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Old 10-08-2007, 01:01 AM   #1
Naito
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Default Legacy GT brake kit vs. 06 WRX brakes?

Is there any difference between these systems other than that the Legacy is a 2/1 pot setup and the WRX is a 4/2 pot setup?
Specifically I'm looking at the Legacy GT front and rear brake kits from here:
http://www.subaruwrxparts.com/04rs-braking.html

I'm looking to upgrade the brakes in my 06 2.5i, worried about overheating stock brakes on track when I get stickier tires and pads. I'm already running Motul 5.1 brake fluid and have SS lines, and that helped enough last time I tracker that I don't really mind the stock brake feel now. I'm not so much worried about breaking the rotors or fade as I am about overheating the wheel bearings and other attached hardware near the brakes.

Since this is mainly a DD and only an occasional track car (3/4 times a summer?), my alternative cheaper option is to just get the RCE brake duct kit and leave it at that, but I'm thinking a better braking system can't ever hurt really. However, I don't want to end up spending a LOT on a set that will be a pain in the butt to find pads for. Ideally, if anyone knows a big brake kit that will fit under stock 16x6.5 rims that'd be great (and I know that's unlikely); if not, I do have a set of OEM Legacy GT B4 17x7 rims already that I can use. I'd just rather have them fit the 16s too so that I can use those rims for winter.

Thanks in advance.
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Old 10-08-2007, 02:02 AM   #2
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The Legacy GT rear rotors are larger than the WRX, but I don't know about the front. You would need 17" wheels for those, and the '06/'07 WRX 4 pots wont fit under the 16" 2.5i wheels without spacers either. Might as well put on those B4 wheels
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Old 10-08-2007, 10:02 AM   #3
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I have LGT brakes front and back on my WRX. You will need 17" wheels for sure. I got my fronts for $36 each for the calipers/pads/brackets (junkyard, Tribecca calipers are the same as LGT) the rotors were $65 each from Subaru. The vented rears I got from a member here for $150 or so. The front rotors are a smidgen smaller in Diameter than the STI rotors but, the same 30mm thickness.

It's a VERY good upgrade. I've been to the track several times with them and even with no additonal venting, they were exactly the same the whole time I was on track, no fading, no pulsing, just perfect braking from 100+ MPH many times. It's probably the best mod you can do to your WRX. I do have a good set of pads on them. Carbotech XP10's.
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Old 10-08-2007, 10:36 AM   #4
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So if you were doing the brake upgrade again, would you go with the LGT brakes or the 06 WRX setup? are there any real advantages either way? I'm thinking the LGT route will probably be cheaper than going the 4/2pot setup the WRX has, with not a huge difference in feel nor braking power/heat capacity. Does it make more sense to just skip doing the brake ducts for now and just get the bigger brakes?

If you don't mind my asking, why did you decide to do the LGT brakes rather than the Subaru 4/2pot WRX setup most people seem to do?

Also, are the WRX 4/2s heavier, or the LGT setup? How big a difference?

How are the XP10s? I'm getting Bobcats for DD use and plan to get XP10s or XP12s for track.

Last edited by Naito; 10-08-2007 at 11:00 AM.
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Old 10-08-2007, 11:33 AM   #5
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I don't consider the 06 upgrade to be more than bling. For DD, the 4 pots certainly look prettier but, the rotors are pretty much the same as WRX rotors which means they're under-sized for any heavy duty usage. I believe they're 24 mm thick versus the STI/LGT 30 mm thick. The LGT rears are vented too. I didn't think that mattered much but, when I was out on track last week, I was surprised at how hot the rears got. I wanted STI performing brakes without the STI $300+ dollar rotor costs.

Weight is the one downside of the LGT brake upgrade, they're heavy. In some ways that's good, the rotors have alot of thermal mass. In others it's not. The calipers are pretty damn heavy. I don't doubt that the 4 pots are lighter.

