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Old 09-27-2007, 09:31 AM   #1
Visconti
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Member#: 156247
Join Date: Aug 2007
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Norwalk, CT
Vehicle:
14' Flex Fuel FXT
15' Flex Fuel WRX

Default The Shop: vf-30 wrx with WBR intercooler + intake TEST

This car belongs to a good customer of ours here at “The Shop”. Thankfully he was willing to let us use his car to test the before and after of a Wbr front mount intercooler + Wbr cold air intake(witch we sell pm for details). The car is a 2002 bugeye wrx. Stock motor, stock clutch(witch was a limiting factor), stock trans.

Before Mods:
Vf – 30
Sti topmount (now for sale pm me)
Arc cold air box (now for sale pm me)
Zerosport air box – turbo inlet connection pipe
Bpm Turbo back (twin tip)
Perrin crank pully
Turbo xs utec – running sd - Junior tuned
Sti pink injectors
Walbro 255lph pump (6 years old)
@20.5 psi

After mods:
Vf – 30
Wbr front mount intercooler
Wbr cold air intake
Zerosport air box – turbo inlet connection pipe
Bpm Turbo back (twin tip)
Perrin crank pully
Turbo xs utec – running sd - Junior tuned
Sti pink injectors
Walbro 255lph pump (6 years old)
@20.5psi dropping to 17-18 due to clutch slipping

DYNO GRAPHS AND THOUGHTS:
The first graph is to show the power increase and torque increase we received by changing from the sti top mount to the Wbr Front mount + intake setup. The car was a tiny bit laggyer then the Top mount but we were expecting that and you have to take into consideration that the clutch was slipping and boost was dropping off shortly after it hit. The second graph is the whp/boost graph. As you can see the turbo hit then fell off because it was slipping the clutch.






ON THE STREET:
On the street the car felt good. The clutch didnt slip on the street and we were able to fine tune it with 2 more psi of boost bringing it back up to the normal 20-21 psi we were running before. Wish the clutch held out to see what it would have realy made but all in all car felt good. The car was a littl bit laggyer.
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Old 09-27-2007, 11:50 AM   #2
Phatron
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Default

Looks like the FMIC added 6-800 rpm of lag.

Was the car dyno'd the same day? Or is the STi top mount plot from the middle of the summer?

These plots just prove to me that running a FMIC with a VF series turbo is definately not worth the money or the lag.
Hitting peak boost on a VF turbo at 4600 rpm is ridiculous. My 60-1 hit 22 psi by 4400rpm on pump gas & fmic.
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Old 09-27-2007, 12:27 PM   #3
Greekkid
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Default the shop

The clutch was slipping bad !! Great tune buy Junior A ++ The shop did A great job Thanks again Boys .
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Old 09-27-2007, 12:29 PM   #4
Visconti
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15' Flex Fuel WRX

Default

Like stated above the clutch was slipping and affected it a little. Peak boost on the car with the front mount was at 4k rpm. The 2.0 liters + front mounts deff add lag but the added power through out makes up for it depending how you are going to use the car. On the street the lag was not as noticable as some would think. We actualy set the boost to 18 but it spiked a little when it slipped. On the street we were able to put the boost back up to 20 with no slip.
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Old 09-27-2007, 12:33 PM   #5
Crazy D
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
Looks like the FMIC added 6-800 rpm of lag.

Was the car dyno'd the same day? Or is the STi top mount plot from the middle of the summer?

These plots just prove to me that running a FMIC with a VF series turbo is definately not worth the money or the lag.
Hitting peak boost on a VF turbo at 4600 rpm is ridiculous. My 60-1 hit 22 psi by 4400rpm on pump gas & fmic.
plus one on that...
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Old 09-27-2007, 12:36 PM   #6
Visconti
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15' Flex Fuel WRX

Default

The car was tuned with the top mount then after about 1-2 weeks brought back for the front mount.
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Old 09-27-2007, 01:13 PM   #7
Phatron
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2006 STi GTX3582 + Meth

Default

So we have plots from different days, a slipping clutch (that magically repaired itself on the road), a 10whp difference and more lag.

Where is the link to these items, I am sold!

$1500 for 10whp

I would rather have a 20g and an alky kit and get 100whp & 100 ft*lbs for the same price.
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Old 09-27-2007, 02:12 PM   #8
Visconti
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15' Flex Fuel WRX

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greekkid View Post
The clutch was slipping bad !! Great tune buy Junior A ++ The shop did A great job Thanks again Boys .

