRX , so I'm going to line up against him again after he flashes it back to stock for a quick run.
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Old 06-30-2007, 05:42 PM   #23
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Nice...

BTW, what did you do with the cobb street cams you mentioned??? Dibs ...
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Old 07-01-2007, 12:35 AM   #24
Migo
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I've still got them here...
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Old 07-20-2007, 08:50 PM   #25
Migo
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Default video!

bump! Here's a link to the long-promised video... I took it this afternoon.

CLICKY

The engine has around 4k miles on it already, I'm about due for yet another oil change (I've had 3 since I installed it), and I'm going full synthetic. It currently burns about a 1/4 quart every 400 miles of spirited/daily driving.

Quick notes:

1. Turn up the volume, the camera mic sucks.
2. 20-35 secs into the video, you can hear how my engine is hunting
3. 58secs to 1:04 mins I made a WOT stab to 4k rpms
4. Notice how quickly it revs up and down compared to the stock 2.5L NA
5. Yes yes, I don't have upgraded engine mounts or exhaust bushings...
6. I've adjusted my valve lash to 8 and 10... it is still a bit clicky though.


I'm putting the output estimate roughly between 150-160whp.
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