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Old 01-16-2002, 01:49 AM   #1
blkwag
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Default TurboXS stage 2 dyno #'s using stock muffler?

I like to know if anyone has actually dynoed a TurboXS stage 2 setup using the stock WRX rear muffler section.

I'm willing to give up a few ponies for a stock sounding car.

I'm looking for some solid evidence and not the usual "I heard" or "Mark told me there's minimal loss".

Thanks for any info.
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Old 01-16-2002, 08:20 AM   #2
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call Mark at TurboXS and ask...he would most likely have info..
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Old 01-16-2002, 01:41 PM   #3
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this is pointless

Last edited by BOP; 12-04-2002 at 02:22 PM.
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Old 01-16-2002, 01:51 PM   #4
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Lightbulb I think..

I was at TurboXS about a month ago and Phil told me the rear section was only worth about 2-5hp, but a dyno # would be alot more accurite, so don't qoute me. Just some helpful info to give an idea

:monkey: Just my 2cents :monkey: .....Thanks












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Old 01-16-2002, 05:51 PM   #5
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They are about four weeks behind on email, according to Mark, as of today
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Old 01-16-2002, 05:58 PM   #6
phast
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And 4 weeks backlog on Stage2 shipments as well

Ah well.. patience is a virtue or something.
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Old 01-16-2002, 06:06 PM   #7
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They seem to be also behind on voicemails too since I have left a couple messages and haven't gotten a call back yet.

I know they are busy and I fully understand, and that is the reason why I posted to see if someone else already had the data.

If calling them was really that easy, I would've already had the info that I needed.

I guess that's what happens when you have a great product on your hands.

Has anyone with a sensitive butt done any back-to-back full throttle runs using the normal stage 2 system and the stage 2 using stock muffler?

I would like to know something before I invest $$ into getting a 3" flange and reducer welded to my factory rear section.
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Old 01-16-2002, 08:17 PM   #8
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I was under the impression (from emails from Mark) that the stage 2 exhaust parts bolted up to the stock muffler. The stage 1 is simply a muffler and bolts up to the stock exhaust so I'm not sure why they would put something in stage 2 that doesn't work with that. Doesn't their midpipe go 3->2.5" (or whatever the stock WRX pipe is)?
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Old 01-16-2002, 11:01 PM   #9
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You are correct, but I have the BPM turboback which is 3" piping all the way back to the muffler. So this requires that I get a 3" flange and reducer welded onto my stock rear section to work with the 3" BPM mid-pipe.
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Old 01-17-2002, 12:44 PM   #10
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Dyno #'s of a stage 2 car with the XS rear section vs the stock rear section would be great. It would be nice if XS could do it for us since I'm sure they have the means, and the know how to swap the pipe in about 10 minutes. While they're at it, it would be nice if they could record a .wav of their exhaust so we can get an idea of volume and tone.

Jeff C.
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Old 01-17-2002, 02:35 PM   #11
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hey Dave, quit being so cheap and just get it done, if you don't like it... just bolt the BPM muffler back on! Bajeeesus!
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Old 01-17-2002, 05:40 PM   #12
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I have the TXS Stage II...the midpipe terminus is 2 1/2" so the only mufflers that I think will fit at the present are :

1. stock muffler
2. scoobysport
3. stromung

I run the stock muffler at present and the car is very strong. I have emailed Mark to ask if he'd be interested in dynoing stock vs the Stromung which I am getting pretty much just for a more satisfying sound (but not as loud as the scooby sport). I'm gonna take a $ 500. flyer to try this out...if I don't like it I'll just have to eat the cost.

I would be pleased to post charts if I can get this set up. Look, I've been to Mark's place (he personally did the Stage II install as a test for fitment on my car). I think he'll be interested in the comparison as well.
Also, I would urge urge everyone to recognize that we may spend some $ and not get perfect results on first try cause almost everything is new and all answers are not known yet.

spd wgn
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Old 01-17-2002, 05:57 PM   #13
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Thumbs up

Sounds good spd wgn. Is the muffler that comes with the whole stage II system the Stromung? I also don't get what you mean by takeing a $500 flyer. The Stromung muffler section isn't $500 is it?
Please do encourage Mark to do this test...I think it will affect a lot of poeples decisions as far as what to do, and if they will go for the stage II setup because they don't want a lound exhaust. So, if they know they can get all but 1-3 hp by staying with the stock muffler, they (me included!) will go for the rest of the stage II setup.
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Old 01-17-2002, 11:33 PM   #14
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the whole stage II comes with Marks muffler which I believe is a Magnaflow
my prob is that its a single outlet and I want to look completely stock so Stromung is only choice for aftermarket muffler.
Mark will sell the whole Stage II system without muffler (he deducts muffler cost)
by "Taking a flyer means" that I'll risk $ 479. (yes that's the price)+ shipping to try Stromung, and if I don't like the sound, I'll have spend good $$ for something I don't want and will have to use stock til something else is made.

hope this is helpful explanation
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Old 01-17-2002, 11:57 PM   #15
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Yeah, thanks, that's helpful. (WOW, $500 for a muffler section!).
Now, Mark, please get us some comparrison dynos and some sound clips!
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Old 01-18-2002, 09:38 PM   #16
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I'm running an open exhaust with a stock muffler. The sound is perfect for me. It's just a little louder than stock, but not much. I'm sticking with the stock muffler for stealth reasons!!! The only way someone would look twice at my car are the prodrive brakes and OZ P1 wheels. So much for stealth eh?!!!