This is the owner himself stating it as well. The clutch did slip on the dyno @20psi. On the street it did not slip, for what reason i dont know. The car actualy made 15-17 more whp with 2psi less boost. I think that is a good gain. and the extra stuff was only 1150 not 1500. And your right Phatron a 20g would give you great power for less money. But that is not what the customer wants. The customer is not trying to push the limits with his car he just wanted to try a comparison(i dont think his 2002 tranny would take that much more abuse from a 20g). Getting the front mount is also a good stepping stone for getting a 20g down the road.
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Old 09-27-2007, 02:38 PM   #9
Greekkid
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First alchy is way overkill for me rite now its a weekend car runs 93 and makes great power . The car will be getting a 20 or 18 g but 317 with a 6 year old vf 30 and original clutch tranny I think is very good .
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Old 09-27-2007, 03:08 PM   #10
Phatron
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2006 STi GTX3582 + Meth

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greekkid View Post
First alchy is way overkill for me rite now its a weekend car runs 93 and makes great power . The car will be getting a 20 or 18 g but 317 with a 6 year old vf 30 and original clutch tranny I think is very good .
No doubt.

If its just a weekend car, then maybe just get the alky and bypass the 20g. The alky is cheaper and you can switch it off whenever you want.

I was just trying to suggest cheaper routes for others that may read this thread. I bet you got that vf30 for $2-400. When I bought my vf34 it was $1200. And I also was running a FMIC with mine for a while and from what i remember it was noticeably laggier with the FMIC. A lot of people always say, "Well its not as laggy on the street" and I say No, but its still laggier by the same delta as it was on the dyno. It may not be as laggy in the sense that it will hit peak boost sooner on the street under load, but so would the original top mount plot too. I say the delta is the same and its laggier. Mine was very noticeable. If you have 15 feet of pipe to pressurize it will take longer than it would to pressurize 6 inches.

Just trying to make people think about what the goal is for their car before they jump in and start throwing $$ around.

I'd like to see a plot of a 20g or green on a STi with no other mods (no exhaust, no intake, etc) just a completely stock STi with a turbo. Would be interesting to see.

Last edited by Phatron; 09-27-2007 at 03:15 PM.
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Old 09-27-2007, 03:24 PM   #11
Greekkid
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Default wbr

Phatron youre rite dollar for dollar there are better options . The alchy thing still makes me nervous . The wbr is overkill for the vf 30 but not overkill for a 18g or maybe the 20 g But $$ wise i have to do things in stages Its not the rite way but life sucks .
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Old 09-27-2007, 04:20 PM   #12
jblaine
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stage-infinity.com

Default

* I've never seen ONE Dyno Dynamics setup report boost/torque at an RPM that corresponds to the real world on the street. Lag on every Dyno Dynamics plot I have ever seen is GROSSLY exaggerated. I don't know why or care why. I'm not questioning that the FMIC setup was laggier, just don't read the dyno plots for what they show exactly, especially with a slipping clutch.

* The benefits of adding a properly-sized-for-turbo FMIC are FAR more involved than "Oh he only gained 10whp for $1500" especially with IATs being measured pre-turbo.

* With the clutch problem not evident on the street and boost holding 20psi to redline, you're more likely looking at 10-15whp from 4000-7000RPM. Whether that's, along with the other benefits of a FMIC, is worth $1500 or not is up to each person's wallet.

I'm not saying TMICs suck, nor am I saying FMICs rule. Just don't oversimplify the situation.
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Old 09-27-2007, 05:05 PM   #13
Phatron
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2006 STi GTX3582 + Meth

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greekkid View Post
But $$ wise i have to do things in stages Its not the rite way but life sucks .
lol. same here. thats why i had all my parts sitting in boxes in my garage for so long cause i couldnt afford the tune

its ultimate bench racing when your parts are actually on the bench
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Old 09-27-2007, 05:10 PM   #14
Phatron
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2006 STi GTX3582 + Meth

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jblaine View Post
I'm not saying TMICs suck, nor am I saying FMICs rule. Just don't oversimplify the situation.
TMIC + Meth for the win

Easier to uninstall when you have to go to the cali state smog referee.
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Old 09-27-2007, 07:28 PM   #15
rjrutzky
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OK long day at work, but I am confused here. In the first chart pull#014 spools faster and has less top end than pull #034. The second looks the opposite. Maybe I'm losing it. I apologize if I am.
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Old 09-28-2007, 01:05 AM   #16
Phatron
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2006 STi GTX3582 + Meth

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i saw that too and thought i figured it out. dont remember now.

the boost follows the pre-fmic plots. dont know why it goes out to 7k rpm like the fmic plot. seems someone was fudging with something?
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Old 09-28-2007, 08:33 AM   #17
Visconti
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15' Flex Fuel WRX

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The red line on all the graphs is the tmic. The blue line shows the front mount. The car was slipping and i believe thats the reason the boost shot up so easy but yet the power wasnt there. I am going to have to ask junior on that, because he was running the car on the dyno and he would know better. The blue chart has more top end and power in every graph through just starts a bit latter.
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