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Old 01-15-2002, 04:25 PM   #1
bcristea
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Default 1000 mile oil change: Dealer says no way!

Just a comment,

I went to the dealer (Subaru) for an oil change and when he pulled my car in he says "we can't change the oil because you car only has 1020 miles on it"

They would not do the work because they say there is break in oil in it?

Anybody else run into this?

I know I can change it myself but I want to do whats best.

I was just suprised that they would not do it.

Brian
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Old 01-15-2002, 05:35 PM   #2
Tainted
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Break in oil eh? Never heard of anything like that. Oh well I changed my oil at 500, 750, 1000, 1500, 2500, 4500, 6000, 9000. I like it clean. Now I have begun a normal oil change schedule.

Anyone ever heard of break in oil?

I like to change the oil alot durring break in so that all mettal shavings that are from the rings and cylinders gets out. I know that engines have a magnet to aid in this but I doubt fresh oil hurts a car, ever.
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Old 01-15-2002, 06:17 PM   #3
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Default break in oil

Years ago the factory would use a light weight non-detergent oil and call it a break in oil.

The break in process is actually a controlled "wear in" process. You are letting the mating parts wear each other slightly to eliminate any small production tight spots.

Not sure if any one actually does this any more, but thats the theory.

As most people think of it, break in is mostly to let the compression rings form a good seal with the cylinder walls. This ring seating process depends on how you drive. It takes brief periods of high engine load to get the rings to seat properly. If you have been driving it like a grandmother, get some more miles on it. If you (like most of us) have jumped on it a few times, you can probably make your first oil change now if thats what you want to do.

In my opinion, most car enthusiasts change oil far more often than they need to. You should change oil based on how long its been in the engine. Lots of miles on the highway are much easier on the oil than slow stop and go driving. Many experts recommend changing oil every 3 months, I do it every 6 months.

(of course thats with synthetic oil)

I did my first oil change at 2000 with no problems. I went to Mobil 1 on that first change.

Larry
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Old 01-15-2002, 07:02 PM   #4
NightmareOnSubySt
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The service schedule states that the first oil/filter change should be done at 3 mos./3000 miles. Have you had your car for 3 mos.? That's the only reason I can think of that they would refuse to do an oil change for you.
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Old 01-16-2002, 01:32 AM   #5
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Subaru and the dealers seem to commonly recommend waiting to 3,000 miles.

I've never been able to get confirmation of the oil put in by the factory.

You will also notice the motor becomes smoother at around 2000-2500 miles.

There is certainly no harm in waiting till 3000 miles.
(conversely hard to prove any benefit either).

Glenn
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Old 01-19-2002, 03:38 AM   #6
Iain
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My 2002 WRX service schedule states that the first oil change is done at 6000 km. The dealer confirmed this saying that the car has break-in oil in it initially and "not" to change it out until the first service.
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Old 01-19-2002, 03:36 PM   #7
cantex
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Default yes virginia, there is special break in oil

all new cars come form the factory with a break in oil. it contains zddp, which in essence acts like sandpaper to remove small burrs on metal to ensure the parts fit together smoothly. you do not need use this for the first 300 miles, but in years the grooving can cause loss oil burning and loss of compression.
a lot of engineers design every aspect of a car. and there typically is a reason why cars are built the way they are.
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Old 01-19-2002, 04:44 PM   #8
hotrod
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Default zddp is a high pressure lubricant , not an abrasive

ZDDP (zinc dialkyldithiophosphate) Is a high pressure lubricant additive. it forms a molecular thin layer on metal surfaces and prevents "pressure welding" of small surface imprefections.

This allows normal wear processes to burnish away these imperfections without destroying the metal surface in the process.

When pressure welding occures a small imperfection momentarily welds itself to the other metal surface it is running against. It then tears a chunk of metal out of one of the two bearing surfaces and that gets plowed across the bearing surface like snow building up in front of a snow plow. This is what causes "scoring" of bearings or cylinder walls.

You will find ZDDP in things like break-in lubricant for new cam shaft and lifter kits.

It is hard on catalytic converters so normal oil has less of it than it used to.

Years ago General Motors came out with an additive called EOS (Engine Oil Suppliment). They developed it to deal with valve train problems in the Chevy 409 V8. This stuff is incredibly slick. In the late 1960s you would void your warranty on a new Crane cam shaft if you didn't use the stuff as an assembly lube with moly disulphide.

