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Old 09-24-2007, 05:11 PM   #1
Sko
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Default Limits of ECU Flashing (Enginuity)

I know about all the benefits of stand-alone systems, as well as their drawbacks, I also know the benefits and drawbacks of piggyback engine managements systems, but what I don't know a whole lot about it what the limitations of ECU Flash-Type systems are.

I know systems like the cobb-Accessport and nice because of their user-friendlyness and your still able to get custom tuned maps, etc. But what are the drawbacks of these systems?

I'm going to be using enginuity to tune my 98 wrx swapped OBS, has full dash and OBD-II port (which I've plugged into a few times and made sure it was functioning properly).

So can anyone explain the pros/cons or really the limitations of ECU Flashes, within Enginuity specifically?

Appretiate your time,

Nick
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Old 09-24-2007, 05:20 PM   #2
Master2192
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Accessport: OTS maps, street tuner software if you want to tune it yourself or you can get protuned. Real time tuning saves dyno time, can get multiple maps made that can be switched easily.

Enginuity: MUST be tuned by you or an experienced tuner, OTS maps are not considered safe and must be adjusted to your vehicle. No map switching ability at this time OR real time tuning.

Not too many cons of ECU Flashes, only ones I can think of:
1. On higher power setups the MAF sensor can be a limitation
2. Needs a new MAP sensor if you wish to use boost control past ~22-23 psi
3. misc. other issues that depend on the setup.
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Old 09-24-2007, 05:27 PM   #3
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Master: Do you know which map sensor(s) are out there and where I can find one that will play nice with the ecu and allow me to break the 22.49-22.63 barrier?
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Old 09-24-2007, 06:31 PM   #4
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Then may I ask, when does the MAF sensor become a limitation? And when it does how do we fix it so that it is not a problem?
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Old 09-24-2007, 08:06 PM   #5
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16 bit ecus are generally limited to 300 g/s - There are some hacks to this but not entirely proven yet. As far as 32 bit ecu's I'm not sure I'm sure master will probably know.
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Old 09-24-2007, 08:41 PM   #6
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i like enginuity.im new to the tuning game but am learning.with enginuity there are plenty of people that can help you out with tuning.there are ots maps that are safe xpttuning are great.there are other tuners on the enginuity forum that will make you a custom map for your set-up.
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Old 09-25-2007, 04:09 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Master2192 View Post
2. Needs a new MAP sensor if you wish to use boost control past ~22-23 psi
where did you get this information?

The stock MAP sensor will read to almost 26psi.

I run 22 PSI on my daily driven map and 24 on the race map.

I believe you are mistaking needed a new wastegate solenoid over needing a new MAP sensor.
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Old 09-25-2007, 07:43 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HndaTch627 View Post
where did you get this information?

The stock MAP sensor will read to almost 26psi.

I run 22 PSI on my daily driven map and 24 on the race map.

I believe you are mistaking needed a new wastegate solenoid over needing a new MAP sensor.
+1 for this correct info. Make sure you are not confusing the limits of the logged paramter in Enginuity (which has been since corrected) with the limits of the stock MAP sensor.

I have tuned several 22 psi Stg 2 STIs with stock components.
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Old 09-25-2007, 09:08 AM   #9
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Good point, I know merchgod had mentioned they were going to update the logger def files - I just didnt realize it was already done. I should read more often!

"MANIFOLD RELATIVE PRESSURE (DIRECT) - ame as 'Manifold Absolute Pressure (Direct)' except represented as relative pressure with the assumption of sea level. This will match the units used in the standard ECU definitions while also having no effective limit. "
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Old 09-25-2007, 09:56 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blkscooby View Post
+1 for this correct info. Make sure you are not confusing the limits of the logged paramter in Enginuity (which has been since corrected) with the limits of the stock MAP sensor.
This is NOT a limitation of Enginuity. It is a limitation of the ecu when logging SSM (Subaru Select Monitor) parameters and would occur with any logger. That is, the manifold absolute pressure variable is clipped in the conversion for SSM which is why you are limited to ~18.4 psi manifold relative pressure and ~37 psi manifold absolute pressure. This is only for logging, however. As far as the ecu is concerned, there is no limit for MAP.

With the latest Enginuity definitions, I've added the ability to log MAP, as used by the ecu, which has no effective limit (an "extended" parameter). You can log anything stored in ram via SSM. It is a little more overhead, in this case, however.
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Old 09-25-2007, 10:19 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheShad0w
16 bit ecus are generally limited to 300 g/s - There are some hacks to this but not entirely proven yet. As far as 32 bit ecu's I'm not sure I'm sure master will probably know.
There is a 400 g/s hack, but I find it much easier to leave the injector scaler at stock or 1/2 of what the actual injector size is and tune the MAF table. Either way you'll need a big maf.


Quote:
Originally Posted by HndaTch627
where did you get this information?

The stock MAP sensor will read to almost 26psi.

I run 22 PSI on my daily driven map and 24 on the race map.

I believe you are mistaking needed a new wastegate solenoid over needing a new MAP sensor.
I had no idea it would read that high, on a aftermarket MAP Sensor (TurboXS) I've read as high as 45 psi MAP using one of the test definitions that Merchgod gave me.

I've been avoiding the enginuity logger until they give me wideband support for my LM-1 and a choice of automatic full throttle logging. So far I only use it to tune boost control and get a better look at knock control.
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Old 09-25-2007, 05:11 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sko View Post
I'm going to be using enginuity to tune my 98 wrx swapped OBS, has full dash and OBD-II port (which I've plugged into a few times and made sure it was functioning properly).
1998 and older Subaru ECUs can't be reprogrammed through the diagnostic port.
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Old 09-26-2007, 01:01 AM   #13
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What are we comparing. There is a small advantage to Cobb in real time tuning that will probably be quickly be erased by the Enginuity group, but it's not worth $800+ to have the realtime tuning. I've removed quite a few Accessports because it's cheaper to tune with Enginutiy than to by Street Tuner, don't get me started on the obscene hurdles to get a Pro Tuner license.

If you tune with Enginuity, DONATE.
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Old 09-26-2007, 02:57 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon [in CT] View Post
1998 and older Subaru ECUs can't be reprogrammed through the diagnostic port.
i believe he means it's a 1998 OBS with a US WRX Swap
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