Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Saturday September 20, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Engine Management & Tuning > Commercial ECU Reflashes

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-19-2007, 10:35 PM   #1
BlackSTI2006
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 105404
Join Date: Jan 2006
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Fitchburg, MA
Vehicle:
2006 FPGreenSTI SOLD
04 GMC 2500HD Duramax CC

Default Mysterious Knock...or maybe not!

Alright, this has been an issue tuning my car with Enginuity since the very begining. I have an 06 Sti with fp green, fmic, perrin big MAF, modded stock injectors, full tbe, yadda yadda. Im running one step colder Ngk iridium ix plugs.

Since day one of starting tuning there has been a "knock" count(aka KC dropped) right in the area of 4900-5100 till around 5500-5700.....SAME spot EVERY time. No matter what my tuner does or i do its never gone away.

We put it back on the dyno today months later to try and fix this issue, and its still there. We kept pulling timing in the spot and power dipped dramatically in the area of reduced timing but liked it and made awsome power before and after the spot. So we figured maybe its picking up some random noise or maybe its seeing something thats no there. We add timing and sure enough power goes up and up and we got it flat again.

No matter what we set the base timing or kc at it ALWAYS drops in that one spot. We get timing spot on every other spot before and after and always get this stupid spot. We tried gapping down plugs and that didnt help at all.
Car pulls and doesnt even hesitate in the spot.

I am wondering if anyones had this problem or has any input of what may be wrong?

Has anyone had this and tried copper plugs?

Anyone think the knock sensor may be bad?

What would you do?

oh yes, AFR's are perfect in the 10.7-11.0 range. we kept it pretty conservative so i dont have any other issues.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
BlackSTI2006 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2007, 08:18 AM   #2
blkscooby
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 44422
Join Date: Sep 2003
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Vehicle:
2009 G8 GT
Cammed, sprayed, stalled

Default

Did you log fine correction and learned correction instead of KC? Fine correction is the actual timing being pulled due to current knock and learned correction is the timing pulled because the car knocked at that load/ RPM before and the ECU will then continue to pull there always.

Are you sure of the AFR? You could be getting knock because you are too rich, which is what I have thought the issue has been all along.
blkscooby is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2007, 10:51 AM   #3
crazymikie
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 56321
Join Date: Mar 2004
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Hopkinton, MA
Vehicle:
2006 Honda El Camino
Green

Default

Can you post a log? What is your boost at that point? What is your timing?

If it's always at the same RPM irrespective of gear, then you might want to check your drivetrain for any weird noises.

Have you tried listening to the noise with detcans?
crazymikie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2007, 11:30 AM   #4
akira02rex
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 82612
Join Date: Mar 2005
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Vehicle:
2015 WRX STI
Ice Silver Metallic

Default

IIRC, the spots you mention is the most knock-prone in the subaru engine powerband.

Have you checked on EGT?
akira02rex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2007, 11:32 AM   #5
BlackSTI2006
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 105404
Join Date: Jan 2006
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Fitchburg, MA
Vehicle:
2006 FPGreenSTI SOLD
04 GMC 2500HD Duramax CC

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blkscooby View Post
Did you log fine correction and learned correction instead of KC? Fine correction is the actual timing being pulled due to current knock and learned correction is the timing pulled because the car knocked at that load/ RPM before and the ECU will then continue to pull there always.

Are you sure of the AFR? You could be getting knock because you are too rich, which is what I have thought the issue has been all along.
AFR's are solid at 11.0-10.7 across in that range especially....like PERFECTLY flat around 10.7-10.8.....we pulled fuel via the injector scaling and brought it up to 11.1-11.2 and saw no difference.....it was discussed that maybe it was way too rich and maybe causing det. but that was ruled out when we did that.....

I log the actual timing so I can see what its actually running and what its pulling and when its pulling....

If you want I still owe you a ride we can look at it and you can see what you think because me and dave @ esp are clueless about this....he was going to do some research but we honestly think something is wierd now....we scaled everything back down because im hitting engine loads of only like 3.5-3.6 i believe and nothing off the charts.....