When I run on track, I turn off ABS, the XP10's are great on track. They never fade and because the brakes really aren't getting that hot, they don't wear out very quickly. You know you've overheated a carbotech pad when you see accelerated wear. They still work but, you might go through 1/2 a pad in one day. If I was running R-comp tires, I might try the XP12's but, really with the large brakes, I suspect they're overkill. If I was running the 06 brakes, I'd probably start with venting and XP12's. I still have my dust shields on the front. In the rear, I had to remove them to fit the larger rotors.
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Old 10-08-2007, 12:07 PM   #6
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The rotor mass is pretty unavoidable probably, and as you said it's a good thing, but I'm surprised the calipers are that heavy too. I can't afford to spring for lightweight rims already, so getting lots of extra unsprung weight isn't exactly on my list of "wants" lol. At least it's not rotating mass! Still sounds like this will be a cheaper and more effective option than going with the 06 4 pots.

do I have to worry about my master cylinder being too small or anything else to do this upgrade?

Thanks so much for all the information so far btw.
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Old 10-08-2007, 01:12 PM   #7
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I didn't change anything with the MC. From my research, it looks like piston diameter in the WRX MC is larger than on the LGT MC.

The reasons the calipers are so heavy is that their construction is heavy duty. They're designed not to bend under heavy braking. You know, some calipers flex when they're being used heavily. The re-enforcement ribs on the LGT calipers suggest they won't flex like a lesser caliper. The brake feel of these calipers is very good.
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Old 10-08-2007, 01:23 PM   #8
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Mine's a 2.5i, not a WRX
According to the service manual, my 2.5i's "effective diameter" is 26.99mm vs. 25.4mm for the WRX (I don't know why the WRX is smaller). That woudln't make enough of a difference would it?
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Old 10-08-2007, 02:54 PM   #9
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I don't have an answer. Typically I assume a larger diameter piston is better but, have nothing really to back it up. You don't have a proportioning valve do you? I think my 03 is one of the last years to get a proportioning valve. I'm not sure it matters though.
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Old 10-08-2007, 03:53 PM   #10
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No I don't have a proportioning valve, I've got EBD.
this is sounding like it's a good route to go for brake upgrades, now to see if anyone is selling them used. Know anyone?
alternatively, know if there's any place to buy them besides the site I posted and SubaruGenuineParts?
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Old 10-08-2007, 04:02 PM   #11
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Well, I got mine from a Junk yard.

http://www.mandmautosalvage.com/

I called them, they didn't have LGT but, did have Tribeca. They had them to my door the next day.
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Old 10-08-2007, 05:45 PM   #12
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Is this a particular LGT year and up that has bigger brakes than wrx's or all of them? My girlfriend has a 98 LGT and we changed her pads last night. The rotors didn't look any bigger than mine, and the calipers looked the exact same.
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Old 10-08-2007, 06:04 PM   #13
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05+ LGT's have the large brakes.
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Old 10-08-2007, 06:09 PM   #14
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LBK.

http://www.tceperformanceproducts.co...s.pl?record=19

Sub in the 12.2" rotors rather then the 12.0 for 15" wheels.

Lighter total weight, directional rotors, four pot performance. BP10 pads for street, Polymatix B compound for track day. Five minute change.

All for another $300 and include hoses and a second set of (B?) pads free.
*Available in red if you must.
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Old 10-08-2007, 08:32 PM   #15
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What do replacement rotors cost? They don't seem much if any better than the WRX 4 pots.

The "TCE/Wilwood Comp kit" looks like a real upgrade though. $2000.
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Old 10-08-2007, 11:21 PM   #16
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Replacement rotors- about $119ea.
You expecting to wear them out real fast? LOL!

Remember the criteria above: DD, occasional track use, don't want to spend a lot...blah, blah, blah. He already knows he can spend (and get) way more if he wants. I'm just offering the fertile middle ground on that one.

