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Old 09-14-2007, 03:49 PM   #1
DerFahrer
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Default Typo in 08 WRX article in new SS issue

You guys said the 08 WRX has an EJ257. It, and all Subaru turbos besides the STi, have an EJ255. STi is EJ257.
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Old 09-15-2007, 03:21 PM   #2
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It is all the same block. The STI has different heads. But you will say, there are different part numbers for the engine block for each car. However, those different part numbers all reference a single part number for the same engine block. So essentially, we are right but it could be argued that the difference in nomenclature between EJ255 and EJ257 is the head design. But when it all comes down to it, the same engine case, rods, pistons and crank all reside in all current Turbo 2.5-liter models.
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Old 09-15-2007, 06:45 PM   #3
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I know. That's basically what I meant.

The longblock is still different though because of the heads, hence the different designation.
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Old 09-17-2007, 01:05 AM   #4
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Like I said, it is basically a difference in nomenclature. We were referring to the short block, not the long block. Since there is no difference between the two it really doesn't matter what you call it so we choose to refer to it by the STI's designation. If you read every other article on the new WRX you will see other publications lamenting the fact that the new WRX gets the "weaker" 2.5 block from the Legacy and Forester XT.
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Old 09-20-2007, 01:09 PM   #5
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I thought the EJ257 had extra webbing that made it a bit stronger. Also, I thought the STi's pistons (hyper-whatever process) were different. When did they release the EJ255?
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Old 09-20-2007, 10:36 PM   #6
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It's the same exact short block. The 255 came out with the FXT and the Legacy GT turbo and then in the 2006 WRX. Basically as was stated, the difference is in the heads, not the bottom end. The difference in short blocks is NA vs Turbo blocks. The NA blocks have less webbing, all the turbo 2.5 blocks are the same. Like I said, they all reference the exact same part number in the Subaru parts catalog
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Old 09-21-2007, 09:14 PM   #7
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Hmm...I'll look into that on Monday morning.

10103AB440 - '04-05 STi shortblock (memorized)

I keep two in stock for the local shop...
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Old 12-25-2007, 08:44 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeanEditor View Post
Like I said, it is basically a difference in nomenclature. We were referring to the short block, not the long block. Since there is no difference between the two it really doesn't matter what you call it so we choose to refer to it by the STI's designation. If you read every other article on the new WRX you will see other publications lamenting the fact that the new WRX gets the "weaker" 2.5 block from the Legacy and Forester XT.
Thats not correct about the short block. The pistons between the WRX and the WRX STi are different and therefore different part numbers for the short block.

That entire article in the Subie Sport magazine is full of innacuracies. For example, the "stock" dyno numbers are extremely high for truly stock. There is no way the WRX is putting out 205whp in "stock" form. The article explicitly states that the (I'm paraphrasing) new WRX has "significantly" more power than the old one; and then the article proceeds to state the 205whp figure.

For information that is, as we are told in the article, from Subaru, the information appears to be untrue.
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Old 12-26-2007, 05:20 AM   #9
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There is one 2.5 liter turbo shortblock in the Subaru parts system. I have yet to see any information to the contrary. The difference between the two engines are the heads. I have this on good authority (Subaru) so I would like to know if there is some contrary information out there.

Also, how can we be innacurate if we have dyno numbers to back it up? You can say that one dyno to the next reads differently, however, we were quoting previously published dyno numbers from here: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...pdxtuning+2008.

If you would like to argue that PDXTuning obtained faulty numbers, then go ahead. In the past a "stock" WRX would dyno in the sub-200whp range, while this particular car was over 200whp, it also had more torque.

Subaru's claimes power output have actually decreased, the dyno says otherwise. To compare, the 2007 TR is rated at 230 BHP and 235 tq. Subaru claims the new WRX to be at 224 bhp and 226 tq, however, I am not sure if this does or does not reflect the 2007 SAE correction.
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Old 12-27-2007, 01:45 AM   #10
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Seems kind of weird that you know it has an EJ255, but you printed it has an EJ257. Why print incorrect information?
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Old 12-27-2007, 02:29 AM   #11
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That begs the question. When you pull the heads off, which block is it since they are all the same? The point is then that the blocks are all the same, just with different heads.
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Old 12-27-2007, 02:46 AM   #12
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So will you also print that all phase II 2.5 na engines are EJ259 when they clearly aren't? Take the heads off and it wont matter if it's DMPFI, LMPFI, PZEV or whatever else you want.

I'm not saying that the short blocks aren't the same, I know they are the same, but an engine code being taken to the fifth character isn't a short block. The fifth character means the Fuel feed system 5: MPI Turbo 7: MPI High power turbo. This comes straight from Subaru.

If it was a misprint or typo, just say it. If it's not, and you deliberately printed incorrect information, I still ask why?

