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Old 10-20-2007, 02:54 PM   #1
e-diggity
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Default How much weaker does powder coating

edit: i have forged rims.

im planning on powder coating my rims a different color but ive been told that doing so will make the rims not as strong since the rims will be put under such high heat. any one know if it will make much of a difference? a dangerous difference?
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Last edited by e-diggity; 10-21-2007 at 11:49 PM.
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Old 10-20-2007, 03:10 PM   #2
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Usually just forged rims have a problem with powdercoating.
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Old 10-20-2007, 04:02 PM   #3
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...there are several different methods and process used to 'powdercoat'......some REALLY not good for wheels of any kind.

paint/clearcoat is a better idea, I think
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Old 10-20-2007, 04:07 PM   #4
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I have powdercoated my past car's wheels and have never had a single problem.

Powdercoating and painting your wheels aren't even in the same ballpark.
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Old 10-20-2007, 04:15 PM   #5
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Yup, all those professional rim repair and refinisher companies are a menace to society (almost all of them offer powerdercoating btw).
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Old 10-20-2007, 04:27 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rougeben83 View Post
Yup, all those professional rim repair and refinisher companies are a menace to society (almost all of them offer powerdercoating btw).
.......and many of the GOOD companies KNOW what they are doing and do a proper job of it.

the temper of different aluminum alloys is VERY different and requires VERY different temperatures and soak times at differet temperatures to achieve desired results.....and the heating required for the powdercoat can be incorporated into the process

this is NOT for joblow powdercoater down the street.

this HAS been discussed at great length, here, in the past and the answeres will NOT change just 'cuz some bozo posts his bull****, here
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Old 10-20-2007, 04:28 PM   #7
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Powder coating ususally cures at about 325-350 degrees for about 10-15 minutes.

I would think you'd have to be at least north of 500 for any annealing etc. to take place in aluminum.


I'd vote for no effect...if I had to guess.
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Old 10-20-2007, 05:05 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Scotty View Post
.......and many of the GOOD companies KNOW what they are doing and do a proper job of it.

the temper of different aluminum alloys is VERY different and requires VERY different temperatures and soak times at differet temperatures to achieve desired results.....and the heating required for the powdercoat can be incorporated into the process

this is NOT for joblow powdercoater down the street.

this HAS been discussed at great length, here, in the past and the answeres will NOT change just 'cuz some bozo posts his bull****, here
haha, so you mean automatically go with the "NO DONT DO IT YOURE AN IDIOT AND WRECK YOUR CAR" when the previous discussions have stated that no one knows if the sub 400 degree powdercoat (which is what ANYONE that powdercoats rims uses) will actually weaken a NON-FORGED rim? Heck, there wasn't even 100% proof that it will cause failure on a forged rim because all it was was a bunch of engineers throwing a bunch of conjectures at one another.

No one has to date, shown an actual failed rim that can be directly linked to powdercoating that was done properly. And it has been a good 3-4 years since this question came up.

And have you talked to powdercoaters directly? All the ones I've talked to knows the setup to properly powdercoat rims. They've been doing it for years; even before NAStISOCk was invented. It's called ASKING QUESTIONS from experienced people that have actually done it; Not jumping straight to conclusions because of some hypotheticals people come up with on and internet forum.

PS; it's not just the heating temps that *may* cause failure; it's also the media they use to sandblast the thing that may cause stresses on the surface.

Again, you ask a powdercoater what their process is and how many rims have they done before.

Another, thing some rims come powdercoated straight from the factory. Going with a blanket statement that you shouldnt do it is short-sighted and ignores what the industry has actually been doing for years.
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Old 10-20-2007, 05:10 PM   #9
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Powdercoating has seem to have received a pretty bad name which is mostly from hearsay from one member to another who barely know what powdercoating is.

I have been dealing with powdercoaters the past 6 years, I think they know what they're doing...

So if you can afford it, powdercoat your rims and don't worry about the paint looking like **** after one tough winter haha
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Old 10-20-2007, 05:21 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rougeben83 View Post
haha, so you mean automatically go with the "NO DONT DO IT YOURE AN IDIOT AND WRECK YOUR CAR" when the previous discussions have stated that no one knows if the sub 400 degree powdercoat (which is what ANYONE that powdercoats rims uses) will actually weaken a NON-FORGED rim? Heck, there wasn't even 100% proof that it will cause failure on a forged rim because all it was was a bunch of engineers throwing a bunch of conjectures at one another.

