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Old 10-22-2007, 09:16 PM   #1
sc00ter
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Default Siping tires for winter....

I have 17" Rota Torques wrapped in these tires:







I had my previous tires "siped" at Discount tire for the winter and it made a noticeable traction difference in the snow. However, those were pretty general all season tires. These are obviously more performance oriented all seasons. I know ideally I should get winter tires to make it through the snow but as a college kid I am kinda stuck and unable to buy $400+ winter tires due to the car payment/rent I just payed.

The girlfriends dad thinks that if I get these siped it will drastically hurt performance (traction when turning).

Also keep in mind that I sold my stockers a few months back, so I can no longer turn to those.

Get them siped and run them all winter?

Leave them as they are as they should be fine in 2 feet of snow?

Go foraging for some cheap a$$ winter tires?



What do you guys think?

Siping: For those who don't know what "siping" is, it's when a place like Discount Tire makes a ton of little slits in your tread to allow for more traction.
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Last edited by sc00ter; 10-22-2007 at 09:27 PM.
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Old 10-22-2007, 11:05 PM   #2
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the generals already get alittle squirley because they don't really have large blocks. the blocks they do have are somewhat smaller than many UHP tires out there right now. it may help alittle but, they're gonna be even more squirley in the dry
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Old 10-22-2007, 11:07 PM   #3
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If you're willing to accept the degradation in dry performance that will come with the siping, knock yourself out.
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Old 10-22-2007, 11:15 PM   #4
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Most snow tires are siped as well, except it's part of the mold, rather than done at a shop. I'd say leave them as is and either pray or scrounge for some cheap winter tires.
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Old 10-23-2007, 09:09 AM   #5
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Dude, even the CHEAPEST winter tire would do better than that in the snow, the biggest thing is that winter tires stay SOFT in the cold, them things would be ROCKS and the siping would prolly destroy the tread as the compound would stay hard and possibly even break "possibly" You are in Denver, you NEED some snow tires... and depending on the size, there is NO reasion why you would spend 400$ on them...

What size? can you use steel wheels? can you get steel wheels? can you use 15" wheels??
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Old 10-23-2007, 09:19 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron'z 2.5RS View Post
Dude, even the CHEAPEST winter tire would do better than that in the snow, the biggest thing is that winter tires stay SOFT in the cold, them things would be ROCKS and the siping would prolly destroy the tread as the compound would stay hard and possibly even break "possibly" You are in Denver, you NEED some snow tires... and depending on the size, there is NO reasion why you would spend 400$ on them...

What size? can you use steel wheels? can you get steel wheels? can you use 15" wheels??
Ideally I would like to keep my 17x7.5's on there all winter. If I can find a nice cheap set of winter tires to throw on them That would be great.

It looks like siping these would just cause more harm then good. I will run these until I can get some decent winter tires. It would be smart to spring some of the little cash I have toward some winter tires to be safe, rather than risk it with these and end up paying thousands for damage repairs.

With that said; does anyone know of a good place to get nicely priced tires? Discount Tire is over priced, I will check out tirerack.


Thanks for the advice guys.
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Old 10-23-2007, 09:21 AM   #7
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I would not spend good money on a quality tire only to have some dude at a tire shop hack it to hell with some machine. Put that siping money towards a set of winter tires or just leave it alone.
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Old 10-23-2007, 01:15 PM   #8
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slice up the tread elements on a tire in an attempt to make it do what it is not designed to do ... that sounds like a fantastic idea ...
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Old 10-23-2007, 01:22 PM   #9
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Damn Luke, sounds like you've been hanging around here a little too long ....

Siping CAN work in some circumstance (we are not allowed to add siping or 'tractionize' our tires in my street tire ice racing class) but it would be a bad idea for you.

All season will react better, because their rubber compound in meant to stay somewhat pliable in the cold. Summer only rubber in dangerous in the cold, even on a dry day because it will be hard as hell until it heats up. If you've ever done a track event in the fall in a Northern state, you get an idea of the extreme difference in available grip from a cold tire to hot tire on a dry cold day.
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Old 10-23-2007, 02:51 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
slice up the tread elements on a tire in an attempt to make it do what it is not designed to do ... that sounds like a fantastic idea ...

A simple "Come on over to tirerack and we will help you out" would have sounded much better for business sense.

What do you guys think of these:

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....e1=yes&place=0

Last edited by sc00ter; 10-23-2007 at 03:01 PM.
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Old 10-23-2007, 03:50 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sc00ter View Post
A simple "Come on over to tirerack and we will help you out" would have sounded much better for business sense.

What do you guys think of these:

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....e1=yes&place=0
ANY Blizzak is an exceptional tire in the snow, price wise not so much... They get chewed up real quick on dry pavement as well...

Take a look at these... http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....ireModel=M%2BS

I own them now, and while they aren't a Blizzak, they do well in comparison.. not so much on the ice(they can be studded though..), more of a deep snow tire, but STILL better than a siped summer tire and STILL better than a A/S tire...