We corrected quite a bit yesterday and smoothed everything out and actually used some cam timing as well.....we pulled timing and adjusted fueling in the area but it was flat like i said before and nothing was wrong.....we pulled timing and continued to until my torque had a CRATER in it.....a SERIOUS dip but no dip in AFR's.....we sat there and pondered and said hey lets add timing back in until its flat and see what it does....

Now there is no hesitation and no dip in power, which would seem to me there is no detonation or knock, which would obviously hinder performance a lot if it saw a lot.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazymikie View Post
Can you post a log? What is your boost at that point? What is your timing?

If it's always at the same RPM irrespective of gear, then you might want to check your drivetrain for any weird noises.

Have you tried listening to the noise with detcans?
I have a clunk in the drivetrain....after some research and seeing this article on IWSTI.com i think it sourced it to this same issue. Another local member i know has the same on/off throttle klunk/click noise and the dealer told him it was the brake calipers or some stupid excuse but i think it may be the axle nuts like explained in this article.....ive put it on a lift and shook everything and still havent found a source but i think it may be this....
http://www.iwsti.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53796

at that point im at 20psi.....obviously not a good time to have knock

I am at around timing looks like this(starting at the cell prior to the drop in KC) 15,13,14,14,14,14,14,17,17.....That is from 5000 to 6000 rpm......right in the 300-320 g/s range....boost is a solid 20.314 in that whole range.....narrowband reading a solid 11.14 through the entire range......intake temps around 60-70 degrees.....MAF voltage 4.2-4.4....


I am like absolutely clueless about this whole situation and pretty much fed up with this.....

I was thinking it may be a driveline problem/noise.....its the SAME exact spots EVERY time no matter what we do....add fuel, pull fuel, add timing, pull timing....
BlackSTI2006 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2007, 11:35 AM   #6
BlackSTI2006
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 105404
Join Date: Jan 2006
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Fitchburg, MA
Vehicle:
2006 FPGreenSTI SOLD
04 GMC 2500HD Duramax CC

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by akira02rex View Post
IIRC, the spots you mention is the most knock-prone in the subaru engine powerband.

Have you checked on EGT?
havent installed my EGT probe yet.....just been trying to solve this issue....i might try to get that put in this weekend.....

just switched from full time work to 10hrs a week and going to school full time....kind of tough to keep spending money, although i dont want to spend money on a motor either.....

i dont think im going to find high egts anyways, i think this is a mechanical issue, either driveline noise or a bad knock sensor thats too sensitive or picking up some wierd harmonics in that area....

I am at about 47000 miles and i ran stage 2 cobb for around 10,000 miles, a stage 2 20psi vf39 tune with the fmic for around another 10,000, and this fp green setup for about 7,000.....maybe some wear and tear on the sensor....

could the knock sensor pick up noise from the exhaust, maybe the pipe rattling on the rear diff? my apexi is very close and i know it bumps it sometime.....maybe as the motors twisting and pulling the exhaust against the diff? i guess im just thinking of everything that could happen...
BlackSTI2006 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2007, 12:06 PM   #7
Master2192
RIP 10/12/83 to 02/10/08
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 83254
Join Date: Mar 2005
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Roy, Washington
Vehicle:
98 2.5 RS
04 WRX

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackSTI2006
AFR's are solid at 11.0-10.7 across in that range especially....like PERFECTLY flat around 10.7-10.8.....we pulled fuel via the injector scaling and brought it up to 11.1-11.2 and saw no difference.....it was discussed that maybe it was way too rich and maybe causing det. but that was ruled out when we did that.....
No you didn't I was tuning a GT30R STI and I had a knocking problem in the exact same area, I ALSO leaned it out to 11.2 and it didn't solve the problem. I talked to Clark (AZScoobie) and he said it looked too rich and recommended a AFR of 11.4, so I did and BAM knocking problem went away.

The FPGreen is similiar to this car I mention because its a GT30 compressor with a too small exhaust side (the 30R I did was a .63 A/R). IMO you guys should try going leaner than 11.2
Master2192 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2007, 12:30 PM   #8
BlackSTI2006
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 105404
Join Date: Jan 2006
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Fitchburg, MA
Vehicle:
2006 FPGreenSTI SOLD
04 GMC 2500HD Duramax CC

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Master2192 View Post
No you didn't I was tuning a GT30R STI and I had a knocking problem in the exact same area, I ALSO leaned it out to 11.2 and it didn't solve the problem. I talked to Clark (AZScoobie) and he said it looked too rich and recommended a AFR of 11.4, so I did and BAM knocking problem went away.

