What kind of plugs are these?

HamFist · 10-06-2007, 09:02 PM

I was goofing off looking for different racing plug designs and found these. Anybody know anything? Is this a rotary specific plug?

From here:

http://www.silverbulletrx7.com/plugs/

* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

Homemade WRX · 10-06-2007, 09:08 PM

interesting and new to me...I know my buddies rx7 didn't have plugs like that but he also had the first year the 13b engine came factory

HamFist · 10-06-2007, 09:15 PM

They have a bunch of different designs listed on that link. I'm curious if anyone has tried something new-ish like these on our cars lately.

shvrdavid · 10-07-2007, 11:03 AM

Believe it or not, this type of plug has been around for a long time...
They are designed to put up with very high combustion temps...

If you use a standard plug in an engine with excessive combustion temps, the tang(s) that the plug spark jumps to will retain so much heat that it causes detonation... It will act like a glow plug, instead of a spark plug...

This design plug has enough metal exposed to the combustion chamber to move the heat out of itself rather quickly...

The advantage of this style plug is that you can run a hotter plug without risking detonation...

NGK makes lots of these plugs, here is the catolog for them NGK Racing Plugs Type e firing end is basically the same as the ones pictured (surface gap)...

Autolite and Champion also have these plugs available...

HamFist · 10-07-2007, 03:08 PM

Call me crazy, but if I can get enough heat removed from the combustion chamber, I can run lean and not detonate OR run hot?

How well do they do this task you speak of? I don't think I've ever seen a thread on here about racing plugs and thorough ignition options. Stock coils run 10's+11's. But, high boost can still blow out the plug. I don't "need" more spark with E85, but I'm curious what it would do. IF it can run leaner and not suffer the consequences, or at least widen the window of good operation, this would be a very good thing.

That plug also introduces the flame front differently. The tang doesn't sit in the middle of the flame kernel. The picture looks like a funky +4 plug. I could try a set of these on my beater and see what happens. I'm just curious enough. It can't be that expensive to try.

shvrdavid · 10-07-2007, 05:37 PM

I have not run them in my Subaru, yet, I will in the engine I am working on now gets put in the car...

One more benefit I should mention about these plugs is that they don't protrude much at all into the chamber...

As far as how well they work...

I have used the this style plug in many engines, none of them reacted quite the same way...

Consider them like any other change you make, you have to tune for it to get the best out of it...
If you have access to a gas analyzer, you can look for increased No2 production as an indication of the combustion temp... (if you running gasoline)...

I am not sure what to look for with E85...
I haven't tuned much with it yet...
There are not very many places to buy it around here yet...

The ignition may be a problem an our boxers with these plugs...
You cannot adjust the gap...
I am not sure how well they will do, or what the output is of the factory coils...
Does anyone know how many joules they put out???

HamFist · 10-07-2007, 10:48 PM

E85 fouls at idle if they are too cold just like gas. But, it runs great with hotter plugs. You won't get carbon so much as a whitish film on the plugs. That could have been my Mobil-1 oil, though. Hotter plugs were perfectly clean on my car after 5k miles on E85. The ignition on our cars is good. However, I knew I was getting a little plug fouling at idle with colder NGK plugs, but the top end made ALL the difference in the world. I can't wait to get my baby back together

.

Ethanol fuel removes heat as it evaporates in the combustion chamber. I gapped mine tight because they were colder plugs. If the gap is longer I don't see that as a problem. But, where are the specs for the gap? .35-.42 works fine for me with normal NGK BKR7E11 plugs. It looks as though you can also choose among heat ranges in these styles of plugs. I don't think we beat plugs to death lke a rotary, but a little extra oomph wouldn't hurt.

10-06-2007, 09:02 PM	#1
HamFist Scooby Specialist Member#: 2112 Join Date: Aug 2000 Chapter/Region: MWSOC	What kind of plugs are these? I was goofing off looking for different racing plug designs and found these. Anybody know anything? Is this a rotary specific plug? From here: http://www.silverbulletrx7.com/plugs/ * Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

10-06-2007, 09:08 PM	#2
Homemade WRX Scooby Guru Member#: 33782 Join Date: Mar 2003 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: 3MI Racing LLC Vehicle: 96 bastard child search FIRST, then PM!!!	interesting and new to me...I know my buddies rx7 didn't have plugs like that but he also had the first year the 13b engine came factory Last edited by Homemade WRX; 10-06-2007 at 09:14 PM.