No one has to date, shown an actual failed rim that can be directly linked to powdercoating that was done properly. And it has been a good 3-4 years since this question came up.

And have you talked to powdercoaters directly? All the ones I've talked to knows the setup to properly powdercoat rims. They've been doing it for years; even before NAStISOCk was invented. It's called ASKING QUESTIONS from experienced people that have actually done it; Not jumping straight to conclusions because of some hypotheticals people come up with on and internet forum.

PS; it's not just the heating temps that *may* cause failure; it's also the media they use to sandblast the thing that may cause stresses on the surface.

Again, you ask a powdercoater what their process is and how many rims have they done before.

Another, thing some rims come powdercoated straight from the factory. Going with a blanket statement that you shouldnt do it is short-sighted and ignores what the industry has actually been doing for years.


...it is posts like this that make me want to cry.....as the faulty logic employed is GLORIOUS
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Old 10-20-2007, 05:25 PM   #11
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Powdercoating my RS wheels is the best thing I've done to my car, I love em.

Brought an okay looking set of wheels back to looking brand new for less than $500 total. $200 for wheels, $250 for sandblast + powdercoat
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Old 10-20-2007, 05:39 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rougeben83 View Post
...when the previous discussions have stated that no one knows if the sub 400 degree powdercoat (which is what ANYONE that powdercoats rims uses) will actually weaken a NON-FORGED rim?
Really? I've had things powdercoated at 450. Were those guys doing it wrong? Because you said that all powdercoaters know what they're doing, but if they did it at a different temperature than what you said I guess they don't!

And I've posted pictures of failed Corvette and Mustang wheels in at least two of the 8 million "Is powdercoteing bad fo my rimz?" threads. Since, apparently, all powdercoaters know how to powdercoat wheels properly, I have to assume the failed wheels were done properly.

I've also posted info from an email I got from BBS in which they told me not to powdercoat my cast aluminum BBS wheels.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rougeben83 View Post
Heck, there wasn't even 100% proof that it will cause failure on a forged rim because all it was was a bunch of engineers throwing a bunch of conjectures at one another.
And Lord knows that when we're talking about metallurgy, the word of a metallurgist isn't worth a thing!

Quote:
Originally Posted by rougeben83 View Post
No one has to date, shown an actual failed rim that can be directly linked to powdercoating that was done properly. And it has been a good 3-4 years since this question came up.
Again, I've posted pictures or links to pictures on this website before when this discussion has come up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rougeben83 View Post
All the ones I've talked to knows the setup to properly powdercoat rims. They've been doing it for years; even before NAStISOCk was invented. It's called ASKING QUESTIONS from experienced people that have actually done it; Not jumping straight to conclusions because of some hypotheticals people come up with on and internet forum.
What is NAStISOCk?

How many powdercoaters are metallurgists? How many of them have destructively tested wheels that they've powdercoated? As Scott said, your argument has so many fundamental flaws in logic that I don't know why I'm even bothering to reply.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rougeben83 View Post
Again, you ask a powdercoater what their process is and how many rims have they done before.

Another, thing some rims come powdercoated straight from the factory. Going with a blanket statement that you shouldnt do it is short-sighted and ignores what the industry has actually been doing for years.
Except that if you actuallly knew how to read you'd see that Scott referred to the fact that wheel manufacturers account for the heat treating effect of the powdercoat process in the way they produce the wheels. Again, this has been discussed repeatedly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattD87 View Post
So if you can afford it, powdercoat your rims and don't worry about the paint looking like **** after one tough winter haha
Or find someone that knows how to paint properly. There are millions upon millions of painted OEM wheels on the roads that survive winter weather looking just fine. I had a set of UK WRX wheels repainted ~3 years ago and they still look as good as the day I had it done. I think the re-paint has held up better than the OEM paint did!

Pat Olsen
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Old 10-20-2007, 06:01 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Patrick Olsen View Post
And Lord knows that when we're talking about metallurgy, the word of a metallurgist isn't worth a thing!
sadly, that is generally the case around here... maybe it would be ok if you cryotreat the aluminum rims after powdercoating them (last comment dripping with sarcasm)

I would recommend against powdercoating anything aluminum which is forged for certain, then, in the absence of firsthand information on the alloy and temper of non-forged wheels, go with the manufacturers recommendation. This is one of those cases where "what's the worst thing that could happen" is pretty bad... it would sort of suck to have a wheel fail while driving...
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Old 10-20-2007, 07:17 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by DrD View Post
sadly, that is generally the case around here... maybe it would be ok if you cryotreat the aluminum rims after powdercoating them (last comment dripping with sarcasm)
DrD, you crack me up.