The FPGreen is similiar to this car I mention because its a GT30 compressor with a too small exhaust side (the 30R I did was a .63 A/R). IMO you guys should try going leaner than 11.2
Ok....well we only got up to like 11.1 or 11.2 and it was still there......we didnt dare go leaner......i will email my tuner with your comment and see what he says.......

Thanks for the advice...ill try that maybe tonight or tomorow!
BlackSTI2006 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2007, 01:50 PM   #9
crazymikie
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 56321
Join Date: Mar 2004
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Hopkinton, MA
Vehicle:
2006 Honda El Camino
Green

Default

It seems like there is something odd too- on a car with a Cobb 70mm bigMAF, green turbo with EWG, I was seeing 4.8 MAFv by redline. I wonder if there is a restriction somewhere. Any chance you can hit the outlet of the IC with a temp gun while doing a pull? I wonder if the turbo is overworking or something.

Also, as Master said, you might try pulling a little more fuel. 11.5:1 on 93 octane is unreasonable at all.
crazymikie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2007, 01:57 PM   #10
blkscooby
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 44422
Join Date: Sep 2003
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Vehicle:
2009 G8 GT
Cammed, sprayed, stalled

Default

That is about what I would do with your car Chris- 11.5 or 11.6 The RPM you are seeing knock is not at max VE even with the Green so you could even be 11.7 there. I still think your knock could be related to too much fuel.
blkscooby is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2007, 02:16 PM   #11
BlackSTI2006
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 105404
Join Date: Jan 2006
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Fitchburg, MA
Vehicle:
2006 FPGreenSTI SOLD
04 GMC 2500HD Duramax CC

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazymikie View Post
It seems like there is something odd too- on a car with a Cobb 70mm bigMAF, green turbo with EWG, I was seeing 4.8 MAFv by redline. I wonder if there is a restriction somewhere. Any chance you can hit the outlet of the IC with a temp gun while doing a pull? I wonder if the turbo is overworking or something.

Also, as Master said, you might try pulling a little more fuel. 11.5:1 on 93 octane is unreasonable at all.
I dont thinks its overworking, i just saw chris @ xx tune a similar setup for like 22 psi on 93.....20 psi is just tickling the green i think

I hit 20psi around 3700-3900 and hold that till redline.....it wanted to keep boosting when we started....duty cycles of the GM BCS are fairly high but holding strong at like 60%-70% i believe trying to hold the iwg open......
Quote:
Originally Posted by blkscooby View Post
That is about what I would do with your car Chris- 11.5 or 11.6 The RPM you are seeing knock is not at max VE even with the Green so you could even be 11.7 there. I still think your knock could be related to too much fuel.
I still agree with you and i just shot dave an email about the mid 11's for AFR......

im going to try that and see what happens....what are you using to log afr's? an lm-1?

i know now there isnt too much timing, itll run it but i think all the extra fuel is causing some issues....
BlackSTI2006 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2007, 04:23 PM   #12
blkscooby
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 44422
Join Date: Sep 2003
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Vehicle:
2009 G8 GT
Cammed, sprayed, stalled

Default

I have an LC-1 WBO2 that I log with Enginuity.

As far as your timing, I would have to see your timing map but remember when you go to a larger turbo, the VE of the enngine changes and the timing at load/ RPM has to change. Ie. if you ran 13* at peak boost (3200 RPM) on a Stg2 setup, you can run more timing at 3200 RPM now but need that 12-14* timing at maybe 4000 RPM or so. Basically the whole timing curve needs to shift up the RPM range.
blkscooby is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2007, 04:45 PM   #13
BlackSTI2006
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 105404
Join Date: Jan 2006
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Fitchburg, MA
Vehicle:
2006 FPGreenSTI SOLD
04 GMC 2500HD Duramax CC

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blkscooby View Post
I have an LC-1 WBO2 that I log with Enginuity.

