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Old 09-26-2007, 12:42 AM   #1
subajay
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Default re-using stock headstuds

I am in the process of putting my stage 2 axis block and ej20 heads together and wondering if
1. it is smart to reuse the head studs from the ej20 that threw rod bearings
2. if i should just buy apr head studs

reason why i am now asking is because money is running slim as the project ends near and wondering if i should sacrafice something else to get the apr head studs or if the stock ej20 studs will be fine...

I will be using cometic head gaskets as well. and for now just a td04 until i save more money for the fp red


thank you.
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Old 09-26-2007, 01:52 AM   #2
poormansporsche
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1. not smart
2. buy arp head studs.

cheers

poorman
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Old 09-26-2007, 03:00 AM   #3
eastcoastbumps
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poormansporsche View Post
1. not smart
2. buy arp head studs.

cheers

poorman
+1

Get new OEM head bolts at the dealer if you can't afford ARPs. Its not worth the time and money to do the job twice.
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Old 09-26-2007, 03:13 AM   #4
poormansporsche
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Very possible to get headgasket failure as the factory bolts, if reused, can stretch and fail.

cheers

poorman
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Old 09-26-2007, 07:34 AM   #5
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I would get new oem head bolts. They are more than enough for your power goals. How many stock block gt35r STI's have you heard of blowing head gaskets? For that matter how many head gasket failures have you heard of when running the stock gaskets and head bolts compared to how many there are for the ARP's and Cometics?

The reality is that you are more than likely to install the ARP's incorrectly and have issues. If you follow the service manual when you install the stock head bolts you will be fine.


Not that I recommend it but I have reused my head bolts. Even the Subaru service manual does not mention that new ones are required when installing the heads.
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Old 09-26-2007, 07:47 AM   #6
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i don't mean to whore the thread, but can ARP headstuds be reused?
thanks!
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Old 09-26-2007, 08:49 AM   #7
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ARP headstuds are supposed to bo reused.
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Old 09-26-2007, 10:56 AM   #8
subajay
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okay thanks guys that was just what i needed =-]

should i stay away from cometic head gaskets then and just get oem sti?
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Old 09-26-2007, 11:48 AM   #9
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Both are about equal.
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Old 09-26-2007, 12:47 PM   #10
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I don't think anyone is questioning the reliability of the OEM headstuds. Yes they're fine. They hold the power just fine, there's no hate. But if you're going to be pulling the block apart it's generally frowned upon to re-use the original studs. It's much safer to replace them. And if you're going to replace them ARP studs aren't that much and would be, considered by some, a worthwhile investment in safety.

If you're replacing headstuds, you're replacing headstuds. I think some general knowledge and RTFM-ability is assumed here. So he should be fine installing the ARP kit.

cheers

poorman


Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidForce View Post
I would get new oem head bolts. They are more than enough for your power goals. How many stock block gt35r STI's have you heard of blowing head gaskets? For that matter how many head gasket failures have you heard of when running the stock gaskets and head bolts compared to how many there are for the ARP's and Cometics?

The reality is that you are more than likely to install the ARP's incorrectly and have issues. If you follow the service manual when you install the stock head bolts you will be fine.


Not that I recommend it but I have reused my head bolts. Even the Subaru service manual does not mention that new ones are required when installing the heads.
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Old 09-26-2007, 08:26 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poormansporsche View Post
I don't think anyone is questioning the reliability of the OEM headstuds. Yes they're fine. They hold the power just fine, there's no hate. But if you're going to be pulling the block apart it's generally frowned upon to re-use the original studs. It's much safer to replace them. And if you're going to replace them ARP studs aren't that much and would be, considered by some, a worthwhile investment in safety.

If you're replacing headstuds, you're replacing headstuds. I think some general knowledge and RTFM-ability is assumed here. So he should be fine installing the ARP kit.

cheers

poorman

I agree about not reusing the head studs and I agree if you can read the manual and have some general knowledge that they can be installed without issue.

The problem with the ARP's is getting the right manual or instructions.