I had a friend that built up a high performance porche engine, and put EOS in it new. He drove all the way to Phoenix Az and had to drain the oil, because the EOS wouldn't let the rings seat in nearly 900 miles of highway driving.

It is still available but is now sold as an assembly lube only, not as an oil additive.
I strongly suspect that the main ingredient in this stuff is ZDDP, because I know it will kill your catalytic converter if you pour a bunch of it in the crankcase.

ZDDP is _not_ abrasive, it just allows wear to occur with out destroying the engine. 99.9 % of this wear takes place in the first few miles the car sees. especially the first few times it is driven hard.

Larry
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Old 01-19-2002, 06:24 PM   #9
Happy REX
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Don't know about this break in oil business but my dealer includes a free oil/filter change at 1600km so I can't see there being any problem with it.
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Old 01-19-2002, 06:31 PM   #10
cantex
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Default well said

there is a fine line in how much zddp to add to engine oil. too much and it creates noxious fumes and breaks down the cats.
mobil 1 recently increased the amount in it's formulation.
i recommend valvoline semi synthetic.
i personally use motul for the its heat dissipation.

i wish we could keep your posting as a sticky.

this is too important to anyone who wants to keep their car longer than 2 yrs

and for the kids who have posted their uneducated opinions about break in oils, their lack of understanding about automotive liquids does more harm to people who really want to know what to do
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Old 01-20-2002, 12:42 AM   #11
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Quote:
and for the kids who have posted their uneducated opinions about break in oils, their lack of understanding about automotive liquids does more harm to people who really want to know what to do
Oh, I guess we should only let experts like you post?
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Old 01-20-2002, 01:15 PM   #12
cantex
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not everyone can be an expert on every subject.
yes, i am saying that (even with the best of intentions) uneducated opinions can cause more harm than good.
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Old 01-21-2002, 02:03 AM   #13
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Does anyone have experience with the Neo synthetic oils? I have heard many excellent things about them, but no technical data to analyze.
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Old 01-21-2002, 10:56 AM   #14
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Quote:
not everyone can be an expert on every subject.
yes, i am saying that (even with the best of intentions) uneducated opinions can cause more harm than good.
I am so glad we have you around to judge who is uneducated or not.

How about presenting your own opinion for what it is worth and leaving it at that, eh?

Glenn
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Old 01-22-2002, 08:32 PM   #15
DN
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I asked my dealer to change the oil just past 1K and they complied without a peep.
Strange thing is in the UK Subaru recommends changing oil at 1K to get rid of the thin break-in oil so they must use something else here.

David
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Old 01-22-2002, 10:05 PM   #16
Keith99RS
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Default Damn High School Diploma!!!

Just wait another 1000 miles, you won't hurt anything, or if it matters that much, just do it yourself or take it to a local quick lube. But that is just my uneducated opinion. Sorry for not cluttering this thread with non technical engine break in additive assembly lube information that in no way applies to the car or the topic.
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Old 01-28-2002, 12:54 AM   #17
sajohnson
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Default Oh, Wise Guy Eh?!!

Damn highschool educated punk!!
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Old 01-28-2002, 06:25 PM   #18
WRXTC-GOTBOOST
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Default Re: well said

Quote:
Originally posted by cantex
there is a fine line in how much zddp to add to engine oil. too much and it creates noxious fumes and breaks down the cats.
mobil 1 recently increased the amount in it's formulation.
i recommend valvoline semi synthetic.
i personally use motul for the its heat dissipation.

cantex

Please clarify I have not used Mobile 1 oil for break in oil since the first time we tried. Myself and Pleanty of Very good (professional) engien builders found that using mobile 1 in brand new motors (or fresh rebuilds) was not allowing the rings to seat. Many other issues with synth oils related to application are in the know on M1 oil or how did you get the information?

Two comment people have made ot me about there experiences with M!

M1 can crystalize at extream temp. like in your turbo if you shut it down HOT HOT.

I use M1 10/30 in my car for most street cars I think it the best answer. If I was going to use something else it would be Valvoline conventional oil.
Bearings in big (over 2000 HP)motors dont seem to live well. " The M1 oil dose not have enough body to absorb impact of rod changing direction"
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