As far as your timing, I would have to see your timing map but remember when you go to a larger turbo, the VE of the enngine changes and the timing at load/ RPM has to change. Ie. if you ran 13* at peak boost (3200 RPM) on a Stg2 setup, you can run more timing at 3200 RPM now but need that 12-14* timing at maybe 4000 RPM or so. Basically the whole timing curve needs to shift up the RPM range.

well i did some looking and people were saying on the perrin modded stock injectors to actually multiply each latency value by 1.05 and scale around 750'ish so im going to try that and pull fuel globally since everything is pretty rich.....wondering if maybe i could borrow the lc-1 to check AFR's to be sure nothings too lean or too rich....

plus i havent been able to setup my enginuity logger, mind maybe helping me do that? i cant get it to connect maybe im retarded... im sick of the ecuexplorer one.....
BlackSTI2006 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2007, 05:07 PM   #14
BlackSTI2006
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 105404
Join Date: Jan 2006
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Fitchburg, MA
Vehicle:
2006 FPGreenSTI SOLD
04 GMC 2500HD Duramax CC

Default

I went from 740 to 755 on the injector scaler and then i took your timing map from ryans 20 psi map and put it in my car it held KC at 3 all the way through a third gear pull.....opinions on that move?

No hesitations or anything that looks bad in my 2 WOT 3rd gear pulls....i did soe partial throttle and quick WOT blurps to make sure it was safe....

I just want to make sure my AFR's stay in line....
BlackSTI2006 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2007, 05:12 PM   #15
crazymikie
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 56321
Join Date: Mar 2004
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Hopkinton, MA
Vehicle:
2006 Honda El Camino
Green

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackSTI2006 View Post
I dont thinks its overworking, i just saw chris @ xx tune a similar setup for like 22 psi on 93.....20 psi is just tickling the green i think

I hit 20psi around 3700-3900 and hold that till redline.....it wanted to keep boosting when we started....duty cycles of the GM BCS are fairly high but holding strong at like 60%-70% i believe trying to hold the iwg open......
Just because it's making 20psi doesn't mean it's making it happily. There could be an intake restriction, there could be a post turbo restriction, your IC could not be keeping up. Just something else to check- if your air filter is dirty/clogged, that certainly won't help.
crazymikie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2007, 05:32 PM   #16
BlackSTI2006
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 105404
Join Date: Jan 2006
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Fitchburg, MA
Vehicle:
2006 FPGreenSTI SOLD
04 GMC 2500HD Duramax CC

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazymikie View Post
Just because it's making 20psi doesn't mean it's making it happily. There could be an intake restriction, there could be a post turbo restriction, your IC could not be keeping up. Just something else to check- if your air filter is dirty/clogged, that certainly won't help.
I cleaned the filter, cleaned the MAF, and ive watched the intake on the dyno.....no collapsing or anything.....ive been trying to source the problems to mechanics but it doesnt seem to be there....

the only mechanical thing i can possibly think of is driveline noise like the axle click.....

if my IC isnt keeping up i have issues.....the perrin FMIC is quite large
BlackSTI2006 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2007, 08:16 PM   #17
blkscooby
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 44422
Join Date: Sep 2003
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Vehicle:
2009 G8 GT
Cammed, sprayed, stalled

Default

Don't use anything from any of Ryan's maps for your car. His is a Stg2 setup. I explained earlier why the timing needs to be completely different for a larger turbo. VE of the engine is completely different. Doing things like that will only cause more problems. Luckily the ECU saved your engine.

If you want to come by, I can help you set up the Enginuity logger.
blkscooby is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2007, 12:43 AM   #18
wuuusaa
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 92894
Join Date: Aug 2005
Chapter/Region: International
Location: Running away from Polar bears
Default

i heard copper plugs are very bad, stay away from them
wuuusaa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2007, 08:37 AM   #19
blkscooby
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 44422
Join Date: Sep 2003
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Vehicle:
2009 G8 GT
Cammed, sprayed, stalled

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ol'skoolwrx View Post
i heard copper plugs are very bad, stay away from them
You heard from who? Copper is one of the best choices. They just need to be changed mroe often. Don't comment on things you don't know.
blkscooby is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2007, 05:13 PM   #20
BlackSTI2006
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 105404
Join Date: Jan 2006
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Fitchburg, MA
Vehicle:
2006 FPGreenSTI SOLD
04 GMC 2500HD Duramax CC

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blkscooby View Post
You heard from who? Copper is one of the best choices. They just need to be changed mroe often. Don't comment on things you don't know.
I still havent found a part number for any copper plugs for the sti. Not to mention Jon at Victory doesnt have a catalog, NGK doesnt list one on the site, Napa couldnt even figure out what one step colder meant.....