10-07-2007, 03:08 PM	#5
HamFist Scooby Specialist Member#: 2112 Join Date: Aug 2000 Chapter/Region: MWSOC	Call me crazy, but if I can get enough heat removed from the combustion chamber, I can run lean and not detonate OR run hot? How well do they do this task you speak of? I don't think I've ever seen a thread on here about racing plugs and thorough ignition options. Stock coils run 10's+11's. But, high boost can still blow out the plug. I don't "need" more spark with E85, but I'm curious what it would do. IF it can run leaner and not suffer the consequences, or at least widen the window of good operation, this would be a very good thing. That plug also introduces the flame front differently. The tang doesn't sit in the middle of the flame kernel. The picture looks like a funky +4 plug. I could try a set of these on my beater and see what happens. I'm just curious enough. It can't be that expensive to try. Last edited by HamFist; 10-07-2007 at 03:18 PM.

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10-06-2007, 09:15 PM	#3
HamFist Scooby Specialist Member#: 2112 Join Date: Aug 2000 Chapter/Region: MWSOC	They have a bunch of different designs listed on that link. I'm curious if anyone has tried something new-ish like these on our cars lately.

10-07-2007, 11:03 AM	#4
shvrdavid Scooby Specialist Member#: 86078 Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Central Pa. Vehicle: 2005 Sti 4094R Twin Scroll	Believe it or not, this type of plug has been around for a long time... They are designed to put up with very high combustion temps... If you use a standard plug in an engine with excessive combustion temps, the tang(s) that the plug spark jumps to will retain so much heat that it causes detonation... It will act like a glow plug, instead of a spark plug... This design plug has enough metal exposed to the combustion chamber to move the heat out of itself rather quickly... The advantage of this style plug is that you can run a hotter plug without risking detonation... NGK makes lots of these plugs, here is the catolog for them NGK Racing Plugs Type e firing end is basically the same as the ones pictured (surface gap)... Autolite and Champion also have these plugs available...

10-07-2007, 05:37 PM	#6
shvrdavid Scooby Specialist Member#: 86078 Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Central Pa. Vehicle: 2005 Sti 4094R Twin Scroll	I have not run them in my Subaru, yet, I will in the engine I am working on now gets put in the car... One more benefit I should mention about these plugs is that they don't protrude much at all into the chamber... As far as how well they work... I have used the this style plug in many engines, none of them reacted quite the same way... Consider them like any other change you make, you have to tune for it to get the best out of it... If you have access to a gas analyzer, you can look for increased No2 production as an indication of the combustion temp... (if you running gasoline)... I am not sure what to look for with E85... I haven't tuned much with it yet... There are not very many places to buy it around here yet... The ignition may be a problem an our boxers with these plugs... You cannot adjust the gap... I am not sure how well they will do, or what the output is of the factory coils... Does anyone know how many joules they put out???

10-07-2007, 10:48 PM	#7
HamFist Scooby Specialist Member#: 2112 Join Date: Aug 2000 Chapter/Region: MWSOC	E85 fouls at idle if they are too cold just like gas. But, it runs great with hotter plugs. You won't get carbon so much as a whitish film on the plugs. That could have been my Mobil-1 oil, though. Hotter plugs were perfectly clean on my car after 5k miles on E85. The ignition on our cars is good. However, I knew I was getting a little plug fouling at idle with colder NGK plugs, but the top end made ALL the difference in the world. I can't wait to get my baby back together . Ethanol fuel removes heat as it evaporates in the combustion chamber. I gapped mine tight because they were colder plugs. If the gap is longer I don't see that as a problem. But, where are the specs for the gap? .35-.42 works fine for me with normal NGK BKR7E11 plugs. It looks as though you can also choose among heat ranges in these styles of plugs. I don't think we beat plugs to death lke a rotary, but a little extra oomph wouldn't hurt.