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Old 10-08-2007, 04:39 PM   #1
drewwrxrogers
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Default How long can you expect the modded 2.5k to last?

I realize this will depend on many things. I just see a lot of people run a large turbo such as a 30r or 35r on the stock block and internals with the Sti. What about miles? Does this matter?

My problem is that I have a 03wrx with a 20g setup that spun a bearing. I also have a 04 Sti that is completly stock. Ron from axis said that he would take my 03wrx in as payment on a complete engine rebuild and turbo setup for the sti!! Around a 500whp setup for no cost except my broken wrx. I got a good deal on the Sti because I knew I would be building the engine and bought one with a lot of miles.
But now that all of this has happend I have considered skipping the engine build, bolting on a 35r kit with supporting mods, and keep both cars. Sell all the stock sti and aftermarket wrx parts, fix the wrx, and make it a track only car.

Its a hard choice. One crazy fast Sti with a motor I can count on.....or two cars, one that needs fixed, and one that is fast but could possible break at any time due to the high miles. What do you guys think? Will the stock sti block and internals hold up to that kind of abuse even with that kind of miles?
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Old 10-08-2007, 04:46 PM   #2
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its a crap shoot. some make it 30,000 miles mine went 2,000 miles.
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Old 10-08-2007, 04:52 PM   #3
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WOW, so what about all the guys on here that go all stock and never see any issues? Are they full of "crap" haha.
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Old 10-08-2007, 04:57 PM   #4
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mine already has 95k on it!!
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Old 10-08-2007, 05:52 PM   #5
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Im new to subarus but not to running off stock internals. First why do you need that kind of power?
I personally would go with the STi due to its drivetrain and strong tranny, much stronger than the wrx's.
unless you have a 2jz or 1jz or an rb25-26 dont run 500whp with expectancy to last on stock internals.... honestly what made you think it will last?
Those guys who go all stock do it just to see how long it will last. expect only a few thousand miles at the most.
and with the wrx, you will need a new tranny, new clutch flywheel, brakes, tires, exhaust, tune.... even with the sti you will need quite a bit of new stuff.
If your serious about that kind of power, you should be talking this over with a good tuning shop. Honestly this is at the level of hp where you need to do forged internals.
I suggest keeping the wrx after fixing it all the way to a 250hp dd, nice cool fun. then if you want to do your sti with huge amounts of hp go ahead. i would consider new internals for anything above 400chp. besides when you are going to yank out the engine for injectors ect, why not spend another 2k to get a reliable engine? its insurance my man... spend 2k or blow ur engine later on... 500awhp on stock internals is on borrowed time.
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Old 10-08-2007, 06:06 PM   #6
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My stock engine (STI) made it 40,000 plus running between 400 to 470whp... (depending on the map)

I am surprised it lasted that long.......
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Old 10-08-2007, 06:13 PM   #7
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My stock engine (STI) made it 40,000 plus running between 400 to 470whp... (depending on the map)

I am surprised it lasted that long.......
im guessing your engine wasnt 97k was it?
another problem with buying a used car for aftermarket is you have no idea what the engine has seen (oil starved, 87octane fuel instead of 91, seen hard driving, been boosted)
you might be able to get away with it for a dd and not running it hard, but for a racecar... yah that is almost exactly what aftermarket internals are ideal for.
You dont have to listen to me, but personally i would change out internals...
or you could focus on making a super light car with 375whp... that might be more reliable... and maybe cheaper?
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Old 10-08-2007, 06:56 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by drewwrxrogers View Post
WOW, so what about all the guys on here that go all stock and never see any issues? Are they full of "crap" haha.
not at all. maybe mine was not so great from the factory. i also think im a lot harder on my motor than most. it hits max boost and redline many times per day.
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Old 10-08-2007, 07:03 PM   #9
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not at all. maybe mine was not so great from the factory. i also think im a lot harder on my motor than most. it hits max boost and redline many times per day.
yeah that makes a difference... and if your making a car for raceing... well duh your gonna be going full speed all the time its running... hence the need for a strong engine... i dont understand how you could expect high miles for that much horsepower... this really isnt a super strong stock engine.... its pretty damn good but its no rb or jz.
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Old 10-08-2007, 07:09 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by 0to60 man View Post
Im new to subarus but not to running off stock internals. First why do you need that kind of power?
I personally would go with the STi due to its drivetrain and strong tranny, much stronger than the wrx's.
unless you have a 2jz or 1jz or an rb25-26 dont run 500whp with expectancy to last on stock internals.... honestly what made you think it will last?
Those guys who go all stock do it just to see how long it will last. expect only a few thousand miles at the most.
and with the wrx, you will need a new tranny, new clutch flywheel, brakes, tires, exhaust, tune.... even with the sti you will need quite a bit of new stuff.
If your serious about that kind of power, you should be talking this over with a good tuning shop. Honestly this is at the level of hp where you need to do forged internals.
I suggest keeping the wrx after fixing it all the way to a 250hp dd, nice cool fun. then if you want to do your sti with huge amounts of hp go ahead. i would consider new internals for anything above 400chp. besides when you are going to yank out the engine for injectors ect, why not spend another 2k to get a reliable engine? its insurance my man... spend 2k or blow ur engine later on... 500awhp on stock internals is on borrowed time.
I never would have thought you were new to subarus. First of all, a lot of what you just said is false. The only reason I posted here was to get some good ideas from some of the other specialist here. My 03 WRX was not stock at all. In fact it made 320whp with a tdo5h20g turbo and all supporting mods. I have a RA tranny in it as well as a lightweight flywheel and stage 2 clutch. Please dont coach me on Subarus.