Ive searched the forums and online and came up with nothing in a copper plug for the car...

not to mention i asked on the forums and Unabomber gave me **** even though his USELESS fact sheet on spark plugs was exactly that USELESS! and he gave me a warning for it....i couldnt get an answer from anyone...

not to mention everyone i know running an fp green runs iridiums....correct me if im wrong but i see people all over the forums running the NGK Iridiums LFR7AIX
BlackSTI2006 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2007, 11:44 PM   #21
Master2192
RIP 10/12/83 to 02/10/08
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 83254
Join Date: Mar 2005
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Roy, Washington
Vehicle:
98 2.5 RS
04 WRX

Default

They don't make copper plugs for the STI from what I have been told.
Master2192 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2007, 12:39 AM   #22
BlackSTI2006
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 105404
Join Date: Jan 2006
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Fitchburg, MA
Vehicle:
2006 FPGreenSTI SOLD
04 GMC 2500HD Duramax CC

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Master2192 View Post
They don't make copper plugs for the STI from what I have been told.
Thats what i assumed.....so now i know im not retarded....well not completely at least
BlackSTI2006 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2007, 06:38 AM   #23
wuuusaa
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 92894
Join Date: Aug 2005
Chapter/Region: International
Location: Running away from Polar bears
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackSTI2006 View Post
I still havent found a part number for any copper plugs for the sti. Not to mention Jon at Victory doesnt have a catalog, NGK doesnt list one on the site, Napa couldnt even figure out what one step colder meant.....

Ive searched the forums and online and came up with nothing in a copper plug for the car...

not to mention i asked on the forums and Unabomber gave me **** even though his USELESS fact sheet on spark plugs was exactly that USELESS! and he gave me a warning for it....i couldnt get an answer from anyone...

not to mention everyone i know running an fp green runs iridiums....correct me if im wrong but i see people all over the forums running the NGK Iridiums LFR7AIX
Quote:
Originally Posted by Master2192 View Post
They don't make copper plugs for the STI from what I have been told.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackSTI2006 View Post
Thats what i assumed.....so now i know im not retarded....well not completely at least
Quote:
Originally Posted by blkscooby View Post
You heard from who? Copper is one of the best choices. They just need to be changed mroe often. Don't comment on things you don't know.
from all those guys

thanks for input Sean
wuuusaa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2007, 07:05 AM   #24
Uncle Scotty
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 16200
Join Date: Mar 2002
Vehicle:
OK Houston
we have an Uncle

Default

I read that someone had their STi heads milled to accept the shorter reach WRX length plugs when they did their build.....dunno what all that would entail, but it wouldn't likely be cheap
Uncle Scotty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2007, 02:37 PM   #25
BlackSTI2006
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 105404
Join Date: Jan 2006
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Fitchburg, MA
Vehicle:
2006 FPGreenSTI SOLD
04 GMC 2500HD Duramax CC

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Scotty View Post
I read that someone had their STi heads milled to accept the shorter reach WRX length plugs when they did their build.....dunno what all that would entail, but it wouldn't likely be cheap
and not worth the time or money either...

EVERY other fp green setup with similar mods to me ive seen run the lfr7aix ngk plug has had no issues....

so i dont plan on changing plugs again, i plan on changing tuners....
BlackSTI2006 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Head or Block Crack? Maybe not? Brupp Normally Aspirated Powertrain 36 03-02-2007 01:37 PM
Not your everyday boost controller question... or maybe it is... preluden20 Factory 2.5L Turbo Powertrain 16 06-04-2006 11:14 PM
i might be screwed, or maybe not subyrally Tire & Wheel 2 11-05-2004 12:08 PM
i just pulled a cute or maybe not so cute tick out of my misogynist friend's hug gongzero Off-Topic 27 06-05-2003 10:53 AM
FL meet, Maybe.. Maybe Not :) cpages2 South East Region Forum 5 09-17-2001 01:28 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:57 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.