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Old 01-17-2002, 09:27 PM   #1
subarugt
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Post Brake Pads Question

I know there has been a lot of discussion about upgrading the Legacy breaks the last couple of days. I was wondering what break pads to run considering that I want to stay in stock class next year for auto-x, so I want to keep the stock rotors. What would be a good compromise for regular driving and auto-x.

Thanks
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Old 01-17-2002, 11:21 PM   #2
Legacy777
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I've got a set of Axxis metal masters from primitive racing. I was a little hesitant at first, but Subie Gal gave them pretty high marks. After getting them broke in on the new rotors they work pretty well. They're not a set of 4-pots or carbon metallics, but they are not really noisey, they do spit brake dust, but pretty much any semi-metallic does. Cold braking is good, better then my previous carbon metallics I had. However they will not bring you down to stop from 100 as the carbons would That is to be expected.

They are reasonably priced, Paul Ekland has them on his site http://www.writerguy.com/primitive
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Old 01-18-2002, 04:14 AM   #3
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You spelled it right in the subject title, so why are you putting break (like I need a break for lunch) in the body text? Just wondering?!? Oh, and there have been TONS of brake discussions that refer to auto-x in the past. You can probably read all about them with a search. I know, I know... I hate the searches too, but there is SOOO much info out there about brakes for racing that you may get better answers from reading it all instead of having someone summarize...
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Old 01-18-2002, 08:24 AM   #4
subarugt
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Janik

Yes I am sorry about mispelling brake, but I have had a long week at work and hence the typo. I did a search last night and while there was a lot of discussion on pads and rotors, my specific question was not answered. I want to retain the stock rotors for now so that I can stay in stock class while auto-xing. I beleive that means that I can change the pads and the fluid, but not the rotors. I am not sure about the lines if they can be changed to SS. So I would like to know what pads will work well with the stock rotors and not destroy them real quick??

Thanks
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Old 01-18-2002, 09:33 AM   #5
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Talk to gtguy. He is selling two sets(f/r) of KVR CF pads for $80 a set. I use them and they are really good pads. The best part is they are totally quiet and spit very little dust.
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Old 01-20-2002, 08:32 PM   #6
remarcable
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The KVR pads are a great replacement for stock. They don't seem to have as good pedal feel as the metal masters, but they are quiet and I haven't noticed any dust. With the metal masters my wheels would be brownish black within two weeks of washing them. Oh god, the noise was horrible too. You know that car with really squeaky brakes that just pulled up next to you at the stop light? Yup, that was me.

SCREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE.

Anti-squeal compound didn't help.
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Old 01-20-2002, 10:32 PM   #7
Legacy777
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hmmmm, I really don't have any squealin problems. They do pump brake dust out.....but ya gotta wash the car more then once in 2 weeks marc

I did do away with the factory shims, I found they caused more noise then they were supposedly to help. CRC has some disc brake quieter. It's in a small tube, it's orangish red. The spray stuff doesn't work as well. If you apply it to the back of the pad, without shims, that should take care of any problems.......should is the key word
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Old 01-20-2002, 10:51 PM   #8
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The Metal Masters are just loud and dusty. I had a set and I would have to wash my car every other day to keep the front wheels clean. They were a major PITA. Plus the noise was worse than fingernails on a chalk board. But they did grip pretty good.
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Old 01-21-2002, 03:26 PM   #9
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My Legacy is running the Axxis Metal Masters w/ ss-brake lines... they seem good... they DO dust a fair amount. I have NO noise; only complaint is COLD weather braking, they don't stop for anything after beeing soaked, driven on highwy in rain without braking, or from a start after sitting in the snow on the mountains. Always have to remember to heat-em up a bit??? Guess this is normal... I'll be trying something different next round.
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Old 01-21-2002, 08:01 PM   #10
Legacy777
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snowone,

Hmm, I haven't seemed to notice that the pads are bad in the cold. They are actually pretty decent compared to the carbons I had.
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Old 01-21-2002, 11:22 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by legacy777
snowone,

Hmm, I haven't seemed to notice that the pads are bad in the cold. They are actually pretty decent compared to the carbons I had.
Oh, WORD? Yeah, I don't know... but after I spend time washing, spraying out my wheel wells and rims... and starting out after being parked in snow at the hill, or even driving for a long period in cold rain... I DEFINATELY have to heat them up, stand on them a bit to get them to bite.

Fairly sure it's the pads... though, like you say, others have had good luck w/ them, better in comparison to others in cold weather.

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Old 01-22-2002, 03:36 PM   #12
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Yeah, word up, G... Word to yo' mutha and all yo' dead homies...

Peace, I'm audi 5000... Hmmm, or should that be:

Peace, I'm subie 5000...



Sorry about teasing you, I just didn't think anyone used the word 'word' in everyday lingo except for the members of Cameo and maybe a few dance club ravers...
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Old 01-22-2002, 04:57 PM   #13
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I shopped around for better-than-stock pads last year, and in addition to the aformentioned examples I found a few other options. Unfortunately, I have since lost the data on all the options I found.

One option not yet, I think, mentioned is Cobb Tuning. They apparently sell pads that are not Axxis or KVR, but they wouldn't tell me who did make them. This was months ago, and their site still has no details. In fact the site says they haven't finished testing Legacy pads yet, but that isn't what they told me back then. Not exactly encouraging.

I just checked my old e-mail. It was July when they quoted me $95/axle for their Legacy GT pads, but they still aren't on their site.