WRX Comp kit- it's going to be quite the kit. And market priced for what it is. I'm hoping to have some test fit pics by the end of the month.
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Old 10-09-2007, 12:11 AM   #17
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I assume a new set of rotors every year. Sometime more often depending on number of track events. I often carry spares too though, I haven't had to with the LGT brakes so far.

$119 is a reasonable price. I was thinking it would be a crazy price like the DBA's or stock STI price.
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Old 10-09-2007, 09:21 AM   #18
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That's an interesting option.

Advantages: fits under 16x6.5 rims, 4pots AND comes in NOT red
Disadvantage: rotor thickness same as WRX, and price

am I missing anything?

What kinds of brake pads will fit on these? I've been leaning towards a Carbotech set for a while now (a set for DD and a set for track), so I'd want to know if I can get CT pads for these brakes as well.

Also, I already have SS brake lines and upgraded fluid, will the same SS lines work? If they do, is it possible to reuse them, and then buy the remaining hardware? Yes I'm kinda pinching pennies here, but when you're on a tight budget, everything counts I assume these are just direct bolt-on replacements like the Legacy brakes?

The rotors are solid discs, not slotted or drilled right? (not a big fan of slotted or drilled)
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Old 10-09-2007, 11:27 AM   #19
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Yes NOT red is standard.

Price: more product value for added cost.

Rotor width:
Wider- No.
Larger OD- Yes.
Directional- Yes.
Increased swept area- Yes.
Lighter- Yes. (ring weight 9.6lbs)
BBK size- No. (intermediate size kit for oem wheel fit)

Pads for DP caliper include; A,B,E,BP10,and BP20. How many needed??!
http://www.tceperformanceproducts.com/pads.html
Cross ref to Hawk HB100.625 with minor mods for quick release.

Disc finish: Standard is slotted 36V GT rotor. Optional HD non slotted.

Hoses: Use the old ones if you can change out hose ends on braided hose. You would require two 45^ ends and fab time.
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Old 10-09-2007, 12:16 PM   #20
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The legacy GT upgeade intrigues me. I have pretty much fried my rotors and calipers from a few track days (yes using track pads). Think I am just making a little too much power for stock brake setup at this point. I have been looking at a 4pot setup but as mentioned above you don't get any increase in rotor size with those.

Theoretically wouldn't the LGT setup with the larger rotore proved much better cooling and a larger pad for more heat distribution than the 4 pot setup?

Looks like a pretty affordable setup too if you can source some take offs.
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Old 10-09-2007, 12:53 PM   #21
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Well, that's what I've been saying. I've managed to hit the track the last two weeks and should be going again Friday if I can find an inner tie rod end in time. There have been zero issues with these brakes on track.

I typically track a Civic but, it's broken at the moment. The front brakes get so hot on the Civic that the plastic hub centric rings the wheels originally had melted in the first session. I have the same kind of plastic hub centers on my WRX and they haven't melted. That tells me that the brakes on this WRX weighing 500 lbs more than my civic aren't getting nearly as hot on the same track running as hard as my civic. I come off the track and they're hot but, they're not THAT hot. There's no strain, there's no fade. There's just good brakes that stop you when you want them too.
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Old 10-09-2007, 01:06 PM   #22
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What brake lines did you use MasterKwan? Did you just reuse your existing ones or did you need new ones to fit the Legacy brakes?
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Old 10-09-2007, 01:23 PM   #23
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I used a set of WRX braided lines. The fronts fit fine. The rears, well they're not positioned in the saddles they normally provide for the brake lines. Apparently the legacy lines come in at a different angle than the impreza ones. I haven't had any problems with the back though I do check them from time to time.
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Old 10-09-2007, 02:44 PM   #24
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so it might be a good idea to get a set of braided Legacy lines for the rear, just for fitment's sake?
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Old 10-09-2007, 02:51 PM   #25
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I don't know. It depends. You have to know where the other end connects. Legacy lines might not fit at all. You'd need to look at a legacy, see where the lines route and see if that works on an Impreza.
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