Scoob.
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Old 01-18-2002, 09:56 PM   #17
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ezatnova:

the more I think about it, the more I feel that its not Mark"s responsibility to prove the benefits of any muffler (other than his own)

Stromung should be interested in the dyno figures...if its a good product, good dyno figures will help sell it and then they make the $$. They ought to sponsor a few dyno runs: Stomung vs stock or Stromung vs other mufflers.

spd wgn
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Old 01-19-2002, 12:45 AM   #18
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Spd wgn:

I don't think Mark should have to delv into the Stromung field at all. I would simply like to see a solid dyno comparrison between the XS system with the stock muffler rear section versus the XS system with their own rear section. I know this is not a "responsibility", but it would be nice...and certainly more easily produced by XS themselves than anynone else.
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Old 01-19-2002, 10:14 AM   #19
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Quote:
I'm running an open exhaust with a stock muffler.
This does not make any sense to me. Can someone explain?

If you can do any tests Spd Wgn, that would be great.

Like I said before, it would be a conflict of interest for Mark to show the dyno #'s between the stock and TurboXS muffler if the results were very close since I'm sure he would like to sell his muffler with the kit. But, having a third party do some testing between mufflers...

Keep us posted.

BTW Spd Wgn, when you said "I run the stock muffler at present and the car is very strong. " Did you ever run the TurboXS muffler before you ran the stock muffler? If so, what was your set-up? "Very strong" meaning no noticable difference between the TurboXS and stock muffler?

Thanks again.
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Old 01-19-2002, 10:48 AM   #20
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Sorry, when I said open exhaust, I mean no cats.

Scoob.
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Old 01-19-2002, 01:41 PM   #21
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I did not run TXS muffler at all...just stock..

My understanding, and this is from several sources including Mark at TXS, and numerous postings on I Club:
a muffler has far less either + or - effect on hp/torque than these variables:

1. downpipe
2. # of cats: 3 cats vs 2 vs 1 (or of course, 0 cats)
3. up pipe
4. general restrictiveness & construction of entire exhaust system

horsepower gain vs stock of any aftermarket muffler probably is 5 hp, but at what rpm/torque level only dyno can tell and there's probably some variation car to car. And if its only at top end, it may not be important enough to override sound issue.

so, I'm back to my basic point: there needs to be an apples to apples comparison. Since there seem to be only 5 muffler choices that fit for both stock system and Mark's turbo back ( TXS muffler, stock, Stromung, Scoobysport, STI) there should be shootout AND they should all be tested on the same car.

I think the each muffler maker should sponsor this by giving Mark or whoever might like to donate the dyno time a production run sample (as opposed to a hand picked one) to dyno on both a stock car and a chipped one.

any other way of doing this has way too many variables to make sense of.

is anyone willing to get to all the vendors to make this happen?

certainly would get a lot of interest from I clubbers and probably would mean $$$ sales for "winning" muffler I'm sure.

spd wgn
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Old 01-19-2002, 02:06 PM   #22
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I was just curious why Turboxs did a 4" dp 3" mp and then a 2.5" muffler. Wouldn't you lose the benifits of having the larger exhaust by going down to 2.5". I know you remove one of the cats and of course that helps. I was just wondering because I love Turboxs stuff, but if I'm going to get better performanc out of a full 3" system then I will go with that. Thanks guys.
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Old 01-19-2002, 04:29 PM   #23
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scoobysport (UK) which has a lot of experience with this, uses the same "taper down." I believe the TurboXS system was designed in Australia which has a lot of experience to go on also.

there's been a lot of discussion on the forums about 2 1/2" vs 3" etc and no definiftive conclusion as far as I can tell.

the dyno charts show 222 whp (stage II) vs 168 stock for Marks package. My guess is that going to 3" doesn't really improve on that.

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Old 01-19-2002, 10:07 PM   #24
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I think I decide to go with Marks DP and MP and a scooby sport muffler. Love the sound of that exauhst.
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Old 01-19-2002, 10:46 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by YeeHa
I was just curious why Turboxs did a 4" dp 3" mp and then a 2.5" muffler.
I saw an explanation of this in a different context, and it actually made a lot of sense: The exhaust gases cool down while they pass through the exhaust. Gases use up less volume (at the same pressure) when they are cooler, so you need less diameter farther back in the exhaust. This supposedly helps to keep the speed of the exhaust gases more constant while they flow through the exhaust. If the exhaust diameter stays the same , they would slow down as their temperature decreases.

I don't know if this is the reason why the TurboXS exhaust is built the way it is, but it sounded very logical to me.
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