Why not just print it as an EJ255, and explain the differences if you want to prove this point?
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Old 12-27-2007, 04:30 AM   #13
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I think the point has been pretty well explained. We were pointing out that the turbo 2.5 short blocks are all the same. Your point about the NA blocks dosen't really make sense since these are a different block completely. Given the context of article, our claim makes it plain that the 2008 WRX has different longblock than that of the STI and refers only to the shortblock. I would contrast this with some other magazines that claim that the Ej255 is a lesser powerplant, which is certainly not the case.

Like I said, this was a choice of nomenclature to point out that the STI and WRX share shortblocks. Read the article, it will make sense.
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Old 12-28-2007, 10:42 PM   #14
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The NA thing makes plenty of sense if you know engine codes.

Considering that you'll print false info, I don't think there's much reason to read the articles, or even try reasoning.
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Old 12-29-2007, 05:09 AM   #15
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It's not false info. The STI and the WRX both have the same shortblock.
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Old 12-29-2007, 01:13 PM   #16
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It could be the same part in different numbered boxes, but the pistons and rods have different part numbers between the sti and the wrx. The crank has the same part number though.

Rich
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Old 12-30-2007, 12:54 PM   #17
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Not intending to be belligerent, but in looking at what companies such as TurboXS say about the stock WRX and its dyno numbers (pre-2008) the measured values are around 175hp (not sure what the torque was but nowhere close to what is be stated about the 2008 WRX). There is just no way that Subaru underrated the engine on the 08’s to such a large difference between stated and actual values. That engine, in stock form, is not pumping out ~250bhp; not at a light 11.9lbs of boost… Look at the LGT’s boost and hp. Same engine mechanicals

If the 2008 had so much power being put down to the wheels then, for example, there is no way that in the quarter mile that a Mazdaspeed3 would catch up to the WRX… The WRX would not find itself losing ground in that circumstance to that vehicle. Additionally, the 2008 WRX is slightly slower than the 2007’s… How? On more power? No way.

And whatever anyone says that its only important about the gains a vehicle makes on a dyno, that is not true either. Not by a mile… For example, what good would it be if the WRX (stock) is measured to be putting down 200whp and on the same dyno that a stock Focus is measured to be putting down 175whp? I’d wager to say that the WRX owner would be mighty ticked off about spending so much more money on a vehicle that is damned near a crappy Focus in terms of power… That’s a highly exaggerated example, but I believe it makes the point.

There is something very wrong with those dyno numbers.

That being said, I'd love to see a proper dyno done on the stock vehicle.


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Old 12-30-2007, 01:11 PM   #18
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The parts on the outside of the engine are all different between the 06-07 WRX, LGT and STi. The 08 WRX and LGT have virtually all external engine parts the same except the turbo.

THAWA is right. I'm sorry. You can argue all you want about part numbers and that the 255 and 257 shortblocks are the same (which they are). But the shortblock is not an engine. It's part of an engine. The ENGINE in the 06+ WRX, LGT/OXT, FXT, and Baja-T is an EJ255. That (at least those digits) is the official code from Subaru. The ENGINE in the 04+ STi is an EJ257. Again, at least those digits, official code from Subaru.

By saying the 08 WRX has an EJ257, you are directly stating it has an STi engine. This is incorrect info, no matter which way you cut it.
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Old 01-02-2008, 09:59 PM   #19
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Since this seems to be a hotly debated topic (are all 2.5-liter turbo blocks the same?), we will do some investigation on the topic and see what is what. Look for an update in a future issue.

I for one have always thought that all the 2.5-liter shortblocks are the same ever since I had to order a new block for a Forester XT way back in 2004, or was it 2003? Anyway, back then, the Subaru parts guy said the part numbers for the two blocks were the same. This information has since been corraborated by several independent sources (tuners, Subaru, other enthusiasts). However, I went ahead and emailed Jamie at Subaru Genuine Parts, she informs me that there are now two separate part numbers, but do these numbers mean that there are two different parts? While this seems unlikely that Subaru would make an entirely different block, it is possible. As has been stated before, the difference is in the heads, injectors, manifolds, ECU etc.

After re-reading the article in question where the "typo" occurs, it could very well be construed that we are saying that the new WRX has an EJ257 engine, instead of sharing the shortblock with the STI. Since it is our understanding that both short blocks are the same, we decided to call the WRX block a 257. Reason being that when you strip everything away and are left with the shortblock, which is really the limiting factor in the power/reliability department, what do you call it if both the STI and WRX blocks are the same? Does it become one or the other?

In the future, we will be more careful with our nomenclature and wording and I hope to figure out what is what. Stay tuned.
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Old 01-05-2008, 10:08 PM   #20
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Since this seems to be a hotly debated topic (are all 2.5-liter turbo blocks the same?), we will do some investigation on the topic and see what is what. Look for an update in a future issue.
It would have been nice if you did this research BEFORE you printed incorrect information.
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Old 01-06-2008, 05:00 PM   #21
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As I have stated before, we haven't felt a need to revisit this as the "fact" that all 2.5 turbo shortblocks are the same has been corroborated by several independent sources, not the least of which were off-the-record comments by engineers inside Subaru. However, since there seems to be much contention of this point, it seems worthwhile to investigate this point to see if it is still the case.
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