Check out the confusion on how to install them in these threads.
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1140264
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1083106


The stock head bolts install is much more straight forward. If you are going to use ARP's I would talk to a Subaru engine builder that uses them and not go by the ARP instructions.
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Old 09-26-2007, 09:13 PM   #12
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Well, as the resident cheapskate, I reuse headbolts all the time. I have never had an issue. I have used some sets upwards of 3-4 times, and one set 3 times and was pushing 30 psi... My problems tend to be breaking pistons and transmissions, not headgaskets....
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Old 09-26-2007, 11:13 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidForce View Post
I would get new oem head bolts. They are more than enough for your power goals. How many stock block gt35r STI's have you heard of blowing head gaskets? For that matter how many head gasket failures have you heard of when running the stock gaskets and head bolts compared to how many there are for the ARP's and Cometics?
Everyone I know that tracks their '04 STi has head gasket and head bolt problems. Drive one hard for 20-30 minutes (not one or two passes) and it will start pushing out coolant.
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Old 09-27-2007, 07:41 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eastcoastbumps View Post
Everyone I know that tracks their '04 STi has head gasket and head bolt problems. Drive one hard for 20-30 minutes (not one or two passes) and it will start pushing out coolant.
Are they having cooling issues? Overheating any combination of head gaskets and bolts/studs is going to cause issues.

I am helping a person with an 04 Sti that blew a headgasket on the track when he overheated. His initial problem was a pin hole in the top coolant hose.
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Old 09-28-2007, 01:38 AM   #15
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http://www.iwsti.com/forums/engine-p...d-gaskets.html

Its the same story with most of the STi's that run with my club.
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Old 09-28-2007, 03:53 AM   #16
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Count me in also, every few drives I have to check my water levels.

No need to check the overflow bottle though its always overflowing.
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Old 10-07-2007, 11:43 AM   #17
subajay
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another question roughly how much are oem head studs i searched online couldn't find a price going to the dealer tomm to get head studs water pump and timing belt... thanks
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Old 10-07-2007, 01:57 PM   #18
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There are two types of bolts/studs. You have your normal bolts, then you have your torque to yeild bolts, for example, our head bolts. They are torqued to a specific points and then givin a torque angle specification. This stretches the bolt and makes it un-reusable.

I reused headbolts once, headgasket blew a month or two later. Now i got me ARP's
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Old 10-09-2007, 12:54 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turboL View Post
There are two types of bolts/studs. You have your normal bolts, then you have your torque to yeild bolts, for example, our head bolts. They are torqued to a specific points and then givin a torque angle specification. This stretches the bolt and makes it un-reusable.

I reused headbolts once, headgasket blew a month or two later. Now i got me ARP's
\
I checked with several reputable/competent sources during my build and all said the factory studs are NOT stretch bolts. Were they wrong? My HG went after build one bc I cheaped out on not having the heads checked and milled. Reused the new studs I bought on build #2 with ZERO issues. Prove me wrong.
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Old 10-11-2007, 11:31 AM   #20
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there ARE ways to check how much the stud has stretched, you know.
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Old 10-24-2007, 12:09 AM   #21
Patrick Olsen
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This is as good a thread as any to ask this - anyone have the part number(s) for the stock head bolts for a DOHC N/A EJ25? And are they any different than the turbo EJ25?

Looking on Summit's site for the ARP head studs they seem to show just one that covers all the EJ20/22/25 engines, but this post by Jeremy @ Cobb lists two significantly different studs for turbo and non-turbo. I's confused.

Honestly, for my N/A build I'm sure I don't need the ARP head studs, but I haven't been able to determine how much the OEM head bolts cost in comparison.

Thanks,
Pat Olsen
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Old 10-24-2007, 12:51 AM   #22
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yes, the sohc na ej25 has different head stud lenght...although the phase 1 ej25 should be the same as the other dohc heads...
I don't know for certain.
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Old 10-24-2007, 07:03 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homemade WRX View Post
yes, the sohc na ej25 has different head stud lenght...although the phase 1 ej25 should be the same as the other dohc heads...
I don't know for certain.
*thumbs up* you are correct the phase I ej25 DOHC studs are the same length.
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Old 10-25-2007, 12:17 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Olsen View Post
This is as good a thread as any to ask this - anyone have the part number(s) for the stock head bolts for a DOHC N/A EJ25?
Part number for the EJ25D head bolt is 11095AA041. MSRP is ~$10 each, you can get them from the various online parts discount dealers for ~$7.50 each. So about $90 for the OEM bolts vs. $190 for the ARP studs - for my purposes, I think the OEM bolts will be just fine.

Pat
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Old 10-25-2007, 09:58 AM   #25
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Looking in the FSM for my 2001 2.5RS I don't see where it calls for the bolts to be replaced. Usually it will say to replace the bolts if they are one use only. With most of the stuff I build at work we get factory race manuals in addition to the standard ones and they usually allow for more uses than the factory manual since you can keep track of torque cycles. Like with Honda rod bolts the FSM says one use only but the race manual says 10 cycles.

Another thing that will help sealing with MLS gaskets is to torque it once then back it off and do it again, especially with Cometic's. If the gasket is cut where it's stamped to seal around the chamber that's a sign of not having enough torque to hold the head down.
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