I don't think there is a fitment for you, best i saw was a 235/55-17 but for 86 per... if you could get cheap 16's you would be golden at like 60-70$ a tire...
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Old 10-23-2007, 03:56 PM   #12
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I would avoid the Winterforce if you live some where with paving and plowed roads...I love them for ice racing, but they are not a enjoyable tire to drive on the street.
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Old 10-23-2007, 04:17 PM   #13
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+1 mainly due to noise, but if you're on a budget, it's better than all-seasons in snow from a performance and safety standpoint.

Last edited by rougeben83; 10-23-2007 at 05:04 PM.
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Old 10-23-2007, 05:03 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad W View Post
I would avoid the Winterforce if you live some where with paving and plowed roads...I love them for ice racing, but they are not a enjoyable tire to drive on the street.
They are MUCH betterthan say a Blizzak WS-50... talk about gumballz....

I'd take the WF over the BZ anyday on the pavement... you gotta put some pressure in them...

ANY snow tire on the pavement sux though...
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Old 10-23-2007, 05:12 PM   #15
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Interesting...to throw some confusion into this thread, I'm going have completely disagree with you and say that when I switched from the ws-50 to the winterforce, I became more competitive on the track (ok, lake) and had less fun getting there.
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Old 10-23-2007, 06:00 PM   #16
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To the OP. . .I don't know much about siping. To be honest, this is the first I've heard of it. Personally, if I could save up and buy a set of winter tires, that's what I would do. I would be worried that the siping would eventually weaken the integrity of the tire, then you'd have to buy 2 sets next year. Just seems safer and more economical. I think you could find good winter tires and get a set for $300, mounted. . .Probably
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Old 10-23-2007, 06:26 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayden View Post
To the OP. . .I don't know much about siping. To be honest, this is the first I've heard of it. Personally, if I could save up and buy a set of winter tires, that's what I would do. I would be worried that the siping would eventually weaken the integrity of the tire, then you'd have to buy 2 sets next year. Just seems safer and more economical. I think you could find good winter tires and get a set for $300, mounted. . .Probably
Well I've heard of it being done, but it was mostly on mudder/offroad tires that the owners wanted to use on the roads as well; the sipping helps with the big rubber knobs' ability to disperse water on a smooth surface better.

Don't know if anyone still does it on a regular street tire nowadays though...
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Old 10-23-2007, 06:42 PM   #18
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If money is so super tight just buy another set of stockers with 92's or some crap tire on them. They'll work for the winter, won't kill your performance tires and you can resell them after the winter for what you bought them for...that way you can afford REAL winter tires next year.

I understand the pain on having to buy winter tires and whatnot. I just dropped $1300 on my wheel tires for winter
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Old 10-24-2007, 07:33 AM   #19
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Old 10-24-2007, 09:08 AM   #20
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sipes designed into a tire are 1 thing but, slicing a tire up after the fact increases 1 thing .... tire shop profits ....

the imperical data usually quoted is based off of luggage handling vehicles using solid rubber, slick tires at O'hare airport in Chicago which do benefit from the siping since they do not have any voids in the first place .....
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Old 10-24-2007, 09:15 AM   #21
Aaron'z 2.5RS
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Interesting...to throw some confusion into this thread, I'm going have completely disagree with you and say that when I switched from the ws-50 to the winterforce, I became more competitive on the track (ok, lake) and had less fun getting there.
No problem... My expierence is just the oppisite for some odd reasion though... I would think that the WS-50 would be MORE competitive on the lake, unless you had the WF's studded and that's a different story all together..

I always felt my 50's were sooooooo soft even with them pressured up, the tread was like silly puddy... where the WF were more stiff, not by much, but better in that regard to the 50... hmmm
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Old 10-24-2007, 09:17 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daishi00 View Post
If money is so super tight just buy another set of stockers with 92's or some crap tire on them. They'll work for the winter, won't kill your performance tires and you can resell them after the winter for what you bought them for...that way you can afford REAL winter tires next year.

I understand the pain on having to buy winter tires and whatnot. I just dropped $1300 on my wheel tires for winter
Ahhh, so you aRE still hangin around....

Personally man, I would recommend a 92 to anyone for anything... they were made from ground devil spawn...

why would anyone want to trust there car and there life to a sub-par tire? Winter tires are CHEAP in comparison to an accident or worse yet, hospital time... or worse yet DEATH...
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Old 10-24-2007, 09:20 AM   #23
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The thing about non-studded racing is that you drive the traction, not the line. That means that you attack the edges of the course where there is slush and snow. I think the more 3-D tread pattern of the Winter Force was able to chew through this much better.
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Old 10-24-2007, 09:21 AM   #24
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Now, i would TOTALLY agree with you there... they DO, do real well in the slush...
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Old 10-24-2007, 09:37 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by mikeythejew View Post
Green Diamond tires have "micro particles" that give you amazing grip on ice. Not as good as studs, but close. There are a few other more main stream brands that have the same thing. Toyo GO2's and Toyo Garit KX's for example.

Green Diamond takes old tires and re-molds them with the micro-particle tread. While recycling old tires is environmentally freindly, there is the possibility that the quality of the tires isn't up to snuff. As far as I can see they don't even advertize what the speed-rating and load-rating are on their tires.
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