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Old 09-24-2007, 10:13 AM   #1
japslapr
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Default Cost incurred "building" a motor. My experience and what to expect!?

Alright. I took this down once because I didn't want to start a flame war against the shop that did the work or any other. I was asked to put it back up and will just to show/help the next person that is considering building their motor.

I think 70$ an hour is the going rate for a machinist. This is the hourly rate at which most of the work was done. There are times at which this changes and I will make note of it *.

Disassemble engine, clean, bag parts 5 hours $350
(I could have taken the motor apart myself
but its much easier to put something
together when YOU took it apart.
Locating parts, etc...)

Machine Reciever grooves and make 1 hour $70
pins for cylinders (this is to make the EJ205 a
semi closed deck)

Weld pins in place. outsourced I think $65

Bore deck and hone block 3hrs 210.

Reface flywheel .5 hrs 35

*Balance rotating assembly * 1hr * $175

Full gasket set from Subaru 1 hr $309

Head to block dowels (pins) 4ea 12.50

Assemble bottom end 2 hrs $140

Pocket port heads, wash, mill .002 9 hrs $630
and check spring pressures and assemble.
Set up and check valve lash. Make shim list
(shimless buckets, +1mm valves)

Install heads, oil pump, windage tray and 2.25 hrs $ 157
water pump

Assemble cams, gears, timing belt 3hrs $210
and covers



This with the 4% EPA an 5% VA sales tax came up to just under $2500. Keep in mind, this is just labor. A parts list of engine internals hurts a bit here as well. Cams, Pistons, Rods, valves, bearings.... add another 1800+.

There are obviously a few things here that can be skipped to save cost. Take the motor apart yourself, run stock shims, don't pin block. There is also the route of just getting a 2.5l short block for 2k and dropping in some pistons. You'd make MORE power and actually spend less money than I have. But at the same time, you'll have a 2.5l hybrid making 450-550 just like three other people in your area. This is why I didn't. I wont make as much power, but I wanted different above that.

I welcome advice and input but don't want to hear negatives about this shop. Don't really care how you feel about them. I'm 110% behind both shops that have touched my car.

-Fred
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Last edited by japslapr; 09-25-2007 at 06:33 PM.
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Old 09-24-2007, 12:01 PM   #2
Homemade WRX
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asked to delete my post ...sorry

Last edited by Homemade WRX; 09-24-2007 at 03:20 PM.
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Old 09-24-2007, 06:54 PM   #3
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why? Sounded like a good thread
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Old 09-24-2007, 07:00 PM   #4
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did that shop give you a discount for posting their prices?
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Old 09-24-2007, 07:24 PM   #5
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I recall seeing the build sheet and it was a good deal for sure
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Old 09-24-2007, 07:39 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jays05 View Post
I recall seeing the build sheet and it was a good deal for sure
eh?...I know the local shops and that one does sloppy/rushed work and is the more expensive of the the two I'd use...then again the other shop (have never had any issues or known of any issues with) really likes me and wants to hire me as their in-house engineer.
So, maybe I'm a little biased
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Old 09-25-2007, 10:00 AM   #7
japslapr
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This is why I closed the thread. Initially I thought it would do some good just to show people what is done and the round about cost of doing it. Then I realized quickly that peoples opinions about the shop itself would make it in and I wanted to avoid that.

Micah, you do realize how much crap I have heard about the shop you were directly associated with, right? Motors don't last three months because of tunes, blah blah blah. Every shop has their error. I'm not going to try to tarnish the reputation of any shop. I will have my opinions of my own of their work here VERY shortly. Even then, they will be mine and I wont try to force them upon anyone else.

Quote:
did that shop give you a discount for posting their prices?
Not even remotely. This was half my point. Lets just say that it would have been cheaper (same price maybe) to buy a STi short block, pistons, AND good cams with minor headwork than it was to go my route. I knew this going into it but didn't want the 2.5. There are no 430+ awhp EJ205's around here (that I know of)... that was the goal.
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Old 09-25-2007, 10:55 AM   #8
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I don't work at that tuning shop (not engine building) and left because of dishonest and shoddy work (in my opinion) that was going on...besides the problem (one person/the tuner...I'm sure you can guess who) is no longer there and two good guys run it now. I still moonlight down there from time to time to do some subie work if they are busy or need a hand...and I wasn't talking about them doing the machine work as they can't...I was talking about the machine shop I go to.