You ask why I want that much power??? Ahh because I have worked my way up to that point and its the next step. Ron from Axis is one of the best out there and he does my builds and tunes. Do some searches newbie!!

Now....please, from some of you specialist out there with SUBARU knowledge, should I go ahead and get the motor built in my Sti as apossed to keeping the wrx? Or should I keep the Wrx and just hope my Sti motor doesnt pop?
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Old 10-08-2007, 07:50 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by drewwrxrogers View Post

Now....please, from some of you specialist out there with SUBARU knowledge, should I go ahead and get the motor built in my Sti as apossed to keeping the wrx? Or should I keep the Wrx and just hope my Sti motor doesnt pop?
build the motor. you stock one WILL pop for sure, you just wont know when.
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Old 10-08-2007, 07:53 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by 0to60 man View Post
im guessing your engine wasnt 97k was it?
another problem with buying a used car for aftermarket is you have no idea what the engine has seen (oil starved, 87octane fuel instead of 91, seen hard driving, been boosted)
you might be able to get away with it for a dd and not running it hard, but for a racecar... yah that is almost exactly what aftermarket internals are ideal for.
You dont have to listen to me, but personally i would change out internals...
or you could focus on making a super light car with 375whp... that might be more reliable... and maybe cheaper?
I bought mine brand new, modded it after it was broken in, about 1500 miles...

I would say between 40 and 50% of the time, I beat on it... (Limiter set to 8K, probably saw 6k every day... )

A lot of making it last is just what you said, taking care of it...
The other part is the tune....
I agree with you that it is best to replace the internals...
500 whp on a stock block is just asking for trouble...
I consider myself lucky that mine lasted as long as it did...
I haven't torn it down yet, but it now has two oil pumps...
One for the oiling system, and one that now pumps it out everywhere else...
I would assume the ring lands gave up on one of the cylinders...

I don't expect my next engine to stay together much longer that that either...
It will be fully built, and torn down as soon as it shows any signs that it needs gone thru...

Expecting a 500 whp 4 cylinder to last is just unrealistic in my opinion...
It is going to wear out...

It all comes down to the old saying...

If you're gonna play, you're gonna pay....
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Old 10-08-2007, 08:16 PM   #13
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I never would have thought you were new to subarus. First of all, a lot of what you just said is false. The only reason I posted here was to get some good ideas from some of the other specialist here. My 03 WRX was not stock at all. In fact it made 320whp with a tdo5h20g turbo and all supporting mods. I have a RA tranny in it as well as a lightweight flywheel and stage 2 clutch. Please dont coach me on Subarus.

You ask why I want that much power??? Ahh because I have worked my way up to that point and its the next step. Ron from Axis is one of the best out there and he does my builds and tunes. Do some searches newbie!!

Now....please, from some of you specialist out there with SUBARU knowledge, should I go ahead and get the motor built in my Sti as apossed to keeping the wrx? Or should I keep the Wrx and just hope my Sti motor doesnt pop?
newbie? i dont want to get into an argument about that, its just your opinion.
The question you asked is definantly one of those: "What do you think, even though ill still end up doing it my way" kinds of things. I gave you my opinion. If you think that I should know your whole subaru mod history before I post you are an arrogant fool. Seeing that you already have all that good stuff in your WRX would make me lean to saying trading it for a turbo would be a rip off. You dont have to listen to me but you could be a bit more courtasy of somone who has made some high hp cars.
Lets list the facts: WRX bad engine, good tranny other good mods.
Could keep that or trade it for only a turbo on an STi. Lets look at the value of the turbo and the car. I would say the car has more value sentimentally and physically. maybe part out ur wrx and use the money to pay for the turbo. If you are such an expert in subies (im not trying to be an ass here) you should easily be able to make a custom turbo kit yourself. I and my friend did for a 240sx with rb26det and we really didnt know what the **** we were doing. Then have aron tune it. thats what i would do probably.
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Old 10-08-2007, 08:18 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by drewwrxrogers View Post
I never would have thought you were new to subarus. First of all, a lot of what you just said is false. The only reason I posted here was to get some good ideas from some of the other specialist here. My 03 WRX was not stock at all. In fact it made 320whp with a tdo5h20g turbo and all supporting mods. I have a RA tranny in it as well as a lightweight flywheel and stage 2 clutch. Please dont coach me on Subarus.