I agree with Scotty and some of the others who've posted here. I would be very cautious about making a decision to powdercoat aluminum wheels. Paint is a much better option and can be done well very easily/inexpensively with zero risk to structural integrity.
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Old 10-20-2007, 07:28 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Olsen View Post
Really? I've had things powdercoated at 450. Were those guys doing it wrong? Because you said that all powdercoaters know what they're doing, but if they did it at a different temperature than what you said I guess they don't!

And I've posted pictures of failed Corvette and Mustang wheels in at least two of the 8 million "Is powdercoteing bad fo my rimz?" threads. Since, apparently, all powdercoaters know how to powdercoat wheels properly, I have to assume the failed wheels were done properly.

I've also posted info from an email I got from BBS in which they told me not to powdercoat my cast aluminum BBS wheels.


And Lord knows that when we're talking about metallurgy, the word of a metallurgist isn't worth a thing!


Again, I've posted pictures or links to pictures on this website before when this discussion has come up.


What is NAStISOCk?

How many powdercoaters are metallurgists? How many of them have destructively tested wheels that they've powdercoated? As Scott said, your argument has so many fundamental flaws in logic that I don't know why I'm even bothering to reply.


Except that if you actuallly knew how to read you'd see that Scott referred to the fact that wheel manufacturers account for the heat treating effect of the powdercoat process in the way they produce the wheels. Again, this has been discussed repeatedly.


Or find someone that knows how to paint properly. There are millions upon millions of painted OEM wheels on the roads that survive winter weather looking just fine. I had a set of UK WRX wheels repainted ~3 years ago and they still look as good as the day I had it done. I think the re-paint has held up better than the OEM paint did!

Pat Olsen
Like I said Pat, speaking from personal experience all the powdercoaters I got quotes from describe the same process when it comes to automotive and motorcycle rims...sub 400 degree and a soft/medium media blast, glass bead (someone said don't use aluminum oxide or similar as the sharp edges can do more to damage the rim and cause failure than the actual baking process). A few places can even go down to below 300 depending on the color you choose (e.g. they can use a different formulation that cures at lower temps, but it's not offered on all colors/finishes). The only thing that changes is that it may take a little longer to cure. Maybe they've learned from trail and error from powdercoating rims in the past (like all those Camaro and Mustang wheels you posted)?

And most rim manufacturers don't recommend you to repair/refinish a rim AT ALL. It's more a matter of covering their legal butts, despite whatever they may say. (On a side note, BBS does use a powdercoat primer for their cast wheels...maybe that's why they don't want you do to do it because of potential issue with the 2nd heating)

Further, I said to ask the powdercoater if they have experience with powdercoating for this specific application. It doesn't hurt to ask the guys that's actually going to be doing the work how and what will be involved in the process, does it? Hell, I've found most of them enjoy talking about the work that they do, and are very open to questions, then again maybe I'm just a nice guy And if you've been a good NASIOC'er and done your homework, you'd have read all the threads about it and know if what they're saying will work or not.

And I suppose since they "aren't qualified" metallurgist, to automatically assume the worse and that theyre doing this to make a quick buck? Honestly, with the number of wheels that are being powdercoat as a whole nowadays...why would this practice be such a popular option for wheel finishing/repair if there are so "many failures" that you guys seem to be on about? I mean, engine parts and blocks (like aluminum blocks) are powdercoated as well, and there doesn't seem to be this same stigma about powdercoating those pieces than wheels.

I have my opinion, you have yours. Like I said, as long as the rim repair service/powdercoaters know the process specific for rims, I don't see the problem. Heck, I've had a rim repair company that does work for high-end dealerships (Porsche, Mercedes, etc.) actually suggest I go the powdercoating route instead of paint since it would be more cost effective.

Go fig.

PS there are worse acronyms for this place than NAStISOCk if you're so inclined to look

Last edited by rougeben83; 10-20-2007 at 07:55 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old 10-21-2007, 11:50 PM   #16
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i have forged rims. made a change. its actually the BBS RGR

Last edited by e-diggity; 10-21-2007 at 11:56 PM.
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