I was just trying to help you get your motor to a better machine shop that more consistently does quality work (or so I've seen from my experience with each shop).

I still wish you the best of luck and that the machinist didn't drop your crank, bend the snout, not remeasure everything and tossed your motor back together...not that that has ever happened repeatidly at "shop A"...or that the machinist didn't center your bores off of the mains before sleeving several blocks. These are just a few of the f-ups that I know of first hand.
This is why I was recommending a different shop. Just trying to look out for you...

I want to see you make your goal.

edited because I had names in there

Last edited by Homemade WRX; 09-25-2007 at 03:21 PM.
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Old 09-25-2007, 02:45 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by japslapr View Post
This is why I closed the thread. Initially I thought it would do some good just to show people what is done and the round about cost of doing it. Then I realized quickly that peoples opinions about the shop itself would make it in and I wanted to avoid that.
I think what you posted still has value, and you should leave it up.

Duncan
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Old 09-25-2007, 03:19 PM   #10
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I have to agree with duncan, as a lot people just look at the big hardware components. they forget all the small things and real machining costs...
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Old 09-25-2007, 03:44 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homemade WRX View Post
...people just look at the big hardware components. they forget all the small things and real machining costs...
This bites people in the butt every day, hard. The "little" stuff, including labor and tuning, usually more than doubles the project cost.
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Old 09-25-2007, 06:34 PM   #12
japslapr
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Bump for the post being fixed...

Hope this helps someone...
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Old 09-25-2007, 08:33 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by japslapr View Post
Pocket port heads, wash, mill .002 9 hrs $630
and check spring pressures and assemble.
Set up and check valve lash. Make shim list
(shimless buckets, +1mm valves)
Out of all the things you had done to your engine, this is the only one I would question...

Different shops mean different things by "pocket porting" so that may be the difference...
When I do pocket porting, I do it as part the valve job with a bowl cutter, then just blend it into the rest of the port...

If they did more than that, I would say that all of the prices are on the level...

And consider yourself lucky to get machine work for $70 an hour...
That would be a really low labor rate around here for machine work...
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Old 09-25-2007, 09:01 PM   #14
japslapr
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If I understood the machinist correctly, that is what he did. With the bigger valves he just opened up directly behind them and blended everything.

I had no clue if 70 an hour was good or bad, this is partly why I made the post initially.
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Old 09-25-2007, 09:11 PM   #15
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$70 an hour is cheap even locally...machining is usually about $100 an hour around here
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Old 09-25-2007, 10:08 PM   #16
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I appreciate this post, I am comtemplating a build or a car trade right now. Got a little oil in the coolant overflow, and some in the reservior, that just cannot be good.
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Old 09-29-2007, 02:51 AM   #17
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hey thanks for the awsome post it gave me a great baseline on motor biuld with cost.
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Old 09-29-2007, 01:41 PM   #18
japslapr
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Glad it helped.
Quote:
Originally Posted by spdfrk77 View Post
hey thanks for the awsome post it gave me a great baseline on motor biuld with cost.
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Old 09-29-2007, 04:52 PM   #19
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For what its worth it seems completely reasonable to me. My Uncle owns a machine shop and most of those prices are in line with what they charge.

Matt
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Old 09-29-2007, 06:31 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S L O W W R X View Post
For what its worth it seems completely reasonable to me. My Uncle owns a machine shop and most of those prices are in line with what they charge.

Matt


Unless you mention your name for the "I know Matt" discount
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Old 09-29-2007, 07:15 PM   #21
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Unless you mention your name for the "I know Matt" discount
LOL, this is true.
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Old 10-01-2007, 03:25 PM   #22
emiller21236
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I just went with a brand new Stage 1 block by Cobb and the Cobb Stage 2 Heads. Cost about 10 grand back on the road. Wasn't a bad deal considering I can now run 30 psi and 150 shot all day with phasing my motor!
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Old 10-01-2007, 05:18 PM   #23
japslapr
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Originally Posted by emiller21236 View Post
I just went with a brand new Stage 1 block by Cobb and the Cobb Stage 2 Heads. Cost about 10 grand back on the road. Wasn't a bad deal considering I can now run 30 psi and 150 shot all day with phasing my motor!
Which series block? Hope you're talking about the Pro series running that much boost AND a 150 shot "all day long." Even still, with a turbo capable of maintaining 30+psi.. making that power and a big shot.... is asking a lot.
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