You ask why I want that much power??? Ahh because I have worked my way up to that point and its the next step. Ron from Axis is one of the best out there and he does my builds and tunes. Do some searches newbie!!

Now....please, from some of you specialist out there with SUBARU knowledge, should I go ahead and get the motor built in my Sti as apossed to keeping the wrx? Or should I keep the Wrx and just hope my Sti motor doesnt pop?
newbie? i dont want to get into an argument about that, its just your opinion.
The question you asked is definantly one of those: "What do you think, even though ill still end up doing it my way" kinds of things. I gave you my opinion. If you think that I should know your whole subaru mod history before I post you are an arrogant fool. Seeing that you already have all that good stuff in your WRX would make me lean to saying trading it for a turbo would be a rip off. You dont have to listen to me but you could be a bit more courtasy of somone who has made some high hp cars.
Lets list the facts: WRX bad engine, good tranny other good mods.
Could keep that or trade it for only a turbo on an STi. Lets look at the value of the turbo and the car. I would say the car has more value sentimentally and physically. Decide what you care about more a turbo or your broke wrx.... then do what you feel is right. Only if YOU personally decide what to do will you feel ok.
maybe part out ur wrx and use the money to pay for the turbo. If you are such an expert in subies (im not trying to be an ass here) you should easily be able to make a custom turbo kit yourself. I and my friend did for a 240sx with rb26det and we really didnt know what the **** we were doing. Then have aron tune it. thats what i would do probably.
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Old 10-08-2007, 08:34 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by drewwrxrogers View Post
I realize this will depend on many things. I just see a lot of people run a large turbo such as a 30r or 35r on the stock block and internals with the Sti. What about miles? Does this matter?

My problem is that I have a 03wrx with a 20g setup that spun a bearing. I also have a 04 Sti that is completly stock. Ron from axis said that he would take my 03wrx in as payment on a complete engine rebuild and turbo setup for the sti!! Around a 500whp setup for no cost except my broken wrx. I got a good deal on the Sti because I knew I would be building the engine and bought one with a lot of miles.
But now that all of this has happend I have considered skipping the engine build, bolting on a 35r kit with supporting mods, and keep both cars. Sell all the stock sti and aftermarket wrx parts, fix the wrx, and make it a track only car.

Its a hard choice. One crazy fast Sti with a motor I can count on.....or two cars, one that needs fixed, and one that is fast but could possible break at any time due to the high miles. What do you guys think? Will the stock sti block and internals hold up to that kind of abuse even with that kind of miles?
......o boy .......please read the above quickly and carefully. You will notice that I would be giving Ron from axis (one of the most reputable tuners in Subaru) my 03 wrx with a poped motor for a COMPLETE ENGINE BUILD AND TURBO SETUP!!! Pauter rods, cosworth pistons, cams, valve springs, valve job, custom crank, and most likely a custom twin scroll turbo setup useing a custom up/down pipe and an EWG'ed 60-1 with a larger trim wheel!!! Were talking fuel system, turbo, clutch, exahust, ecu, tune, build, everything!!! Easily 12k worth of parts and mods. For most people it would be an automatic yes. But I have a lot of time, blood sweat and tears into that project and I would really like to make it a track car. Tear out the seats, roll cage it. Do a custom 42r kit with NOS ect. But that takes lots of time, money, and effort. All of wich will most likey go to my new baby girl and my wife!
I am only asking through this whore'd thread......@ what whp does the stock internal 2.5l USDM sti block become nimble and need internals replaced. Do some searches and see how many guys on these motors are getting unbeliveable WHP all stock and holding up. Im not leaning toward that choice......just looking at the facts...its been done many times. Just like guys running 11's on stock Sti turbos. WELCOME TO SUBARU!!!
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Old 10-08-2007, 09:34 PM   #16
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ill just throw another question in the mix.. how long do u think a built 2.5 (sleeves, pistons, rods etc) to last at similar power levels 500 whp.

I know in aus that ppl are getting problems with more than 18 psi and 220 kw atw with things going pop (i.e cylinder walls ovailing and pistons smashing)..
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Old 10-08-2007, 10:18 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tino View Post
ill just throw another question in the mix.. how long do u think a built 2.5 (sleeves, pistons, rods etc) to last at similar power levels 500 whp.