Other options include; Mintex pads from SPD for $115 ( Front only ). Porterfield *might* have a pad in their R4-S compound which will work, but frankly, they wouldn't know a Legacy from a hole in the ground, so if you buy from them it'll be an experiment. Maybe $129/axle. As of last January, Carbotech had both Panther and 7266 compound for the front only. $109/axle. EBC can supply a front pad, I believe in their "Green" compound.

All of that information is based on my inquiries regarding my 2000 Legacy GT wagon ( 11.3" rear discs ). You may have better luck with the earlier GT stock brakes.

FWIW. I'm going to throw all this on a page and post the link here. Feel free to send me additional information if you find it.
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Old 01-22-2002, 05:17 PM   #14
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And another thing; you are correct that you can change the pads and fluid in SCCA Stock, but not the rotors ( or calipers, obviously ).

<strong>You</strong> cannot switch to SS lines, but I can with my '91 MR2. SS lines used to be legal, and are grandfathered for cars MY1991 and earlier. MY92+ must use stock brake lines.
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Old 01-22-2002, 05:26 PM   #15
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In regards to the Cobb tuning pads. There has been one case where the pads caused brake failure. You're probably asking how I know. They were used in conjuction with a set of X-drilled rotors on the track. As a street pad, the Cobb ones are great, but any sort of continued aggressive driving (ie:track) they will not work, as they are in the wrong heat range. Just thought I'd let you guys know.
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Old 01-22-2002, 05:57 PM   #16
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Can you elaborate on "caused brake failure" a bit? You seem to be implying terminal brake fade with your temperature comment.

I'm not defending those Cobb pads, since I've never used them; hell I don't even know what they are, since Cobb wouldn't tell me.

That said, damn near any pad, and especially any that are built for some street use, can be faded to the point of failure. I've personally cooked MetalMasters to the point where I had smoke pouring out of my wheel wells.

Doesn't mean they aren't good pads, just means I was asking too much from them.
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Old 01-22-2002, 06:26 PM   #17
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I have tried Mintex 1155, Mintex 1166 on a MY98 Legacy and Poterfield R4S, AP Racing Type ZC on MY00 Legacy.

I would say if you are doing mostly street driving and autox, then go w/ Poterfield Rs4 or Mintex 1155. Mintex1166 is more of a track pad which require some heating (not good at autox).

Mintex offers better stopping power than R4S, but it also tend to chew up the rotor. One set of 1155 will = one set of rotor.

Soon, I will put on the carbontech Panther+. I had these pads on my suzuki swift GT. This pad stops on par w/ MM1166, however, it require less heating. It is also more rotor friendly than Mintex.

panther+ is a very noisy pad though. It will squeek and grind time to time. It might not be the pad you want if you hate brake noise.

I don't believe in "economy" pads. I used KVR, metal master pads before and I wasn't quite please w/ the performance. These pads do offer a great value if you are looking for better "VALUE" (cost vs performance), but if you want more performance than I recommend something else.
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Old 01-22-2002, 06:38 PM   #18
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Any chance you have the Porterfield part numbers handy? When I talked to them, the only listing they had in their fitment book was for a "1997 Legacy turbo".

Or did you mean you used R4-S front and AP rear on the MY00?

Please advise, thanks.
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Old 01-30-2002, 11:15 AM   #19
hillman
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FYI, I just ordered Porterfield R4-S pads for my 2000 Legacy GT from stranoparts.com. Even if Porterfield can't figure what a Legacy is, Strano was apparently able to find the correct pads.

A bit less than $200 for all four.
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Old 01-30-2002, 01:41 PM   #20
Jason
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Quote:
Originally posted by hillman
Any chance you have the Porterfield part numbers handy? When I talked to them, the only listing they had in their fitment book was for a "1997 Legacy turbo".

Or did you mean you used R4-S front and AP rear on the MY00?

Please advise, thanks.
Both R4-S and AP are for the front.

Just mount the Panther plus pad on my Legacy. Initial bite for this pad is exetremely good, better than MM1155, AP, or R4S. But as the pad gets warm or used hard, it will emit grinding noise. Sounds pretty strange for a new set of pad.
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Old 01-30-2002, 01:47 PM   #21
Kucheto
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Question SPOMOTORSPORTS

I'm planning on upgading brakes too!!

Has anyone tryed the brake pads from

SPO MOTORSPORTS ?

They web site shows "Sport Carbon Fiber Brake Pads Front ".
I don't know if the price is for a pair, i guess so!

Just curious if they are any good! I need to get brake pads that work well when wet, its Oregon!!!

thanks,
nick
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Old 01-30-2002, 10:56 PM   #22
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hillman - finally found the pic of the Cobb pads. The follow set were used in a "driving school" setting. They weren't the correct compound for anything more than spirited street driving, and ended up destroying a set of rotors.



Kucheto - those pads that SPO sells are made by Eurorotor, and they don't work nearly as well as the other pads mentioned so far in this thread (not for fronts at least).
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Old 01-30-2002, 11:00 PM   #23
Legacy777
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GOOD GOD!!! those pads are destroyed!!! I can't imagine what they did to the rotors!!


They look like they've been run on cross-drilled rotors
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Old 01-30-2002, 11:20 PM   #24
HIHO
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Cross-drilled rotors won't make the pads look like that. I have them on all fours and my pads a totally smooth. I got mine pads and rotors from ION Performance Inc. That is just a crappy set of pads.
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Old 01-31-2002, 12:02 AM   #25
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Ferodo DS2500 sound like they might be right up your alley

look'em up
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