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Old 10-11-2007, 07:11 PM   #1
BIGSKYWRX
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Default How about a ST* exhaust database in regards to the "clarification"

In light of the recent "clarification" it would be nice to have known combos that "work" ie no P0420 cel (and no defeat) even combos that don't might be helpful.

I tried moving the O2 sensor behind the 3rd oe cat (this is w/ a catless shorty) in hopes it might quell the P0420- it lasted a couple of days and then it lit up

Chris's combo - a Random cat in a shorty downpipe combined w/ a Random mid-pipe cat w/ the O2 sensor downstream of both cats appears that it will work ( I think he had over 2500 miles and several autox runs w/o any light) http://www.xcceleration.com/itemdetails.cfm83.htm

It would be nice to know if any of the catted downpipes on their own would work or even possibly some of the mid pipe catted pieces on their own- that would trim cost and possibly leave a pony or two on the table.

TIA

Mike
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Old 10-11-2007, 08:24 PM   #2
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Well I'm all for it. I'm moving into STX class for next season with my wagon.

So the 'clarification' (it's not a take-back *wink*) is going to stick? Is there real action in the works or just rumors of action? Any possibility of a re-clarification? I was really hoping there would be an ST* protest-fest at Nationals because now I'm more confused than before the clarification.
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Old 10-11-2007, 10:42 PM   #3
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(05 STi in STU)

I put on a stromung divorced wastegate downpipe and a mad dad catted midpipe with the o2 bung after the cat about a month ago, and haven't thrown a CEL yet.

It seems to make good power and it is a full 3" combo.

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Old 10-11-2007, 10:49 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianGT View Post
(05 STi in STU)

I put on a stromung divorced wastegate downpipe and a mad dad catted midpipe with the o2 bung after the cat about a month ago, and haven't thrown a CEL yet.

It seems to make good power and it is a full 3" combo.

--
Brian
What ECU management are you using? And just trying to clarify... any CEL code defeats?
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Old 10-11-2007, 11:19 PM   #5
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Brian- thanks. If one good cat would do the trick, this could make the clarification a little easier on a bunch of us
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Old 10-11-2007, 11:51 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 68Cadillac View Post
What ECU management are you using? And just trying to clarify... any CEL code defeats?
I have an access port v2, and have been running the stock base map to see if I will throw CELs.

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Old 10-12-2007, 01:52 AM   #7
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helix catted downpipe on the STI no cels or defeats.
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Old 10-12-2007, 09:29 AM   #8
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thank you sir that's good news indeed
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Old 10-12-2007, 09:46 AM   #9
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I think one of your big keys for this is going to be the "Are you REALLY sure that you have no defeats in your map?" for everyone who is using any non-stock ECU tuning, with the follow up question of "Have you used\borrowed a Tactrix cable and actually checked?". I know that Greg's car seemed to be a legal setup until we looked into his map and saw that his CELs were disabled even though the tune had been specifically requested to leave them in.

And I'd like to point out that the RX-8 STILL isn't competitive in STU so you should expect further takebacks in the class.
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Old 10-12-2007, 09:54 AM   #10
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good point, might be worth while knowing how long cel free as well


I know Cobb posted up a new STX map w/ no cel defeat, nit sure on a STU map- also there was some debate about the base map having the cel defeat or not- would definitely be worth checking into that

Phil- would delta dash show if there was a cel defeat? What exactly does the Tatrix cable show?
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Old 10-12-2007, 10:14 AM   #11
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Delta wouldn't show a thing from my understanding. With the Tactrix you can download the BIN file and look at the actual registers in the image to see if they are disabled or not. ECUExplorer\Enginuity let you see if they're set or not. This also lets you look at boost target and WGDC tables to see if your tune is ACTUALLY ST* legal.

Since I'm not an AP user and don't know all the details I may be wrong on this but I've been told that those registers are part of your basemap and not your realtime map. That means that you can no longer even think about having your ST* legal map as your realtime it's got to be your base map (ignoring the argument over whether it was ever legal to use it only as a realtime).
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Old 10-12-2007, 10:29 AM   #12
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Cobb catted DP. 20,000 miles without throwing a 420 and suddenly it threw one:furious

I drove 3000 miles to Kansas and back, and the CEL came on twice. I figured out that it only came on if I used the cruise control at very low revs. so I stopped doing that and it did not come on again.

Car was in a cat-ready condition for the actual race
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Old 10-12-2007, 11:53 AM   #13
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I have an APS turboback with the gigantic APS cat. I'm in a very similar situation as Max, the car is fine for months then it will randomly throw a P0420, usually cruising on the highway. (I stood over the shoulder of the tuner as he made the base map, so I know all the CELs are enabled)

James' 06 has the new CARB-certified Perrin double-cat downpipe, and the car has not thrown a CEL with it. (he got CELs with the Cobb that he previously had)

Last edited by Funky; 10-12-2007 at 11:58 AM.
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Old 10-12-2007, 11:55 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilC View Post
And I'd like to point out that the RX-8 STILL isn't competitive in STU so you should expect further takebacks in the class.
I still believe the car has some competition potential in STU, I just think we need a sample size greater than one in order to get a better idea whether that's true.
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Old 10-12-2007, 12:15 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilC View Post
Since I'm not an AP user and don't know all the details I may be wrong on this but I've been told that those registers are part of your basemap and not your realtime map. That means that you can no longer even think about having your ST* legal map as your realtime it's got to be your base map (ignoring the argument over whether it was ever legal to use it only as a realtime).
Yes, it is the basemap that can enable/disable CELs. The basemap must be STU legal, as well as the livemap (if any). In my case I have a STU base map, and a live map which is the same tune. (just as a way to make sure my 'street' live map is gone)
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Old 10-12-2007, 12:21 PM   #16
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I use the Cobb OEM basemap. I confirmed with Christian at Cobb that this map did contain any CEL defeats. Indeed, it is a mirror of the Subaru OEM map but with some added code that allows to to be flashed from the AP. Obviously, that is true since I threw a CEL!!