I know in aus that ppl are getting problems with more than 18 psi and 220 kw atw with things going pop (i.e cylinder walls ovailing and pistons smashing)..
whoa thats not good! i have seen a few s2000s doing that at only 350whp and thats normally because the shop who did it didnt quite machine the walls right, they went to close to the outer wall. So assuming that you can get a goood place to do it for you there shouldnt be any problems. But if it is incorrectly installed the engine can fail on first startup.
Oh and drewwrxrogers sorry bro i had been toking on the magic pipe a little too much today.... i didnt see that at all... But if you do have a daily driver then i would say go balls out man. Do it. you better have straight pipes on that puppy with plenty of vids if you do do it. I seem to be an ******* when i do hit it up.... ****, how am i going to explain why there are 2 packs of ready made bacon missing?
Alright, if you do go forged internals could i have your block? i could definatly use it down the road.
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Old 10-08-2007, 10:35 PM   #18
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sory bout double post but heres a viable solution:
Go to the classifieds and post up all the bits and pieces you can think of. Say that you are considering selling the parts. Have pple email you with prices. Tally up the prices. Find out how much the block ect everything you need will cost for the build up. Then find a reputable shop to assemble it and get a quote. Finally find out wether you can get even with makeing it your self or having a shop ect put it together. That way you can help the community as well. i really dont know the condition of your wrx so i couldnt say for sure but im betting you can get some decent cash by parting the car out. my buddy parted out a civic for money for a rebuild on another civic, and actually made a few thousand... which he probably spent on gas lol.
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Old 10-08-2007, 10:45 PM   #19
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^ My engine in the hands of Ron is not in any kind of danger. That I promise you. Ounce the build is done, 500whp will not have any problem wear and 650whp is very reachable. Internals are nothing more than a insurance policy.
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Old 10-09-2007, 01:17 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by drewwrxrogers View Post
...Internals are nothing more than a insurance policy.
That totally depends on how it's tuned and what type of abuse you subject it to. 350whp on a crappy tune, and lots of abuse, and the only thing you'll guarantee is that you wasted a lot of money.
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Old 10-09-2007, 01:23 AM   #21
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drew if you blow your engine... dont blame it on anyone except yourself and Ron. insurance? ok if thats what you want to call it, but no matter the circumstances after enough hard driving i garentee you that your engine will blow. Unless you use your car as a dyno whore dont expect it to last oem life span or even a 1/4 of it. Sorry dont mean to be rude just honest. Hook me up with a block when you do waste it! lol... as long as its free or just price of shiping i will take it.
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Old 10-09-2007, 10:21 AM   #22
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^wow, you must not have a very strong setup and this is like one of those " My car is slow and I wish I could get it built, but since I cant afford it and dont know anyone who can build and tune, il bitch about it on others threads"

Please stay off this thread 0-60! You have no knowledge of the product and you can not compare apples to oranges as far as engines go. DSM's I have built, subaru's I have built, and yes I have messed with a lexus and did the Supra swap like eveyone else. Totatly differnt worlds. A fully built 2.5 with 450whp is = to having a factory block with factory whp as far as wear and tear go. Simple as that.......mine is a daily driven car that races on a slim basis to boot. And if you say anything else please make sure to read carefull to avoid making yourself look like an idiot again. Thanks!
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Old 10-09-2007, 10:35 AM   #23
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Personally, I would have Ron fix the 03 WRX....make it your track car as you say. Then leave the STI as your daily driver.

As much as you think having a built motor means everything is good in the world and you will have no problems, that's not reality. Things go wrong, parts break, a vacuum lines comes off the wastegate and you spike to 40psi (personal experience), etc etc and you gave your WRX to Ron and now don't have a daily driver because the STI broke.

If I was you...I'd rebuild the WRX to make it a track car and then put stage 2 on the STI with a good tune. The WRX can break at will and the STI will be your reliable daily driver....or vice versa....de-mod the WRX to daily driver duty and make the STI a track car.
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Old 10-09-2007, 12:07 PM   #24
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Second option sounds better. Stronger platform to take the abuse, plus better gearing for the track (unless he's looking for drag).
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Old 10-17-2007, 11:02 PM   #25
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[quote=SloRice;19635963]Personally, I would have Ron fix the 03 WRX....make it your track car as you say. Then leave the STI as your daily driver.

a vacuum lines comes off the wastegate and you spike to 40psi (personal experience)

EWG!! HEHE. jk, to late anyways boys! My UR GT35R kit will be here in a couple days along with my UR FMIC KIT, external fuel pump, injectors, fuel rails, AP V2, Tenzo DC-6wheels, ect. The party has started haha.

Ron is gathering the parts together as we speak for the engine build. pistons, rods, cams, headwork, valvejob, springs, everything! FULLY BUILT BABY! 450whp on 93oct pumpgas and close to 600whp on RACEGAS.

daily driver and track car all in one nice little package. ROn and Jorge will do the tune. Street putt putt around tune will be fairly conservative and racegas will be insane!!!

Good luck with your setups and look for mine in the POWER BRAGING!!!!
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