I then have a custom tuned realtime STU map, which basically has some more aggressive timing for 94 octane fuel.
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Old 10-12-2007, 02:40 PM   #17
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Interesting on the Cobb and the APS downpipes- that would be pretty tough luck if it decided to throw it at the wrong time

Just looked at the Perrin offering mentioned above- two cats certainly seem the "safer" option, but it sure would be nice to get it done w/ one.
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Old 10-12-2007, 03:31 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilC View Post
I think one of your big keys for this is going to be the "Are you REALLY sure that you have no defeats in your map?" for everyone who is using any non-stock ECU tuning, with the follow up question of "Have you used\borrowed a Tactrix cable and actually checked?". I know that Greg's car seemed to be a legal setup until we looked into his map and saw that his CELs were disabled even though the tune had been specifically requested to leave them in.

And I'd like to point out that the RX-8 STILL isn't competitive in STU so you should expect further takebacks in the class.
Very true, very true. You need to make sure there not checked if it is indeed a custom tune.

After Phil told me, I had them unchecked, logged 500 miles on a Cobb catted with no 420 code. I think a new o2 has more to do with it than anything. I also had a brand new EGT. I was however getting a random lean code, the car has 80,000 miles, finally changed the MAF and seemed to take care of it.

I will be staying in STX next year and because of that I will be looking for a more reliable set up. I'm going to weld a bigger hi-flo into the cobb downpipe also simulating the stock o2 location see if it's any more or less finicky.

The end result is you could put a cat on big enough for a dump truck and if the rear o2 didn't like it's posistion you're screwed.

For the record I was in ready state with no codes for Nats'. Much ado about nothing. I find it interesting that no one's looking for a solution to the egt (not that I have one, a solution that is). Everyone knows it could at any time trip on limit.

Great thread Big Sky. I will keep updating over the winter. Subscribed!

Greg

Last edited by mccanixx; 10-12-2007 at 03:40 PM.
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Old 10-12-2007, 04:13 PM   #19
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FWIW, a clever hacker could defeat the CELs in any number of ways, not just the main (and obvious) CEL switch map. At least I imagine all the major tools only support this.

There is no remotely foolproof or even reliable way to check this.

I'm sure the same is true for any number of other cars.

The rule is really unenforceable in my eyes.
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Old 10-12-2007, 04:55 PM   #20
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I don't think a protest committee would be concerned if your EGT sensor failed during an AutoX. It isn't like an O2 sensor - which is what they are using to determine legality. How do you check for a "ready-state"? I have a cable and a computer, but I only know how to read OBDII codes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mccanixx View Post
Very true, very true. You need to make sure there not checked if it is indeed a custom tune.

After Phil told me, I had them unchecked, logged 500 miles on a Cobb catted with no 420 code. I think a new o2 has more to do with it than anything. I also had a brand new EGT. I was however getting a random lean code, the car has 80,000 miles, finally changed the MAF and seemed to take care of it.

I will be staying in STX next year and because of that I will be looking for a more reliable set up. I'm going to weld a bigger hi-flo into the cobb downpipe also simulating the stock o2 location see if it's any more or less finicky.

The end result is you could put a cat on big enough for a dump truck and if the rear o2 didn't like it's posistion you're screwed.

For the record I was in ready state with no codes for Nats'. Much ado about nothing. I find it interesting that no one's looking for a solution to the egt (not that I have one, a solution that is). Everyone knows it could at any time trip on limit.

Great thread Big Sky. I will keep updating over the winter. Subscribed!

Greg
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Old 10-12-2007, 05:02 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreasedLightning View Post
I don't think a protest committee would be concerned if your EGT sensor failed during an AutoX. It isn't like an O2 sensor - which is what they are using to determine legality. How do you check for a "ready-state"? I have a cable and a computer, but I only know how to read OBDII codes.
I bought an Auto Tap program (from summit, the $199.00 version), which shows if you are ready/non-ready. One of the few expenses I incurred prior to nationals. Oh besides the transmission.


You would have to seperate the EGT from emissions monitoring. Which I don't think you can as it is linked to the OBDII. It still plays a part.

They are using the ODBII as legality, by letter at least. That's my interpretation.

my .02

Last edited by mccanixx; 10-13-2007 at 06:57 AM.
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Old 10-12-2007, 07:51 PM   #22
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Greg- will be looking forward to hearing how the "experiment" goes

which program did you purchase- Auto Tap lists several on their site- will this work w/ any OBDII connector?
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Old 10-13-2007, 01:45 AM   #23
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Sears carries Actron OBD scanners also

(or at least they used to...)
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Old 10-13-2007, 10:46 PM   #24
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basically the scanner gives a thumbs up or thumbs down on the "ready state"?
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Old 10-13-2007, 11:37 PM   #25
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My Actron tells you which OBD system monitors are ready or not ready.
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